How good was Paul Scholes?



So is who the best player he played against?

"Thierry [Henry] was one of the best players I've played against," he says, "But in terms of football, the best, like genius, was probably Paul Scholes. When I was at Tottenham and Portsmouth, when we played with two forwards, I always thought that if you play with two forwards against Man United it's difficult because Scholes could dictate a game.

"So you have to be disciplined and think, 'we're not going to get much of the ball today, but one of the forwards has got to drop in on Scholes and just try and stop him getting a rhythm and stop him getting the ball.' If he gets the ball, you've got no chance.

"I remember him doing it at Old Trafford and, literally, you couldn't get anywhere near him. His passing was just unbelievable. I was like, 'this guy is just on another level, he's seeing things; he's two steps ahead of everyone on the football pitch.' The goals that he scored too, but just all-round, his play was genius."
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Scored some cracking goals... Bradford, villa and Barcelona.

They are the goals everyone remembers but my fav goal was against Sunderland at OT, think was around 2001 season, Giggs passed to him at edge of box and he skelped it right into the top bin at the Stretford end.

Nearly burst the net.
 
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This is one of the better Scholes youtube compilations, since most of them concentrate on post-2006 footage. This is late 90s/early 2000s Scholesy:

 
Paul Scholes' footballing intelligence was something players can't learn - it's innate. He was unbelievably good, continually under-rated during his time because he never did the self-promotion or fell over himself to grab endorsements unlike some other players. I'm not referring to Becks here.

For such a European-type player in terms of ball skills, Scholesy was an unassuming English lad. He could have lined his pockets so much more even though he didn't have Becks' face and physique.

Scholesy also had that edge to him - he was a winner and a surprisingly fiery player who kept it under control most of the time. I always remember his vision - he and Becks could thread the ball through in a congested space and could see openings way ahead of time.
 
68Guns said:
When players have hung up their boots and fans reminisce about them they tend to forget the poor games and barren spells.
Scholes was a good little midfielder but not a world star or such like. Had a decent pass and shot for sure. Not a legend but a decent player all the same.
Anyone telling you differently is lying.
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So you watched all those Manchester United games wearing a blindfold...........
 
Are there any other English clubs that have produced 2 classes of generational talents (the babes and the fledglings) like us?

I also find it interesting that our glory years started and ended with 2 managers. In keeping with the tradition, maybe the chosen one is yet to come.I am not talking about Moyes.
 
MC89 said:
Scored some cracking goals... Bradford, villa and Barcelona.

They are the goals everyone remembers but my fav goal was against Sunderland at OT, think was around 2001 season, Giggs passed to him at edge of box and he skelped it right into the top bin at the Stretford end.

Nearly burst the net.
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Hardly any backlift as well. Beautiful goal
 
My favourite player of all time. Genius on the ball, best passer. Pretty much the perfect midfielder.
 
acnumber9 said:
What compelling points would you like to counter your argument? It’s a shit argument. He was a regular in midfield for one of the best teams in Europe for several years being one of the most successful players to have played the game. He wasn’t a headline grabbing player, he was an integral part of a great team. You don’t need awards to confirm what can be viewed with your own eyes.
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what period were we one of the best in europe? we very rarely challenged for the CL most seasons and were not real contenders
 
I watched our second half come-back against Newcastle after watching this twice yesterday.

I think I actually shed a tear when I saw, even at our current attacking best, how immobile we are. And how few real clever football heads we have out there.

EDIT: I mean the Ferocity and Talent YT vid btw
 
Stacks said:
what period were we one of the best in europe? we very rarely challenged for the CL most seasons and were not real contenders
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We didn’t? Did I imagine those four Champions League Finals in 12 years? A total only surpassed by Real Madrid? Or the three other semi finals he was a member of? What period were we not one of the best teams in Europe?
 
acnumber9 said:
We didn’t? Did I imagine those four Champions League Finals in 12 years? A total only surpassed by Real Madrid? Or the three other semi finals he was a member of? What period were we not one of the best teams in Europe?
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Stop talking sense, mate. You are ruining his poor effort of an argument!
 
acnumber9 said:
We didn’t? Did I imagine those four Champions League Finals in 12 years? A total only surpassed by Real Madrid? Or the three other semi finals he was a member of? What period were we not one of the best teams in Europe?
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Had we not had the misfortune of running into peak Pep Barcelona twice I'd fancy to be us on 5 CLs/ECs. We didn't just face a great team we faced one of the best footballing teams of all time. I bet a lot of the great CL winners including the recent Madrid teams would be finalists had they bumped into that team.

