The Saudi Takeover Rumor Thread

[JamiePollocksOG]

Oh, right. So you are concerned with human rights abuses?

Please look back at my post history and you'll see where my political stance is. Truth be told i no longer support my club financially and now just a fan. Still cheer the team on from the couch.

Sorry the attempted humour didn't come across as it was meant to, i wasn't having a dig but trying to make light of the situation you guys are in.

Probably bad timing. Sorry.

 

[11101]

UAE is a tiny little state who have little regional or global significance. They don't even own City. One of their ruling family (which is vast - the legacy of local Bedouin tribes) own City.

Lets have it right, the human rights is a nonsense discussion. Britain and America destroyed the Middle East and drew its borders so no one should lecture Arab countries about human rights. You find a Middle Eastern country with a liberal democracy. They don't exist. It makes Utd fans feel better to regard themselves as morally superior to City but deep down I think Utd fans realise this is just an argument of convenience. Utd have ong had sponsorship agreements with Saudi companies and have a strategic partnership with the Saudi state so what on Earth are Man Utd fans doing talking about the UAE all the time?

The lengths some will go to makes themselves feel better about this, or to stick up for their homeland, im not sure which it is.

The US and UK have made a mess in an already very messed up part of the world, no doubt, but as far as I'm aware oppression, torture and slavery aren't part of the daily routine for those countries. Saudi's human rights record is appalling and akin to something you would have found in the West 200 years ago.

 

[Enigma_87]

If we left it up to the market, there would still be child labour.

I also don't know how this is relevant to this discussion anyway. The market won't balance out Carolina Red's complete and utter apathy and lack of interest in human rights abuses.

Don't think CR took it that far as you are describing tbh.

Wouldn't be surprised the Glazers having such connections anyway and putting their money to companies that "appreciate" the human right abuses.

 

[Kostov]

I don’t want to be rude but it should not be hard to see the difference between being owned by citizens of a country which you don’t like and being owned by the rulers of a country you don’t like. The Glazers do not influence US foreign policy. The Saudi buyers are part of the family that runs Saudi foreign (and domestic) policy.

I do understand the difference, but that's not the entire point. It bothers me that people choose to care when the Saudis are wrongdoing, but when the West is helping them or commits atrocities on daily bases nobody gives a care. I know some people do, but they are so few that they are not enough to make a difference and that's what I'm pointing out.

 

[Siorac]

I do understand the difference, but that's not the entire point. It bothers me that people choose to care when the Saudis are wrongdoing, but when the West is helping them or commits atrocities on daily bases nobody gives a care. I know some people do, but they are so few that they are not enough to make a difference and that's what I'm pointing out.

But you cannot blame people in this thread for others not giving a feck. Many of us care about both.

 

[RedNed77]

Has there been further rumours about this or is this just what we all like to argue about during international breaks these days?

 

[Kostov]

The lengths some will go to makes themselves feel better about this, or to stick up for their homeland, im not sure which it is.

The US and UK have made a mess in an already very messed up part of the world, no doubt, but as far as I'm aware oppression, torture and slavery aren't part of the daily routine for those countries. Saudi's human rights record is appalling and akin to something you would have found in the West 200 years ago.

How is oppression any worse than bombing citizens in their own country in their own homes? Because it happens in Syria it happened in Iraq. And let's not talk about the drone program.

 

[Pexbo]

This really does feel inevitable. I think the Glazer’s have just about reaches saturation in terms of growth.

The sad fact is that history aside, we no longer have the chemical make up of what made us great during the Ferguson era. We have all the business infrastructure and very little of the footballing infrastructure and the former can only survive so long without the latter.

Ferguson is gone, his coaching staff are all but gone, Gill is no longer here, the youth setup has changed markedly and it’s nigh on impossible to benefit from your youth setup now anyway.

If the Glazer’s hold on to the club in the current climate, it will begin to lose value rather than gain it. I think they’re ripe for a sale and I can’t see many other affording it or having the motivation to own it.

