I’m sure you would. What do you think the odds of being able to play like that and win the World Cup are?
The Gareth SouthGOAT Appreciation Club ft. no fun at all
- Thread starter Snowjoe
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Oh well I'm not allowed to think about winning the tournament or i'd be called arrogant so I'm just looking forward to the next game.
I hope so. I backed France to win it.
You can literally smell the bitterness through the screen after last night. I've never smelt anything so good.
But yet you already mentioned the next three games. Such sensitive souls England fans are. You can say you don’t want to answer the question.
You're the one coming across as bitter here.
In Moscow 2008 were you telling other Utd fans to calm down because we technically hadn't beaten Chelsea?
And I don't think we'll win the World Cup by the way. Even so, this tournament has been a good one for England.
We’re enjoying a competition for once and people just don’t like it
We also did beat Colombia that’s why they call it winning on penalties.
We also did beat Colombia that’s why they call it winning on penalties.
You keep saying these things it seems. Is thinking England didn’t play well and need to improve to win it bitterness now? That’s the sensitivity I’m talking about. How many posts have you called somebody bitter now?
Why would I have done that? The competition was over and we’d won it. England didn’t win the World Cup last night and the reality is they haven’t had to play well to get where they have. Which is quite fortunate because barring a great opening twenty minutes against Tunisia they haven’t played that well.
It's absolutely blatant that there are people on here that don't like England and are annoyed that we're having a good tournament.
It's not about being over sensitive particularly, I disagreed with your idea that we failed to beat Colombia last night. We did beat Colombia.
England haven't underperformed for a few years.
And they aren't celebrating like they won the thing either. I promise you that if they did it would dwarf this celebration easily.
Why shouldn't they celebrate beating Colombia? The way this competition is going beating anyone is a cause for a celebration. And a large part of that for England is breaking the penalty hoodoo which has been a big deal in English football for years .
I’m sure there are. That doesn’t render any discussion about the performance in anything other than glowing terms to be bitterness.
You didn’t beat them in a game of football. And the performances in general will need to improve because you won’t be playing another Colombia. Saying that makes me bitter though obviously.
I’d say England will likely get to at least semi final with a good chance of the final if they play well. The draw has opened up for them to the point where they should get to the final because they have a striker that scores goals and they’ve been clever enough to make sure they get penalties at set pieces. The set pieces in general have been excellent up to last night. It’s comfortably England’s best hope.
I don't get why people are getting so hung up about England not playing well as if it lessens this achievement.
You don't have to play well to win tournaments. You just need to win and ride your luck at times.
A simple example is Germany in 2014. They didn't really play well in the early rounds and had it not been for Neur, would have gone out to Algeria in the last 16. Italy in 2006 got a dodgy 95th minute penalty to get out of jail against Australia,also in the last 16.
The point is simple. At this point in the competition it's all about wins.
It doesn’t lessen any achievement. Though is getting past the teams they have really an achievement? Personally I had England down to get to the quarters before it started. The draw has opened up to the extent that they have a real chance of getting to the final. I think they’ll need to play better than that though. That point is simple.
But when he plays for City, look at the style (pace) of his teammates and Man City tactics. England's players/speed/style are different and I'm not sure Sterling will have the same impact for England as a result.
I think Southgate has to choose a style and then the players to suit or the players and then a style to suit.
Personally, Id drop Alli ahead of Sterling. Think he's done very little attacking wise this tournament and doesn't have the positional sense/defensive ability to at least add something to the team.
Agreed Alli has been pretty disappointing aside from the first 20 mins against Tunisia. I'd play RLC over him.
We did though! We're going to have to agree to disagree on that
It's a minor point but I can assure you if we'd lost the shootout last night nobody would be saying we hadn't lost last night.
And yes I'd say winning our first knockout game in 12 years and winning our first shootout in 22 years is a big achievement. In the last two tournaments we'd been eliminated after 2 games and then been outplayed by Iceland in the round of 16.
I’m not sure why people are saying England should get to the final. They clearly have no idea about what Croatia have done in the tournament so far and who plays in their midfield.
Can anyone tell me how England are supposed to beat Croatia (if they both get through) with a midfield of Jordan Henderson all by himself against Modric, Rakitic and Brozovic?
Can anyone tell me how England are supposed to beat Croatia (if they both get through) with a midfield of Jordan Henderson all by himself against Modric, Rakitic and Brozovic?
We will.
I don’t see how previous under achievement makes something an achievement. So far I’d say England are where they should be and haven’t hit the heights they did in the first twenty minutes against Tunisia when they looked a very dangerous team.
Croatia were much worse than England against Denmark. If they play like that again then Russia could easily beat them. As a neutral I’d say there’s not much between them on balance.
They're not getting past Sweden.
That midfield almost lost against feckin Denmark.
No offense to any Danes.
England can change formations too.
The difference though is Denmark actually played with a midfield.
What’s Henderson going to do against those three while Alli and Lingard hang around the edge of the box all game and try to play the hero?