It's a terrible misfortune of an utterly brilliant United team to have had to be second best to this Barcelona side. Take them out of the equation and I believe we're talking about a multi EC run.
 
I expect nothing different from scousers but I can't believe any United fan would claim Scholes wasn't a great top-level midfield player.
 
12OunceEpilogue said:
I expect nothing different from scousers but I can't believe any United fan would claim Scholes wasn't a great top-level midfield player.
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Anybody (scouse or otherwise) who says he wasn’t a great player is fooling themselves or is just on the wind up.

That being said, as fans we sometimes overlook some of the negatives about our own players and we don’t give a balanced view. I’m surprised more people haven’t commented on Scholes stamina in the later years. He doesn’t get enough praise for completely turning around our season in 11/12 when his form was majestic but you could see he really began to run out of steam towards the end (particularly that Everton match). In a few of the games against Arsenal during 06-08 he was subbed off a few times after running himself into the ground and at times you could see why Fergie preferred a more energetic midfield (Anderson, Hargreaves, Fletcher).
 
Irwin99 said:
Anybody (scouse or otherwise) who says he wasn’t a great player is fooling themselves or is just on the wind up.

That being said, as fans we sometimes overlook some of the negatives about our own players and we don’t give a balanced view. I’m surprised more people haven’t commented on Scholes stamina in the later years. He doesn’t get enough praise for completely turning around our season in 11/12 when his form was majestic but you could see he really began to run out of steam towards the end (particularly that Everton match). In a few of the games against Arsenal during 06-08 he was subbed off a few times after running himself into the ground and at times you could see why Fergie preferred a more energetic midfield (Anderson, Hargreaves, Fletcher).
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Agreed, he was by no means a tireless player but a great one all the same.
 
The only thing he couldn't do was tackle, SAF kept telling him not to do it, to just jockey or close down opponents, but his red card tally showed he didn't listen to that piece of advice. More than a few times he would cement someone, be red carded and when he was walking off his expression was one of bewilderment, as if he couldn't actually believe what he had just done.
 
He wasn't so great at tackling at the end of his career but there are quite a few goals that he set up by winning the ball over the years. That legendary Rooney goal from the counter attack against Arsenal started with a Scholes tackle I think, ditto the equaliser against Spurs in the final game of the 99 season. I suspect he had a decent amount of tackles per game in the 90s/00s .
 
ZAGREB RED said:
The only thing he couldn't do was tackle, SAF kept telling him not to do it, to just jockey or close down opponents, but his red card tally showed he didn't listen to that piece of advice. More than a few times he would cement someone, be red carded and when he was walking off his expression was one of bewilderment, as if he couldn't actually believe what he had just done.
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I dunno, Redknapp was convinced he knew what he was doing regarding his tackling.
 
For me the most mesmerizing part about Scholes is that he was extremely influential in United general play, he would make an instant difference even when he was on the pitch for 10 minutes, it was 10 minutes directed by Scholes. It might sound like nothing but it's fairly rare.
 
acnumber9 said:
We didn’t? Did I imagine those four Champions League Finals in 12 years? A total only surpassed by Real Madrid? Or the three other semi finals he was a member of? What period were we not one of the best teams in Europe?
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It was 3 finals in 12 years. A 12 year cycle is a bit large as football moves in much smaller cycles. Like saying Liverpool are one of the best sides in Europe because they made 2005, 07 and 17 final despite not being in Europe for 7 seasons...…...

Anyways, from 1997-2006 (10 seasons) we made 3 semi finals (including ONE solitary final) and never beat any of the big guns in Europe. How that qualifies as "one of the best teams" I do not know. We were more like England in international tournament. In 2009-11 we wasn't one of our key players and was regularly replaced, left out altogether and did not start 2 of the finals. When we were actually one of the best in Europe his role was massively reduced and more squad player. In 2008 he played 588 minutes in the CL, 2009 229 minutes in the CL, 2011 366 minutes. These were years we got to the final. His minutes seem remarkably low for one of the best players in the best team in Europe.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Had we not had the misfortune of running into peak Pep Barcelona twice I'd fancy to be us on 5 CLs/ECs. We didn't just face a great team we faced one of the best footballing teams of all time. I bet a lot of the great CL winners including the recent Madrid teams would be finalists had they bumped into that team.