Saudi’s owning United to put the UAE’s City in their shadow is a very Saudi thing to do.

 

[Kostov]

But you cannot blame people in this thread for others not giving a feck. Many of us care about both.

I don't blame anybody, I just point out it's hypocrisy for the majority who don't care when their own government does it but are infuriated when the Saudis are doing it. Fair play to those who actually care and try to do something, but they are so few and barely change anything.

Myself I was horrified at the beginning, then I realized people might care enough to sign some petition but won't bother to get our of their regular life to do more. It's a general hypocrisy I'm pointing out and we are all part of it.

 

[11101]

How is oppression any worse than bombing citizens in their own country in their own homes? Because it happens in Syria it happened in Iraq. And let's not talk about the drone program.

The US isn't bombing innocent civilians in their homes for the fun of it, and a lot of their citizens don't agree with it and say so. You try that in the Gulf. Every nation has its skeletons in the closet but there are varying degrees and Saudi isn't far from being the worst of the lot.

Anyway, that's for another thread.

 

[Needham]

What a lot of rubbish.

You can still be a United fan and also be against the owners. United is bigger than any individual player, manager... or owner. I’d love to check back to these threads in the future and see all those who claim they’ll stop supporting still posting away.
It’s irrelevant anyway for now as the latest reports appear to be downplaying any sale.

Manchester United is bigger than the govt of Saudi Arabia?

 

[Kostov]

The US isn't bombing innocent civilians in their homes for the fun of it, and a lot of their citizens don't agree with it and say so. You try that in the Gulf. Every nation has its skeletons in the closet but there are varying degrees and Saudi isn't far from being the worst of the lot.

Anyway, that's for another thread.

I'm not saying they are doing for the fun of it, most probably for resources or more specifically OIL. And yeah a lot of their citizens don't agree with it, and still vote for one side or the other, but the policies have been the same for decades. Every nation has skeletons, but US and UK have the biggest closet as you can imagine. And yep, I need to chill on this subject, it's pointless.

 

[Naz]

The lengths some will go to makes themselves feel better about this, or to stick up for their homeland, im not sure which it is.

The US and UK have made a mess in an already very messed up part of the world, no doubt, but as far as I'm aware oppression, torture and slavery aren't part of the daily routine for those countries. Saudi's human rights record is appalling and akin to something you would have found in the West 200 years ago.

You realise there still isn't running water, or electricity 24 hours a day in Iraq. Your expectation of liberal democracy in the region are unrealistic.

As for Saudi, Man Utd has a strategic partnership with the Saudi state: https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/manchester-united-agree-strategic-partnership-in-saudi-arabia

 

[Keefy18]

I think folks need to be careful what they wish for with this supposed take over (don't believe there's anything in it myself).

Folks seem to think they'll invest heavily like City, its not a fair comparison at all. City was bought out for £200m approx, they are now worth £2b. What are we worth? 4.5b-5 billion?

Far too many supporters have a simplistic and idiotic notion that Arab buyout = Spend, spend, spend. It won't.

They could do a leveraged buy out putting the club into further debt, if its a cash up front deal, you can sure as hell be certain that they'll not be investing in the club after buying it out right for 5B! It'll probably see a few lean years if the latter option comes to fruition.

They'll want a return on their investment either way, the same way City got theirs and will continue to take huge dividends out of the club like ALL previous owners, which seems to be a thing only attributed to the Glazers and they are chucked into the anti glazer" rhetoric spewed out.

I mean if folks doubt me, feel free to read up on the recent leaks about City's financial doping and how they have cooked the books to their benefit, if it was a play thing to the Arabs they'd not be bothered going to those lengths. They want profit ultimately of course, especially now considering oil money is starting to come under some threat they are looking at alternative revenue streams to continue their profiteering.

 

[RedC]

The whataboutism in this thread is hilarious, what relevance does this 'Britain and the USA are bombing countries' argument have to City (and potentially Utd) being owned by families that are directly responsible for the kind of stuff mentioned in here? Has anyone said that they think it's fine for the former to do those things? Do the rulers of these western countries own football clubs that are the point of discussion on this forum?

