Neymar Jr | PSG | 2017/2018 performances

UDontMessWith24 said:
Add going out of a World Cup in Fellaini's back pocket to his resume. Looking at Brazil's last 2 WC winning teams tells the story. He's not Rivaldo, he's not Romario, and he's most definitely not Ronaldinho or Ronaldo. In their company he's filling water bottles and carrying equipment.
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The players you mention are 'greater players' from an historical perspective.

That said, in terms of talent and technical skills, I think he hasn't to be be jealous of Ronaldinho. Romario and Ronaldo are #9. Rivaldo is a greater player than Neymar obviously.

2018 was a unique opportunity to take power so of course, something is wrong with Neymar.

This year, it would have been more profitable to keep a low profile, be more humble-superstitious-discreet especially when an injury makes him in a position not to be at 100%.

Griezmann and M'bappé are not more talented but they are in a great position to win the World Cup: these 2 players are offensive but they have a healtier way of living football.

The perfect plan for Neymar should have been:

(1) 2017/18 I stay in Barcelona and let the media focused on Messi & co
(2) I win the World Cup and reverse the established order
(3) I join or acquire a new club like PSG after winning the World Cup

As a PSG fan, I'm extremely happy to see him in France but it was in his interest to stay in Barcelona last summer to be fully focused on the World Cup all the season with the following calendar:
(1) he starts well to gain confidence
(2) he takes his foot off the accelerator to be fully fresh in the summer and win it

Contrary to Lord @Enigma_87 , I don't think in terms of talent/leadership skills or understanding of the game but rather in terms of social behaviour.
 
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Infordin said:
Brazil’s midfield in 2002 was Gilberto Silva and Kleberson.

That was not a world class midfield by any stretch.
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Gilberto Silva and Kleberson was about equal to Casemiro and Paulinho.
Losing Casemiro would have been like trying to play with Juninho or Vampeta and Kleberson.
 
For the national team, he surpassed Kaka and Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho was fairly average for the NT overall excluding his 2002 WC. People remembered Barca Ronaldinho, he wasn’t that for Brazil.

Rivaldo, Romario and Ronaldo is a different bracket. Very few attacking players have been at that level for Brazil.
 
spwd said:
I don’t know if you’re joking or not but I don’t see anything in Divemar jr that those two don’t have.
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Look at how many goals Neymar has scored in his career and compare that to Hazard. Thats what you havent seen. They have both played 90 games for their country, Neymar has 57 goals to hazards 24.

lsd said:
Hazard is better and Mbappe has a higher ceiling as well .
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What is Hazard better than him at?

Mbappes ceiling we will have to wait and see.
 
Fenomeno9 said:
For the national team, he surpassed Kaka and Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho was fairly average for the NT overall excluding his 2002 WC. People remembered Barca Ronaldinho, he wasn’t that for Brazil.

Rivaldo, Romario and Ronaldo is a different bracket. Very few attacking players have been at that level for Brazil.
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Great post. Fully agrees here.

I was a big fan of Ronaldinho who was a former PSG player but I do prefer Neymar who is muccccchhhh moooorrree consistent: he doesn't 'choose' his games and wants to have an impact each week.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Gilberto Silva and Kleberson was about equal to Casemiro and Paulinho.
Losing Casemiro would have been like trying to play with Juninho or Vampeta and Kleberson.
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Fernandinho is about equal to Gilberto Silva. Casemiro is a tier above.
 
In one sentence, I would say I still consider him as one of the greatest talents in the history of the game but his communication skills (comedy, teammates, coach...) are a big burden that holds back his development.
 
For me, he was very underwhelming in this world cup. Tried showing off more than playing for the team. And of course, the constant diving and play acting ruined his image for a lot of people.

Tbf, they really missed Casemeiro yesterday. The fact that his replacement scored an own goal doesn't help either.
 
He will never win Ballon D'or with PSG, and he will never win Ballon D'or with Brazil.
 
As bad of a summer as he could've had. Perhaps he'll learn from it. Failure and criticism are better teachers than success. I'm not optimistic though - he seems like a bit of a spoiled brat surrounded by yes-men. It's a shame.
 
