We will never win the league with Lukaku up front

I'd imagine the situation was a bit that Jose asked Ed for a screwdriver, Ed went to the store and they had an absolutely amazing hammer for sale so he bought that. Came back and Jose pointed out it's a fine hammer but that's not what he needed.

Then Jose spent two years using the hammer as a screwdriver instead of looking for another option.

Lukaku is a good forward probably close to top 10 in the world. But not in our system.
 
Theres absolutely no chance that we signed him and Mourinho wasnt asked if hes the right player. We're talking about a player Mourinho had before and didnt use much leading to him leaving. Mourinho will have been even more involved than normal as he will know his character, personality and temperament from dealing with him in the past.

Then there's the evidence of him playing pretty much every week. And not being called out by the manager. A manager who calls his own players out more than any other manager in the league. And he doesnt call out Lukaku. He plays him every week.

So all the evidence is that Mourinho wanted Lukaku as his front man and likes what he's doing, either encouraging it or thats what he sends him on the pitch to do. There is no evidence, anywhere, that this is not the case. He's clearly one of Mourinho's main men in the squad.
 
bosnian_red said:
What he showed at Everton was never good enough for what we aspire to be though, which is a big thing. He was always someone who was a good striker but not for one of the top top teams, lacked too many things in his game. He has shown very little to make us think those weaknesses will ever go away, and if anything has been worse than he was with Everton. Especially in a system that uses 1 striker, it's a huge weakness having him up top, especially when hes out of form.

Yes, he can bully weaker sides (when in form), but in the vast majority of big games, hes next to useless. You want your main striker to rise to the occasion in those games, and expect them to be consistent in the others at the very least. Theres not many options in our squad, but I'd definitely want to try Martial consistently as the main striker for a run, or Sanchez. Rashford isnt suited to it, and lukaku has been woeful. Needs to be benched.
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I think our system under Jose makes him look woeful. He is scoring good numbers for Belgium while not doing alot else.. his weeknesses are obvious to everyone hense why Belgium have him sticking to the simple things that he is good at. And as i have said.. give him service he will score.

As for Martial playing up top, i think most utd fans would love to see that. The added pace added by Martial would be great when playing balls through or over the defence for him to run onto but thats not Jose.. it never has been and i doubt it ever will be. Your talking about the hypothetical scenario of a complete sytem change for us. Lukaku is the target man that Jose has had at most of his teams. And hes doing everything that jose asks of him except scorkng good numbers as we just dont create enough chances per game. Martial couldn't do what Lukaku is being asked to do, its not his game dropping back and holding the ball up,
bringing wide players in and then getting forward to complete the move.

Sanchez could do it i think. With rashford and martial either side. This would be (on paper at least) very fluid and quicker on the transition from midfield to the strikers.
 
Suvvernmanc said:
I think our system under Jose makes him look woeful. He is scoring good numbers for Belgium while not doing alot else.. his weeknesses are obvious to everyone hense why Belgium have him sticking to the simple things that he is good at. And as i have said.. give him service he will score.

As for Martial playing up top, i think most utd fans would love to see that. The added pace added by Martial would be great when playing balls through or over the defence for him to run onto but thats not Jose.. it never has been and i doubt it ever will be. Your talking about the hypothetical scenario of a complete sytem change for us. Lukaku is the target man that Jose has had at most of his teams. And hes doing everything that jose asks of him except scorkng good numbers as we just dont create enough chances per game. Martial couldn't do what Lukaku is being asked to do, its not his game dropping back and holding the ball up,
bringing wide players in and then getting forward to complete the move.

Sanchez could do it i think. With rashford and martial either side. This would be (on paper at least) very fluid and quicker on the transition from midfield to the strikers.
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What he does for Belgium again has no bearing. It's not exactly that impressive having a decent scoring record for your national team when 90% of your games are against small national teams with mostly 2nd rate players, and plenty against players who aren't even full time athletes. 4 goals at the world cup against Tunisia and Panama, nothing against anyone else.

I do agree that the style (whatever it is) that we try to play, Lukaku isn't suited to at all. He's not a bad player. But he really isn't good enough for a truly big team. His limit is for a team fighting for top 4, but has too many problems with consistency and technique to ever be a key player for a team who can be a truly top team.
 
Beachryan said:
I'd imagine the situation was a bit that Jose asked Ed for a screwdriver, Ed went to the store and they had an absolutely amazing hammer for sale so he bought that. Came back and Jose pointed out it's a fine hammer but that's not what he needed.

Then Jose spent two years using the hammer as a screwdriver instead of looking for another option.

Lukaku is a good forward probably close to top 10 in the world. But not in our system.
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Lukaku is nowhere near one of the top 10 forwards in the world.
 