Not sure why some people feel you can't comment on tyrannous rulers worming their way into football because you live in/interact with countries that also do bad things.

I don't get how the take away for lots of people is 'well I already don't complain about the other bad actors I interact with, so why care about this new one', surely you should instead decide to reconsider those you already deal with(maybe without having knowledge of the extent of their negative actions).

 

[Siorac]

Manchester United is bigger than the govt of Saudi Arabia?

We probably have more fans than them, to be fair.

 

[Siorac]

I don't blame anybody, I just point out it's hypocrisy for the majority who don't care when their own government does it but are infuriated when the Saudis are doing it. Fair play to those who actually care and try to do something, but they are so few and barely change anything.

Myself I was horrified at the beginning, then I realized people might care enough to sign some petition but won't bother to get our of their regular life to do more. It's a general hypocrisy I'm pointing out and we are all part of it.

Thing is, even if we are not actively doing anything against such atrocities happening, it's understandable - in my opinion anyway - that we don't want to actively support them either. I sure as hell would be uncomfortable to cheer on a team sponsored by the US Army. Even if I won't become an activist working against human rights abuses any time soon, at least I won't be supporting those abuses directly.

 

[snk123]

Can't wait!

 

[Kostov]

Thing is, even if we are not actively doing anything against such atrocities happening, it's understandable - in my opinion anyway - that we don't want to actively support them either. I sure as hell would be uncomfortable to cheer on a team sponsored by the US Army. Even if I won't become an activist working against human rights abuses any time soon, at least I won't be supporting those abuses directly.

We won't be supporting what the Saudis are doing back in their own country, we will be supporting our football club, the club we supported long before and long after they are gone. Look if I could choose who brings the club out of this mess, yeah I'd want some better human beings, but the pool of people who could actually buy the club from the Glazers is very limited.

 

[tieunhilang]

I still feel weird to see people snubbing a chance to upgrade our right wing from Lingard/Mata/Rashford to freaking Mbappe (With Bale as backup) in this summer because of moral high ground... What happened to "Not bringing politics into football" motto from FIFA that many seemed to support earlier?

 

[DanClancy]

What don't I really believe? I agree that we under-invested after the splurge in 2007 (Hargeaves, Nani etc) until Fergy left but we've invested plenty since then. nearly £600m net since Fergy left is not unreasonable

Chasing our tail since Fergie left.
Under investment during those years is why we've overspent in recent years. Buying top players whilst we were on top was one of the reasons why we won so much under Fergie.

 

[Maccataq]

Can't wait for the day we could have players on the bench with minimum transfer amount of 50M

We already have Fred!

 

[stepic]

Manchester United is bigger than the govt of Saudi Arabia?

You know what I mean.

We support United. We don’t support any one player, or the manager, or the owners. We support the team. All this ‘i’d quit supporting’ stuff is just people trying to feel morally superior. Thing is no one in this thread is advocating what the Saudi’s are doing.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I won't stop supporting United if this happens, but it'll make my relationship with the club, and football in general, a lot more apathetic. I will love the club till the day i die, but it will be hurtful.

I despise the Saudis and everything they stand for. It would make me properly sad if our club is suddenly connected to them, no matter how much money they throw in our direction. The money is covered in blood and suffering, and I'd rather we keep things the way they are, even with the obvious flaws. I don't like the Glazers more than anyone else, and would love to see the back of them, but not if the Saudis take over.

And of course the fans are allowed to speak up against stuff like this. It's not at all about "trying to feel morally superior", it's about actually caring about what goes on in the world, and taking a stance. I don't want Manchester United to become a PR project for the Saudis. I don't want Manchester United to become a washing machine for dirty, blood stained money. And I certainly don't want Manchester United to be associated with slavery, public executions and suppressive theocracies. There are ways to win titles that don't involve this direction. They can do a magnificent job at rebuilding the club, hiring the right people, and get the train moving the right direction, but I still don't think it's worth it. Hell, even if we win 10 straight league titles, with a few CL trophies and finals along they way, it won't be worth it.