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Infordin said:
Fernandinho is about equal to Gilberto Silva. Casemiro is a tier above.
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Career wise maybe (actually no), but today he was well below Gilberto Silva's quality in 2002.
 
Am I imagining this or did Neymar actually get less mature after he joined PSG again ? He's acting like he did back in Brazil when he was a teenager.

Sure he still had his moments with Barca, but it wasn't THAT bad. Showed some great stuff in his final year there, especially his game against PSG.
 
Enigma_87 said:
He was, but still below both Messi and Ronaldo.

Peak or not he’s inferior to them, which is no shame as they are in a very elite tier.

He’s not as good as Dinho at his peak either. Rivaldo, Kaka - that tier.
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Not fit to lace Rivaldo's boots as far as I'm concerned.
 
Schneckerl said:
Am I imagining this or did Neymar actually get less mature after he joined PSG again ? He's acting like he did back in Brazil when he was a teenager.

Sure he still had his moments with Barca, but it wasn't THAT bad. Showed some great stuff in his final year there, especially his game against PSG.
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It's possible, as mad as it may sound he is probably the closest thing to a leader in the locker room which is baffling. Buffon won't be enough, they will have to bring a couple of veteran leaders to keep him and some of the younger players in check.
 
How is he going to react when Mbappe takes centre stage at PSG?
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Gilberto Silva and Kleberson was about equal to Casemiro and Paulinho.
Losing Casemiro would have been like trying to play with Juninho or Vampeta and Kleberson.
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Kleberson was shit and Gilberto Silva wasn't better than any of Casemiro, Paulinho or Fernandinho. Comparable with the last two and worse than Casemiro.
 
Now that's He's at PSG, the only things that could make him comparable to the likes of Messi and Ronaldo are his performances in the Champions League with PSG and in the World Cup with Brazil if He carries those teams. So far, He's done nothing spectacular. Doing well in Ligue 1 isn't impressive considering how the league isn't competitive.
 
Revan said:
Kleberson was shit and Gilberto Silva wasn't better than any of Casemiro, Paulinho or Fernandinho. Comparable with the last two and worse than Casemiro.
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Kleberson had a great WC just before we bought him, he was one of the players of the tournament.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Kleberson had a great WC just before we bought him, he was one of the players of the tournament.
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You can't have it both ways though. Players either are good or are not good. Kleberson wasn't a good player. He just played well in a functional team.

This absolving of any blame to top start (same thing happened with Messi) is becoming a bit tiring. When are we gonna start talking about how Neymar really wasn't that good (even in attack he was totally outshined by Coutinho) instead of blaming a perfectly competent midfield, and bigging up a worse midfield which was Brazil's in 2002?
 
Revan said:
You can't have it both ways though. Players either are good or are not good. Kleberson wasn't a good player. He just played well in a functional team.

This absolving of any blame to top start (same thing happened with Messi) is becoming a bit tiring. When are we gonna start talking about how Neymar really wasn't that good (even in attack he was totally outshined by Coutinho) instead of blaming a perfectly competent midfield, and bigging up a worse midfield which was Brazil's in 2002?
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This shouldn’t be aimed at me, I don’t think I’ve even commented on Neymar previously - just commentating that Kleberson excellent in that WC team.

Ref Neymar, clearly he wasn’t good enough, he has had plenty of the ball in the right areas, he didn’t perform as we might hope he would, but he wasn’t that bad - overshadowed by his pathetic and unsportsmanlike action.

He will probably break the Brazilian goal record, but won’t be one of the greats.
 
Neymar will forever living in shadow of Messi and Ronaldo, and in future Mbappe.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Not fit to lace Rivaldo's boots as far as I'm concerned.
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To me as well but so far he has consistency over him. In terms of peak level he’s not there yet - 02 WC is one of the best performaces from attacking player - something Neymar is way off at the moment.

Same for Barca he was individually a lot more important than Neymar in 15’.
 
Fenomeno9 said:
For the national team, he surpassed Kaka and Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho was fairly average for the NT overall excluding his 2002 WC. People remembered Barca Ronaldinho, he wasn’t that for Brazil.

Rivaldo, Romario and Ronaldo is a different bracket. Very few attacking players have been at that level for Brazil.
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Ecstatic said:
Great post. Fully agrees here.