First thing that new (sensible) manager will do is to replace him with Sanchez in starting eleven, mark my words.

Jose is digging a huhe hole for himself by keeping him in the team.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I think Mou sees it, I suspect he simply thinks he's the best of a bad bunch. Mou has generally had an excellent eye for strikers and got them playing at a consistently high level (McCarthy, Milito, Drogba, Costa etc) so it's strange how off track Lukaku is. Likely it was forced when the extent of Ibra's injury was revealed and even then we were more keen on Morata originally.
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75 million is a big price to pay for a 'best of a bad bunch' striker. He is merely nothing but a stop gap imo. As a starter we can't have someone as streaky as Lukaku. He goes through spells where he doesn't look like a footballer sometimes.
 
Beachryan said:
I'd imagine the situation was a bit that Jose asked Ed for a screwdriver, Ed went to the store and they had an absolutely amazing hammer for sale so he bought that. Came back and Jose pointed out it's a fine hammer but that's not what he needed.

Then Jose spent two years using the hammer as a screwdriver instead of looking for another option.

Lukaku is a good forward probably close to top 10 in the world. But not in our system.
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Oh FFS, now Lukaku wasn’t a Mourinho signing as well?
 
Rajma said:
First thing that new (sensible) manager will do is to replace him with Sanchez in starting eleven, mark my words.

Jose is digging a huhe hole for himself by keeping him in the team.
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I'd say both will be replaced if the manager gets the budget to do as he wants to
 
Comparisons between Lukaku and Drogba are laughable and a bit insulting to the latter :lol:

Seven without a goal for our number nine now. That’s quite a run for someone whose only quality is putting the ball in the net.

Sorry but Lukaku just doesn’t do enough. His hold up and link play is non existent, he goes missing in big games and he’s missed loads of presentable chances in so called easier games.

It’s a shame that he’s one of Mourinho’s undroppables and that Sanchez doesn’t really fit the manager’s profile for a centre forward.
 
He's literally offered nothing of late; no movement to occupy defenders and create space, doesn't use his massive frame anywhere near well enough to hold up the ball/battle CBs in and around the box, useless at link-up play.

On top of all that he's lost his one and only redeeming feature - his work rate. I know Jose signed him for a huge fee but give the guy a rest ffs, man. Hopefully Martial coming in to good form forces him to try Alexis through the middle as I think a fluid front 3 of Marti-Alexis-Rashford could be absolutely lethal.
 
We should of gone for Lacazette and he would have been £20mil cheaper. Him and Martial up top would have done the business.
 
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It’s almost as if Mourinho has the same obsession constantly playing Lukaku regardless of form as Van Gaal did with Rooney? Like he has to justify the outlay hoping he will come good again - it’s counterproductive and I don’t understand the logic?
 
Litch said:
This is why the criticism of players on forums has become crazy as we criticise players for not being what we want them to be and not who they are. Rom's abilities are about scoring goals and that's how he should be judge. If you are looking for the type of player that you described, good luck with that cause so is everyone else. In modern football, I think Ronaldo and a 25 year old Rooney are the only strikers in the Prem that were that complete.
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The likes of lacazette look like a prime Rooney in comparison to Lukaku when it comes to build up play and touch. In our own team we have players with more complete skill set.
 
Like I said earlier, I was scratching my head thinking why did Jose go for Lukaku. Watching Jose teams in the past, the key component he wants from his strikers is for them to keep hold of the ball. That is what his attacking style of play is about. Drogba keeps hold of the ball and it lets the wide men and Lampard in, Milito keeps hold of the ball and it allowed Sneijder, Stankovic/Pandev and Eto in, Chelsea 2nd time round, he bought Costa, so he could keep hold of the ball and it allowed the likes of Hazard, Oscar and Willian in. Our first season under Jose, we had Zlatan, who was brilliant at holding the ball and the amount of chances the team had, only for poor finishing or the opposition keepers having the game of their lives costing us.

So buying Lukaku just did not make sense because he is not a typical Jose striker. If you want the best out of Lukaku play him alongside someone.
 
Nickthepip said:
Because of his size and strength you expect him to be a decent hold up centre forward. He isn’t.
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He is large, but he gets out muscled by most defenders. This could be due to his poor first touch or it could be that he doesn't have much strength. Not sure.
From what I've seen, I think it's a lack of strength.
 
We're only happy on this forum when we're getting after a player aren't we :lol:

At least it hasn't gone back towards the "Morata is much better" nonsense of last season
 
LegendCantona7 said:
Like I said earlier, I was scratching my head thinking why did Jose go for Lukaku. Watching Jose teams in the past, the key component he wants from his strikers is for them to keep hold of the ball.