The only thing questionable about Southgate so far is this. When you play with a back three in the system England use then you desperately need the midfielders to actually be midfielders. Chelsea don’t stick Hazard and Willian in midfield with Kante. Wolves don’t put Helder Costa and Cavaliero as energetic box-to-box midfielders next to Ruben Neves.
That approach is extremely naive at best against ordinary midfields, and deadly when against one with Croatia’s midfielders.
Can they? I haven’t seen any proof of that, in fact Southgate is quite known by now for never actually changing his system.
If he does it for the first time ever then fair enough.
As an aside , did you guys see the way Wrighty, Gary and Lee Dixon celebrated in the ITV studio ? My mate turned to me and said “They’re just like us!” Was a top night after all.
Excellent post. I couldn't agree more!
Why on Earth is winning a big game of football and getting through to 3 games away from winning the World Cup not cause for celebration? What kind of weird ass sour typical on the internet negative thinking is that?
England fans haven't had much to celebrate for a long time. This is a big deal as far as football goes and there's far bigger teams already gone out because of lesser opposition. It's all part of the fun - enjoying it and getting giddy about what could happen. That's tournament football.
It's also nice just to enjoy football again, because being a United supporter in recent years has been a bit crap.
When we scored the winning penalty I celebrated like crazy but then I stopped and I was in a semi state of shock.
Almost felt as if I was dreaming.
It’s coming home...
What the feck is wrong with some of you people?
It’s not “trendy” or “cool” to hate on your National team. You just like like a try-hard bellend.
I bet a good portion (probably all), of the people hating on England in this thread celebrated like mad men (women), after beating Colombia; like I and everyone else did.
If you’re not English I can maybe understand it, but if you’re English get a fecking grip.
From a strictly United view point, imagine the confidence it will give our own players next season if England do well this tournament?
Support your national team, like every other nation that’s in the World Cup. The rest of the world’s buzzing, and you’re sat here like a boring, miserable twat.
It’s not “trendy” or “cool” to hate on your National team. You just like like a try-hard bellend.
I bet a good portion (probably all), of the people hating on England in this thread celebrated like mad men (women), after beating Colombia; like I and everyone else did.
If you’re not English I can maybe understand it, but if you’re English get a fecking grip.
From a strictly United view point, imagine the confidence it will give our own players next season if England do well this tournament?
Support your national team, like every other nation that’s in the World Cup. The rest of the world’s buzzing, and you’re sat here like a boring, miserable twat.
I understand people being positive about England manager but he’s hardly progressive or anything. The 3-5-2 seems very dull and uncreative most of the times. Only really worked against piss poor panama when everything went in. It’s very pragmatic with not top team but not entirely bad team either so Sweden will be interesting test if they can break the Sweden defense but then the real tests come. In contrary you can see top teams failing this year so the positivity has to be there
He's stopped picking people based on names and instead has tried to implement a new style of play. He also has drilled the team so they'd didn't shit themselves when it went to pens. For an England manager that is progressive.I understand people being positive about England manager but he’s hardly progressive or anything. The 3-5-2 seems very dull and uncreative most of the times. Only really worked against piss poor panama when everything went in. It’s very pragmatic with not top team but not entirely bad team either so Sweden will be interesting test if they can break the Sweden defense but then the real tests come. In contrary you can see top teams failing this year so the positivity has to be there
I understand people being positive about England manager but he’s hardly progressive or anything. The 3-5-2 seems very dull and uncreative most of the times. Only really worked against piss poor panama when everything went in. It’s very pragmatic with not top team but not entirely bad team either so Sweden will be interesting test if they can break the Sweden defense but then the real tests come. In contrary you can see top teams failing this year so the positivity has to be there
This England team is anything but dull. Actually were pretty decent to watch against Colombia, but it was the latter that decided not to play football and made the game somewhat dull.
Blaming defender for the way their goal scored is kinda dumb don't you think ?
Blame Sterling and Co for not capable of scoring from open play instead.
What I see is England defender comfortably pass the ball between the line despite opposition high pressing which won't happen if Smalling was one of them , He is very awkward on the ball and cause discomfort for everyone around, He needs to move his limb toward the direction just to pull 5 yard pass which weighted poorly as well. I am glad Southgate realize that he isn't footballer.
22 year's on he finally makes up for that penalty miss. He ruined my life that day as a child. I lost all interest in international football after that. But now he has rectified it with that penalty win. Regardless of it coming home or not, your alright Gareth.
Don't worry, there are also United supporters here who hate almost everything United do. These people have football expertise above even the likes of Jose Mourinho or Gareth Southgate so if They think the tactics are shit They're obviously right....In the land of make believe.
His biggest asset is that he resonates with the players and fans. He's a genuinely likeable guy.
How much of international management requires top-notch tactical work? It's a part-time job.
Fabio Capello is one of the most decorated managers at club level in the last thirty years yet his sole tournament was an absolute disaster. The Algeria 0-0 was a worse performance than Iceland for me - at least we scored against Iceland. The Algeria game's only highlight was Heskey's stepovers and the main talking point was Rooney's comments at full time. Says it all.