If the takeover happens, I won't be happy. Actually I'd be ashamed. I'd be angry. And I'd be sad. But would I stop supporting the club? No, of course not. Will I be sporting a new edition of the green and gold scarf at games? Absolutely. Will I write long posts about how we should be ashamed of our owners on the caf in the future? Yes. Will I do it to "feel morally superior"? No.

 

[Tincanalley]

Ok but this sort of nihilism takes you nowhere. Do you just not care about anything because everything is shit anyway? Do you believe there is no reason to stand up for anything in the world because there will always be bad things?

By this logic, we could just do away with laws and values and let everyone do whatever the feck they want. Someone's murdering children in their free time? Eh, no matter, why should anyone care about that when there are killings all over the world anyway?

Great post. Game, set and match.

 

[11101]

You realise there still isn't running water, or electricity 24 hours a day in Iraq. Your expectation of liberal democracy in the region are unrealistic.

As for Saudi, Man Utd has a strategic partnership with the Saudi state: https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/manchester-united-agree-strategic-partnership-in-saudi-arabia

Right, but what's that got to do with the US or the UK? Iraq doesn't have running water or electricity because Saddam Hussein decided he wanted to pick a fight with Iran back in the 80s.

Nobody is arguing that Saudi Arabia should have a liberal democracy. We simply don't think its right to turn a blind eye to a country that abuses, tortures and murders so many of its people because they don't agree with the government, their religion, or sometimes simply have the wrong shade of skin.

 

[Garethw]

I think folks need to be careful what they wish for with this supposed take over (don't believe there's anything in it myself).

Folks seem to think they'll invest heavily like City, its not a fair comparison at all. City was bought out for £200m approx, they are now worth £2b. What are we worth? 4.5b-5 billion?

Far too many supporters have a simplistic and idiotic notion that Arab buyout = Spend, spend, spend. It won't.

They could do a leveraged buy out putting the club into further debt, if its a cash up front deal, you can sure as hell be certain that they'll not be investing in the club after buying it out right for 5B! It'll probably see a few lean years if the latter option comes to fruition.

They'll want a return on their investment either way, the same way City got theirs and will continue to take huge dividends out of the club like ALL previous owners, which seems to be a thing only attributed to the Glazers and they are chucked into the anti glazer" rhetoric spewed out.

I mean if folks doubt me, feel free to read up on the recent leaks about City's financial doping and how they have cooked the books to their benefit, if it was a play thing to the Arabs they'd not be bothered going to those lengths. They want profit ultimately of course, especially now considering oil money is starting to come under some threat they are looking at alternative revenue streams to continue their profiteering.

Once they’ve purchased the club they potentially wouldn’t have to put a penny of their money into it again.

United generate about £500-£600 million a year on their own. When you take away all of the running costs, wages etc, you could still be looking at a £200-£300 million annual transfer budget available without them having to spend a penny.

The club’s ability to generate this level of money will only last so long if we are languishing in midtable and playing boring as a cheese sandwich football.

The Glazers have been incredibly lucky that our appeal and fan base was so strong that it’s still survived the last five years.

The next owners would be stupid to assume the same. We have to get back to the top if the level of money generated is to be maintained over a long term period.

 

[LoveFootball]

I understand and respect respect your points of view. It's a matter of principle, for me the end justifies the means. if we were own by these Saudis, I think a century later nobody will talk about them, only success will be remembered.
England was built by the plunder of resources and the massacre of peoples from different nations around world, and it does not seem to trouble anyone; the US is doing the same thing now but in another form and it does not seem to trouble any international NGOs.

The world is cruel, but it's like that. To live with the devil, you must also be a devil.

The lengths some will go to makes themselves feel better about this, or to stick up for their homeland, im not sure which it is.