It's a terrible misfortune of an utterly brilliant United team to have had to be second best to this Barcelona side. Take them out of the equation and I believe we're talking about a multi EC run.
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And at that time he Scholey was left on the bench in both finals. The original statement was "He was a regular in midfield for one of the best teams in Europe for several years" which I disagreed with. In the 90's till we got back in 2007 I never considered us one of the best in Europe. Like England, I always felt the moment we faced one of the top sides we'll go out and it happened quite a lot.
 
Stacks said:
And at that time he Scholey was left on the bench in both finals. The original statement was "He was a regular in midfield for one of the best teams in Europe for several years" which I disagreed with. In the 90's till we got back in 2007 I never considered us one of the best in Europe. Like England, I always felt the moment we faced one of the top sides we'll go out and it happened quite a lot.
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We were one of the best teams on the planet for two decades under SAF. We dominated one of the best two leagues for 20 plus years. Are Juve one of Europe's best teams? And they play in a far lesser league than we did.
 
Irwin99 said:
Anybody (scouse or otherwise) who says he wasn’t a great player is fooling themselves or is just on the wind up.

That being said, as fans we sometimes overlook some of the negatives about our own players and we don’t give a balanced view. I’m surprised more people haven’t commented on Scholes stamina in the later years. He doesn’t get enough praise for completely turning around our season in 11/12 when his form was majestic but you could see he really began to run out of steam towards the end (particularly that Everton match). In a few of the games against Arsenal during 06-08 he was subbed off a few times after running himself into the ground and at times you could see why Fergie preferred a more energetic midfield (Anderson, Hargreaves, Fletcher).
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No one said he wasn't a great player. That much is clear. The debate is "how great?"
 
amolbhatia50k said:
We were one of the best teams on the planet for two decades under SAF. We dominated one of the best two leagues for 20 plus years. Are Juve one of Europe's best teams? And they play in a far lesser league than we did.
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You spelt "premiership" wrong its not spelt "planet"
When was the EPL one of the best 2 leagues and how do you qualify that? if you go by actual European cup wins, the Italians and Spanish rinsed it from 1992-2005 (13 seasons) we had a solitary CL and Cup winners cup win. Why was the EPL one of the best 2? certainly from 05-11 we were up there (7 seasons) but never were we taken seriously aside from then as we hadn't merited it.
 
JPRouve said:
For me the most mesmerizing part about Scholes is that he was extremely influential in United general play, he would make an instant difference even when he was on the pitch for 10 minutes, it was 10 minutes directed by Scholes. It might sound like nothing but it's fairly rare.
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I totally agree. I have never seen a player come on and then dictate the game like him. He was a conductor. A quarterback. Everything flowed through him and he decided the speed of the game. It was a privilege to have been able to watch him.
 
Stacks said:
And at that time he Scholey was left on the bench in both finals. The original statement was "He was a regular in midfield for one of the best teams in Europe for several years" which I disagreed with. In the 90's till we got back in 2007 I never considered us one of the best in Europe. Like England, I always felt the moment we faced one of the top sides we'll go out and it happened quite a lot.
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Fair enough point, though I think we were a tad unlucky sometimes and it was nowhere near as bad as Arsenal's record in Europe up until their 2006 final. 2002 should have been a final for us. 1997 too.

The reason I feel Scholes was left out in the 2009 CL final was because Sir Alex wanted a high intensity pressing team and again in 2011 I feel like he picked Giggs because he preferred his energy levels. I honestly think against any other team Scholes would have played.
 
Stacks said:
You spelt "premiership" wrong its not spelt "planet"
When was the EPL one of the best 2 leagues and how do you qualify that? if you go by actual European cup wins, the Italians and Spanish rinsed it from 1992-2005 (13 seasons) we had a solitary CL and Cup winners cup win. Why was the EPL one of the best 2? certainly from 05-11 we were up there (7 seasons) but never were we taken seriously aside from then as we hadn't merited it.
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Don't be obtuse. A team dominating the premier league over more than two decades is one of the best on the planet. If Juventus do that for two decades while winning "only" 2 ECs then they are definitely one of the best teams of those era(s).
 
Stacks said:
It was 3 finals in 12 years. A 12 year cycle is a bit large as football moves in much smaller cycles. Like saying Liverpool are one of the best sides in Europe because they made 2005, 07 and 17 final despite not being in Europe for 7 seasons...…...