So buying Lukaku just did not make sense because he is not a typical Jose striker.
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Perhaps Jose thought that because he was large, he would be strong enough to keep hold of the ball.
 
Smores said:
I'm convinced if we'd have signed Mahrez so much of our play would be improved and Lukaku would be banging them in and hailed.

If we're not going to play with a pacy winger then we'll never get the most of him.
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This is true, but Woodward did not want to spend.
I think Jose was after Willian for the RW role, but Woodward said, "no".
This Summer was an exercise in saving money - I assume because Woodward needed to balance the books a little.
 
sunama said:
He is large, but he gets out muscled by most defenders. This could be due to his poor first touch or it could be that he doesn't have much strength. Not sure.
From what I've seen, I think it's a lack of strength.
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Pretty poor balance, not able to utlilise his strength and making all the wrong moves inside the box. I will harp on about this til kingdom come, but why doesn’t he ever attack the first post? Always hiding behind defenders on the back post (which might help if you are Ronaldo).

His size and speed should see him win most battles there. Remember when Rooney couldn’t score if Martial didn’t ‘shoot’ the ball at him on the first post? Lukaku is a much bigger target so should be easier to hit.
 
sunama said:
Perhaps Jose thought that because he was large, he would be strong enough to keep hold of the ball.
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Watching him at Everton, it was always known the ball bounced off him and went 5 yards in front when someone passed to him.
 
sunama said:
This is true, but Woodward did not want to spend.
I think Jose was after Willian for the RW role, but Woodward said, "no".
This Summer was an exercise in saving money - I assume because Woodward needed to balance the books a little.
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Thank god for that. Such basic football that would not win the league.

Willian & Aldeweireld are good players but they come from our rivals that would ask for money that has the ability to target players who are already better than them whilst being 7 years younger.

Such easy football to defend against in comparison to the football that our rivals play. Whilst Jose has rivalled Pep well at Madrid - he had players like Ronaldo & Higuain playing for him. Willian might have got the best out of Lukaku but Lukaku at his best is not able to win the league & is no comparison to the likes of Drogba, Higuain, Milito etc etc even if he had the support for him.

Very basic football.
 
Cloud7 said:
Oh FFS, now Lukaku wasn’t a Mourinho signing as well?
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Not sure tbh. We needed a CF once Ibra was crocked, and it took quite a while to sort out. Well probably never know if he was Jose's first choice, or if he wanted a different type of forward.
 
Rozay said:
Lukaku is nowhere near one of the top 10 forwards in the world.
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I'm not his biggest fan, but if you just look at the numbers he's got to be close. Has to be near top of the prem over last five years, might become the highest scoring European player ever in internationals, and hasn't really had a bad season in like 8 years.

Just think there's a real lack of true quality in the centre forward position everywhere.
 
The OP could have any amount of variables;

We will never win the league with 2018 EMO José.
We will never win the league depending soully on Smalling/Jones/Lindelof.
Valencia will never Captain Man Utd to a league title.
Marouane Fellaini will never win a Premier League.

We're miles off the pace and dropping.
 
Beachryan said:
Not sure tbh. We needed a CF once Ibra was crocked, and it took quite a while to sort out. Well probably never know if he was Jose's first choice, or if he wanted a different type of forward.
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Lukaku fits the archetype of what Mourinho’s ideal striker is. He probably thought he could mold him into a Drogba type of player. The fact that he uses him like this despite the fact that that has never been Lukaku’s game supports this. Of all the players we’ve signed since José has been here, Lukaku is the second most “Mourinho” type player we have, after Matic.
 
Cloud7 said:
Lukaku fits the archetype of what Mourinho’s ideal striker is. He probably thought he could mold him into a Drogba type of player. The fact that he uses him like this despite the fact that that has never been Lukaku’s game supports this. Of all the players we’ve signed since José has been here, Lukaku is the second most “Mourinho” type player we have, after Matic.
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Only optically though? Jose isn't an idiot, Lukaku wasn't some unknown. You're right, Jose always use a mobile, strong pivot striker. But it can't be a shock that wasn't Lukaku given he had never shown those skills in his career?

It feels the simplest answer (Jose thought he could mould him) but also really stupid.
 
Beachryan said:
Only optically though? Jose isn't an idiot, Lukaku wasn't some unknown. You're right, Jose always use a mobile, strong pivot striker. But it can't be a shock that wasn't Lukaku given he had never shown those skills in his career?