The US and UK have made a mess in an already very messed up part of the world, no doubt, but as far as I'm aware oppression, torture and slavery aren't part of the daily routine for those countries. Saudi's human rights record is appalling and akin to something you would have found in the West 200 years ago.

What about massacre and genocide? USA and UK are responsible of founding rebels and armed groups that kills and torture people in some small countries. And If the Saudi are so bad, why do USA and UK do business and partnership with them? What is worse between being a terrorist of founding a terrorist?

USA, UK, Saudi are all the same, the only difference is the 1st two can control the media and manipulate mass opinion. I just think it's pointless to associate football with politic.

 

[Keefy18]

Once they’ve purchased the club they potentially wouldn’t have to put a penny of their money into it again.

United generate about £500-£600 million a year on their own. When you take away all of the running costs, wages etc, you could still be looking at a £200-£300 million annual transfer budget available without them having to spend a penny.

The club’s ability to generate this level of money will only last so long if we are languishing in midtable and playing boring as a cheese sandwich football.

The Glazers have been incredibly lucky that our appeal and fan base was so strong that it’s still survived the last five years.

The next owners would be stupid to assume the same. We have to get back to the top if the level of money generated is to be maintained over a long term period.

That depends on how the buy out is done, the Glazers have retained the debt on the club and whilst the repayments have been restructured and its financially healthier for us more recently I wonder what the outcome would be if the buy out was leveraged as we'd most likely see an increase in our debt from the approx 490m it currently is.

And completely agree, our revenue will drop off if the boring, uninspiring hoof ball continues and more importantly we miss out on Champions League football again. Add to that there seems to be agreement now amongst the players that an exit is preferable, factor in the costs of having to replace talents like De Gea & Martial.

Our biggest problem is not the debt that folks ramble on about though as its been managed better now, its our annual wages expenses. No approx 60m more per annum than Man City's. The Sanchez deal by an large saw our expenses rise by 10% the first quarter of 2018 as confirmed in Woodward'f financial report yesterday.

 

[Carolina Red]

These are murderers we are talking about though.

Yeah, their country has done some bad stuff. We could say that about any country.

I’d say most would agree that Trump has done some bad things that led to the deaths of innocent people. The Glazers donated to, and hosted fundraiser parties for, his campaign.

Like I said, when you get into the realm of the massively wealthy and powerful, you don’t end up with folks whose hands are clean.

 

[Needham]

You know what I mean.

We support United. We don’t support any one player, or the manager, or the owners. We support the team. All this ‘i’d quit supporting’ stuff is just people trying to feel morally superior. Thing is no one in this thread is advocating what the Saudi’s are doing.

For shits and gigs lets go back nearly a century. A newly enriched Germany bids for Utd with all kinds of promises of investments in (Aryan) players. You would object just to feel morally superior? There's no bar?

 

[ZupZup]

I think in many ways, you should be careful what you wish for.

City are having a lot of success but are they really getting as much credit as they might think they deserve? Most fans look at them like you would an athlete doped to the eyeballs with performance enhancing drugs. We sing songs about Chelsea's success being hollow because they are owned by a Russian crook. There's an element of truth to it all.

Would I be as happy seeing United win going down this route like City have? The satisfaction would not be the same for me, and whereas now we might have the begrudging respect of opposition fans... down that road, we'd have absolutely none - and I wouldn't even respect us other.

 

[sunama]

Yeah you'll be fine as long as you don't steal, rape, be gay or Dab. All the usual activities criminals get up to, i'm sure its a lovely place to visit.

In fairness I have never seen anybody dab, on the street, in London, where work/live. So, if there are some who really are addicted to dabbing, they should do this in their own home.
Regarding being gay, if you want to practise this, then do it in private.

You seem to think that a personal CCTV camera will follow you around, in Saudi Arabia - this is not the case.
As long as you are sensible, you won't be arrested for dabbing or being gay.