Anyways, from 1997-2006 (10 seasons) we made 3 semi finals (including ONE solitary final) and never beat any of the big guns in Europe. How that qualifies as "one of the best teams" I do not know. We were more like England in international tournament. In 2009-11 we wasn't one of our key players and was regularly replaced, left out altogether and did not start 2 of the finals. When we were actually one of the best in Europe his role was massively reduced and more squad player. In 2008 he played 588 minutes in the CL, 2009 229 minutes in the CL, 2011 366 minutes. These were years we got to the final. His minutes seem remarkably low for one of the best players in the best team in Europe.
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No it was 4 finals in 12 years. It was four in thirteen seasons if you want to be pedantic about it.

I don’t know what your Liverpool example is trying to say. Utd competed at a higher level domestically and abroad. Only one team made it to more finals over a thirteen season period than Man United. We won several domestic titles over the same period. What’s your cut off for being one of the best teams in Europe?

Bayern Munich weren’t one of Europe’s big guns in 99?

Player in his mid thirties plays less games than young player. What a shocker. Ask the man who managed him how good he was.
 
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Stacks said:
You spelt "premiership" wrong its not spelt "planet"
When was the EPL one of the best 2 leagues and how do you qualify that? if you go by actual European cup wins, the Italians and Spanish rinsed it from 1992-2005 (13 seasons) we had a solitary CL and Cup winners cup win. Why was the EPL one of the best 2? certainly from 05-11 we were up there (7 seasons) but never were we taken seriously aside from then as we hadn't merited it.
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Between 2005 and 2012 when England had 8 Champions League finalists and Spain had 3? How would you qualify it?

Between 1992 and 2005 Italian teams won it once more than English sides. Rinsed it indeed.
 
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Best midfielder to play for England. The difference between Xavi and Scholes is in style of play - more possession-based football at Barcelona, keeping the ball ticking as opposed to long balls/through balls to find space in a counter-attacking set-up like ours. In terms of talent, I think both are tremendous/WC.
 
acnumber9 said:
No it was 4 finals in 12 years. It was four in thirteen seasons if you want to be pedantic about it.

I don’t know what your Liverpool example is trying to say. Utd competed at a higher level domestically and abroad. Only one team made it to more finals over a thirteen season period than Man United. We won several domestic titles over the same period. What’s your cut off for being one of the best teams in Europe?

Bayern Munich weren’t one of Europe’s big guns in 99?

Player in his mid thirties plays less games than young player. What a shocker. Ask the man who managed him how good he was.
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You are making extreme cycles which illigitmises your point. How you gonna use a 12 year comparison? What if United make 3 finals in 4 seasons which we did and make 1 final in 9 seasons (which we did). Clearly over those 9, which is a long time, we were not competitive hence very rarely threatening to win. From 2007-11 we were a top European side (Ronaldo era) for sure but it's very weird that a side can go 9 seasons without a final appearance and be considered one of the top sides. Much like Madrid were pony in Europe from 2002 up until Jose Mourinho days as they couldn't even get past round 2. Then from Jose onwards they re-emerged as a top side. Your using some f'd upped scales and ignoring the near decade where we failed to make a final and also ignoring that when we re-emerged, like Madrid we made some finals over a short period. A team would need to consistently compete to be a top European side and we only did that a few years in a row.
 
acnumber9 said:
Between 2005 and 2012 when England had 8 Champions League finalists and Spain had 3? How would you qualify it?

Between 1992 and 2005 Italian teams won it once more than English sides. Rinsed it indeed.
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They made multiple finals of all 3 Europeans cups. I'll get the data when I fully rise out of bed
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Don't be obtuse. A team dominating the premier league over more than two decades is one of the best on the planet. If Juventus do that for two decades while winning "only" 2 ECs then they are definitely one of the best teams of those era(s).
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Sure because domestic dominance makes you better than teams who you don't even play against overseas. Being better than Newcastle,Liverpool and Arsenal in the 90s makes you world beaters. So were Panathinaikos via their dominance of Greece
 
Stacks said:
Sure because domestic dominance makes you better than teams who you don't even play against overseas. Being better than Newcastle,Liverpool and Arsenal in the 90s makes you world beaters. So were Panathinaikos via their dominance of Greece
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Not sure what you’re trying to prove there.
The PL wasn’t as strong as the Serie A in the 90’s, that is true but it was a lot closer to the Serie A than it was to the Greek league.
Manchester United were undoubtedly one of the strongest teams in Europe in the late 90’s.
 
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