I was a big fan of Ronaldinho who was a former PSG player but I do prefer Neymar who is muccccchhhh moooorrree consistent: he doesn't 'choose' his games and wants to have an impact each week.
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How does one put aside a world cup in terms of international performances and impact? the whole point is the competitions not friendless. Neymar hasn't won a single major honour with Brazil.
 
Ecstatic said:
Contrary to Lord @Enigma_87 , I don't think in terms of talent/leadership skills or understanding of the game but rather in terms of social behaviour.
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To me it’s the ego and attitude which sets him apart from the best, mate. He has the skills and talent in his locker but need to channel it in productive way.

I don’t hate him or something although he makes it difficult to like. Some of the criticism he suffers is indeed a bit OTT.
 
Watching him just makes me appreciate SAF & Ronaldo working together to stop all the unnecessary tricks and show boating he had in his earlier game - later becoming & efficient monster.

Neymar needs a manager like that - but I don't know if he has the mentality to put the team before himself; something that Ronaldo did early on - becoming better individually because of this.

As much as a team mate may look towards neymar to provide the extra quality to win games - when he doesn't - he becomes an easy player to target & to be disappointed in.

His diving is also an extension of his unnecessary flair & inability to so far to get the better of himself.
 
On his day he is an absolutely fantastic footballer with great trickery but his mentality is failing him at this moment.
 
Ali Dia said:
He’d have this club turned upside down in no time and even more fans against Jose. He’s talented but does he have the desire to kick on and become the best in the world? I have serious doubts at this stage.
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He doesn't even have to become the best player in the world. Just needs to cut out the nonsense, be consistent and play more functionally.
 
VorZakone said:
He doesn't even have to become the best player in the world. Just needs to cut out the nonsense, be consistent and play more functionally.
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He kind of does given the wages he’d be on and the circus that inevitably would follow. He’s not a prospect anymore.
He’s a very rich man. Does he have that desire? I don’t think so.
 
Stacks said:
How does one put aside a world cup in terms of international performances and impact? the whole point is the competitions not friendless. Neymar hasn't won a single major honour with Brazil.
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Zico ain’t win nothing either and he comfortably seen as at worst the 3rd or 4th best Brazilian of all time. Winning a World Cup isn’t the only criteria. Roque Jr isn’t a better defender than Thiago Silva because of it. Kaka won a World Cup that he had zero impact in winning.
 
Stacks said:
How does one put aside a world cup in terms of international performances and impact? the whole point is the competitions not friendless. Neymar hasn't won a single major honour with Brazil.
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Buffon, Ronaldo, Bergomi, Tigana, Tresor, Griezmann... never won the Champions League
Zico, Cruyjff, Luis Figo, Messi, Seeler, Nordahl, Neeskens, Krol, Puskas, Hidegkuti, Kocsis... never won a significant trophy with the NT

Does it mean their performances are irrelevant?
 
Stacks said:
How does one put aside a world cup in terms of international performances and impact? the whole point is the competitions not friendless. Neymar hasn't won a single major honour with Brazil.
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The 2002 World Cup was mostly Ronaldo/Rivaldo.

In 2006 when it was Ronaldinho's turn to lead Brazil after arguably his the best club season of his career he was very disappointing (worse than how Neymar played) and that team was really, really stacked and overwhelming favorite for the WC title- biggest since Brazil '82.
 
Fenomeno9 said:
Zico ain’t win nothing either and he comfortably seen as at worst the 3rd or 4th best Brazilian of all time. Winning a World Cup isn’t the only criteria. Roque Jr isn’t a better defender than Thiago Silva because of it. Kaka won a World Cup that he had zero impact in winning.
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Zico wasn't a crying cheating show pony though.

Neymar has achieved the impossible he has turned people off having Brazil as their second team

The past two world cup I and many others have enjoyed watching Brazil fail miserably.

That would have been unheard off before
 
I think we all started to compare him with Messi and Ronaldo too early when in reality it's questionable if he can even be compared to Henry. Henry was toying with english defences the moment he arrived at Arsenal while Neymar is 26 and still doesn't anything comparable to Henry 2001-05. as long as he's playing for PSG, he should never be mentioned with Ibrahimovic and Henry in the same sentence, let alone goats like Ronaldo and Messi.
 
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