It feels the simplest answer (Jose thought he could mould him) but also really stupid.
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The other options for what Mourinho likes as a striker would have been unattainable that season (Lewandowski, Benzema etc). I agree that he isn’t an idiot, and the answer does seem simplistic, but him thinking he could mold him makes more sense than the other alternative theories really.
 
There are three big problems I have with Lukaku and why I don't believe he is good enough to be the first choice striker.

1) His lack of ability with the ball. A first choice striker for United should give the crowd and his team mates the belief when the ball arrives at his feet he can pull something out of nothing. I'm not merely talking about dribbling - Mark Hughes was not a great dribbler, Ruud van Nistelrooy was not a great dribbler, Wayne Rooney was not a great dribbler. What we're talking here is the ability to instantly trap the ball and see a picture in his mind. The ability to make his own space with sharp turns and sound technique. Lukaku tries and he has improved to a degree but what he does is still very unnatural and a second or two behind the tempo. You can see it with the movement of other players who have to hold their run for him to get the ball out of his feet.

2) For a big man his use of his frame is pathetic. To use Hughes again (an inferior goalscorer but FAR superior footballer) - Hughes had really good control and back to goal play but he could play the battering ram very good too. Lukaku has poor control and back to goal play so we resort to hoofing for him to win headers but even then he struggles to make his mark. He doesn't make defenders work hard or drop deep to curtail him because he offers no threat to make them scared.

3) He talks a big game about his mentality and ethic - I don't doubt the latter but I doubt the former. He goes hiding a lot when the going is tough and other players ignore his runs or just play around him as if they don't trust him. Lukaku doesn't impose himself enough on defenders but nor his own team mates. He does a lot of pointing AFTER the ball is gone but where is that option in play - what actually happens is makes no realistic option for the team mate to play by moving into space or dragging opponents out of areas for a team mate to run into. He must be really difficult to play with if you want to have some fluidity in attack.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
We should of gone for Lacazette and he would have been £20mil cheaper. Him and Martial up top would have done the business.
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Lukaku comfortably out performed Lacazette in every conceivable way last season
 
I remember when United had strikers like Solskjær, Yorke and Cole, good strikers battling it out, sometimes benched, sometimes in great form, and with different qualities so sometimes one was preferred over the other depending on what the game was asking for. None of them world class in a way they could have been the main man at, say, Real Madrid, but it worked in this setup, and they were popular.

This is the kind of setup that would work much better for Lukaku. Get the guy some competition, don't be afraid to not play him if he's tired or different qualities are in need for a particular game.
 
Gate99 said:
I remember when United had strikers like Solskjær, Yorke and Cole, good strikers battling it out, sometimes benched, sometimes in great form, and with different qualities so sometimes one was preferred over the other depending on what the game was asking for. None of them world class in a way they could have been the main man at, say, Real Madrid, but it worked in this setup, and they were popular.

This is the kind of setup that would work much better for Lukaku. Get the guy some competition, don't be afraid to not play him if he's tired or different qualities are in need for a particular game.
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The second Zlatan was fit last season is when his form dropped, he doesn't cope well with competition
 
Beachryan said:
I'm not his biggest fan, but if you just look at the numbers he's got to be close. Has to be near top of the prem over last five years, might become the highest scoring European player ever in internationals, and hasn't really had a bad season in like 8 years.

Just think there's a real lack of true quality in the centre forward position everywhere.
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That’s true, but I think it takes more than the biggest numbers. He’s just not a good footballer, and for all the talk of his numbers, he’d be a lot more prolific if he was.

He’s hard to properly evaluate I think. Like, I can read, and know what his figures say. But I can also see, and he is nowhere near a top level forward. I’m inclined to say that the evidence that he is shit when watching him play, on this occasion, overwhelms any argument made by his numbers. That’s how far away from a top player he looks.

Excluding the obvious greats and even the tier below them, I’d argue that Arnautovic, Dzeko, Sturridge, Lacazette, Benzema, Immobile, Mandzukic, Vardy, Mariano Diaz, Rodrigo, and Hernandez are better players than Lukaku. I could go on and list a tier below even that lot, because that’s how much I don’t rate him, but I don’t want to start a long side-discussion. That said, I believe all of those players I mentioned would at least match his 16 league goals for us if they played every minute like he did last year, and also make us look a much better side full-stop, improving us by making their teammates look better too.

If presented with enough balls in the box, a lot of strikers would get a lot of goals for Belgium. And tbh, I don’t really care what he does for them anyway. Lukaku has played in England for about 8 years and I’ve seen enough to form my opinion that he’s an average player.

If we listed all of his attributes and weaknesses on a piece of paper, it would not be immediately clear whether you are referring to Smalling or Lukaku, I strongly believe that. I’d be a happier United fan once he’s gone.
 
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