Remember, every nation has it's own customs. Just because those customs do not synchronise with English customs, it doesn't make that country bad. For example, I fully support the no alcoholic drinking rule. It improves health, lowers crime and hooliganism. Those in the middle east would argue that England is crazy for allowing alcohol.

 

[sunama]

I think in many ways, you should be careful what you wish for.

City are having a lot of success but are they really getting as much credit as they might think they deserve? Most fans look at them like you would an athlete doped to the eyeballs with performance enhancing drugs. We sing songs about Chelsea's success being hollow because they are owned by a Russian crook. There's an element of truth to it all.

Would I be as happy seeing United win going down this route like City have? The satisfaction would not be the same for me, and whereas now we might have the begrudging respect of opposition fans... down that road, we'd have absolutely none - and I wouldn't even respect us other.

Oh, so you are claiming the morale win.
Sorry buddy, but I'd rather be winning trophies and able to compete for the CL every season, rather than languish in 8th place in the league and have no chance to win any trophies.
You can claim the morale victory, but I want to claim the actual victory....because err, that's what actually counts.

 

[stepic]

For shits and gigs lets go back nearly a century. A newly enriched Germany bids for Utd with all kinds of promises of investments in (Aryan) players. You would object just to feel morally superior? There's no bar?

#godwinslaw

I'm not saying people can't object to the owners. I just think it's stupid to stop supporting United because of them. or, more to the point: say they will stop supporting United when in reality only a small % will actually follow through with it.

 

[JohnnyKills]

In fairness I have never seen anybody dab, on the street, in London, where work/live. So, if there are some who really are addicted to dabbing, they should do this in their own home.
Regarding being gay, if you want to practise this, then do it in private.

You seem to think that a personal CCTV camera will follow you around, in Saudi Arabia - this is not the case.
As long as you are sensible, you won't be arrested for dabbing or being gay.

Remember, every nation has it's own customs. Just because those customs do not synchronise with English customs, it doesn't make that country bad. For example, I fully support the no alcoholic drinking rule. It improves health, lowers crime and hooliganism. Those in the middle east would argue that England is crazy for allowing alcohol.

You serious?

 

[The Firestarter]

Some shocking stuff in here. Not really surprising though.

 

[Minimalist]

In fairness I have never seen anybody dab, on the street, in London, where work/live. So, if there are some who really are addicted to dabbing, they should do this in their own home.
Regarding being gay, if you want to practise this, then do it in private.

You seem to think that a personal CCTV camera will follow you around, in Saudi Arabia - this is not the case.
As long as you are sensible, you won't be arrested for dabbing or being gay.

Remember, every nation has it's own customs. Just because those customs do not synchronise with English customs, it doesn't make that country bad. For example, I fully support the no alcoholic drinking rule. It improves health, lowers crime and hooliganism. Those in the middle east would argue that England is crazy for allowing alcohol.

Good grief, it's Captain Shite-Craic!

 

[JPRouve]

In fairness I have never seen anybody dab, on the street, in London, where work/live. So, if there are some who really are addicted to dabbing, they should do this in their own home.
Regarding being gay, if you want to practise this, then do it in private.

You seem to think that a personal CCTV camera will follow you around, in Saudi Arabia - this is not the case.
As long as you are sensible, you won't be arrested for dabbing or being gay.

Remember, every nation has it's own customs. Just because those customs do not synchronise with English customs, it doesn't make that country bad. For example, I fully support the no alcoholic drinking rule. It improves health, lowers crime and hooliganism. Those in the middle east would argue that England is crazy for allowing alcohol.

 

[ZupZup]

Oh, so you are claiming the morale win.
Sorry buddy, but I'd rather be winning trophies and able to compete for the CL every season, rather than languish in 8th place in the league and have no chance to win any trophies.
You can claim the morale victory, but I want to claim the actual victory....because err, that's what actually counts.

Each to their own... just stating personal preference... others can jizz themselves into a coma over having a Saudi sugar daddy.

And it's 'moral', not 'morale'...