There is an argument to say that because of the way selections work, it is becoming more like a club environment in the sense that the regular players are being called up even if someone else outperforms them at club level. Chris Smalling for example didn't fit the manager's criteria and was left out long before the World Cup squad was announced. The manager had his ideas and implemented them whenever they got together. The idea that if you improve your level of performance, results will improve by extension.
But ultimately once you are at the tournament, people will swap performances for a good result. Thought I will say I have enjoyed watching England play because the ideas behind the football are what I've waited years to see: courageous, confident, exuberant. And maybe I'm underselling the coaching ability of Gareth Southgate, but how much is it down to the training ground work or the fact these young men are in an environment where they are together and comfortable wearing the shirt. Where their leader is someone they relate and thus respond to?
I will go back to Capello again. His CV doesn't deserve being put next to Gareth's, but as England manager he never had that positive relationship. He didn't speak English well, his methods were hugely successful for clubs but that's with day-to-day training. You don't have time as an international manager yet he was still regimented and headteacher like.
The feel-good factor is here with England again for the first time in a long while. I watched the Impossible Job documentary and Allardyce described himself as "the man of the people". I guess from his working class roots to England manager you can tie that link. But as a character and personality - he's marmite.
Gareth Southgate is much more of "the man of the people" because he's the type of character who carries out his responsibility with focus, diligence and respect. He has brought the pride back.
How much of international management requires top-notch tactical work? It's a part-time job.
Fabio Capello is one of the most decorated managers at club level in the last thirty years yet his sole tournament was an absolute disaster. The Algeria 0-0 was a worse performance than Iceland for me - at least we scored against Iceland. The Algeria game's only highlight was Heskey's stepovers and the main talking point was Rooney's comments at full time. Says it all.
There is an argument to say that because of the way selections work, it is becoming more like a club environment in the sense that the regular players are being called up even if someone else outperforms them at club level. Chris Smalling for example didn't fit the manager's criteria and was left out long before the World Cup squad was announced. The manager had his ideas and implemented them whenever they got together. The idea that if you improve your level of performance, results will improve by extension.
But ultimately once you are at the tournament, people will swap performances for a good result. Thought I will say I have enjoyed watching England play because the ideas behind the football are what I've waited years to see: courageous, confident, exuberant. And maybe I'm underselling the coaching ability of Gareth Southgate, but how much is it down to the training ground work or the fact these young men are in an environment where they are together and comfortable wearing the shirt. Where their leader is someone they relate and thus respond to?
I will go back to Capello again. His CV doesn't deserve being put next to Gareth's, but as England manager he never had that positive relationship. He didn't speak English well, his methods were hugely successful for clubs but that's with day-to-day training. You don't have time as an international manager yet he was still regimented and headteacher like.
The feel-good factor is here with England again for the first time in a long while. I watched the Impossible Job documentary and Allardyce described himself as "the man of the people". I guess from his working class roots to England manager you can tie that link. But as a character and personality - he's marmite.
Gareth Southgate is much more of "the man of the people" because he's the type of character who carries out his responsibility with focus, diligence and respect. He has brought the pride back.
I understand people being positive about England manager but he’s hardly progressive or anything. The 3-5-2 seems very dull and uncreative most of the times. Only really worked against piss poor panama when everything went in. It’s very pragmatic with not top team but not entirely bad team either so Sweden will be interesting test if they can break the Sweden defense but then the real tests come. In contrary you can see top teams failing this year so the positivity has to be there
It's definitely progressive. He has employed defenders who attempt to play football, only one midfielder with any real defensive responsibility (Henderson) and there's a clear identity in place. Past England teams were basically an assortment of big names shoehorned in to an 11. What Southgate has done is not groundbreaking or genius, but it is certainly progress from the likes of Hodgson who in crunch games against the likes of Uruguay decided that the game changing option was Ricky bloody Lambert.
It also worked vs Tunisia. Southgate can't be blamed for players missing a ton of easy chances. Second half was obviously pretty poor, but that is what happens when you completely waste your period of total dominance, the opposition will get a grip of themselves. You can't judge anything from the Belgium game, it was a completely rotated side in a dead rubber match which neither side really looked like they wanted the win. Colombia game was a typical knockout game against a half decent side who were playing very defensively and possess a number of physical players (Mina & Sanchez in particular) who can make it very difficult for any attacking side. They're not mugs, they topped a difficult group ahead of a Japan side which just gave Belgium a real fright, and likely were only beaten in their opening game due to the early sending off.
England weren't going to be cutting them open at will, no matter which formation or system Southgate went with. The fact is that this England team is lacking creativity badly, and that isn't down to the manager. He's doing his best to play to the squad's strengths. No manager can transform average players in to world beaters, especially not in International football where he barely gets any time to work with them. Our deep midfield options are basically Henderson & Dier, we have some decent attacking midfielders in Alli and Lingard but neither of them are particularly creative, they prefer to be scoring than creating. We will obviously struggle to break down Sweden, but it won't be down to the formation, it will be down to a lack of the personnel required. Open play will never be our strength against sides which sit back..our strength lies in the tournament's best striker up front and being dangerous from set pieces, and potentially against the stronger sides the likes of Sterling, Rashford, Vardy and Lingard will give us a powerful weapon on the break.