Literally the only thing May wants at the end of this whole shambles is to still be Prime Minister.
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Literally the only thing May wants at the end of this whole shambles is to still be Prime Minister.
If its anything like the agreement for the Irish backstop, you should be prepared for Britain to keep trying to renegotiate the agreement or even have politicians advise May to ignore the agreement anyway.
Though it seems mad that it should remain British seeing the geographical location, the people there want to remain (with the UK) so good luck to them.
You don't give an inch in these kinds of situations. Spain has sneakily entered in at the last minute and tried to strong arm us. We now appear weak by giving in and I guarantee further concessions down the line.
The response should have been simple: Gibraltar is British, attempt to take it by force or not at all. British citizens live there, just like on the Falklands the government has the same duty to protect their wishes as they do with citizens living in Britain.
There is no negotiation to be had here. It is British, Spain should have no say in it. Right now Thatcher would be giving Spain the middle finger, just like we did to Argentina.
Yes I imagine. This struggle will be eternal. In any case, it is a victory for Spanish diplomacy. The fact that they have read the draft and realized they had to protest is enough.
The position of Spain today is purely political. Nobody is interested in closing the gate, which would be the deterrent measure in case of diplomatic conflict.
That region is really deprived (32% unemployment in La Linea) and can´t afford to stop the flow of people at the border.
All it does it put in writing how Gibraltar is already handled, through British-Spanish bilateral agreement.
Spain is claiming it opens up discussions for co-sovereignty in the future, which shouldn't be in the table and is an insult to the U.K, the response to which should be to shove a few nuclear powered subs up Spain's behind.
(I'm kidding. But any talk of co-sovereignty should be completely dismissed.)
if Britain starts waving it's little dick about the deal is going to fall through and the people of gibraltar will wind up voting to join Spain because that's where they get their food from
We have this thing called the Royal Navy which would be perfectly capable of aiding supply to Gibraltar indefinitely. Any attempt to starve Gibraltar would be an act of war, a war which Spain would be completely incapable of waging against a power like the U.K. They know this and wouldn't dare try it.
You also underestimate the will of the people on Gibraltar. The Falklanders didn't crumble when Argentina invaded, these people identify with Britain and will fiercely defend that status.
You were not so brave with Hong Kong
It's war!
You were not so brave with Hong Kong
You aren't China .. and we ceded that as per the lease agreement.
Nah, zero chance Spain would ever actually risk conflict, they could do nothing.
Just show that we are prepared to go that far to protect British territory, up military activity in the area as a show of force. Just a little flex.
and totally arm and supply some Catalonian rebels, that always works really well.
jesus christ
This seems to be taken from the comments of the Daily Mail. Before all that there would have to be a conflict of sovereignty (or even co sovereignty), I do not know where you have read that has been raised in a more taxative way. Besides, you would not do anything without the permission of your American owner
Think it was Cameron who said Brexit could lead to World War 3. @SquishyMcSquish just provided a plausible way for it to happen.
You’re freaking nut job.
This thread took a bizarre turn.
Brexiteers loosing their head much?
How about:
India, Australia, Egypt, South Africa, Nigeria, Cameroon, Aden, Oman, Cyprus, Kuwait, New Guinea, New Zealand or Jamaica?
If keeping hold of Gibraltar is so important then there's an approach we could take which would help maintain the status quo - remaining within the EU.
This sounds like madness tbh, maybe better sending the troops back into Belfast and Derry?
Pfftt, show some ambition. A true Brit would hit the Irish by surprise and go straight for Dublin!
Not sure where you heard that but if that did come up in the future thats for the people of Gibraltar to decide. They may actually want co-sovereignty at some point.
Yeah, totally nutty to want to protect British territory at all costs. You know, the same policy we applied with the Falkland Islands.
Meekly surrendering our grip on Gibraltar is totally unacceptable. 98% of the population when last polled want to remain a U.K territory.
Sure, if the people suddenly have an unprecedented shift then it’s their choice.
As of now though, they are very much against co-sovereignty and by all accounts not at all happy with Spain’s actions. We should back them all the way.
I’m not a brexiteer.
These people no longer wanted to be part of the British Empire. Why are people comparing places like this to one where the attitude is totally different?
The only comparable place is the Falklands, which we went to war 8,000 miles away to protect, rightly. Our position was no negotiation because the rights of British citizens were being threatened.
I imagine Argentina felt much the same regarding our ‘American owners’ (who advised negotiation), and Gibraltar so happens to be much closer and more important to the U.Ks interests.
The whole point is we should not be accepting negotiations with Spain on Gibraltar unless the people there change their current position. Right now they are adamantly opposed to any Spanish interference and we should protect that position at all costs. These are British citizens and have a right to British protection.
Give an inch and they will take a mile.
I'm going on a march, cos I want Britain to be about British...
It is British colonial territory. Like Malvinas, which were illegally occupied by pirates. Logically they vote in favor of staying in Uk because they have been there for 300 years. It would be surreal if they voted otherwise.
I was very "Gibraltar español" until I was there.
In any case, from what I understand, UK entered the EU before Spain, and established EU-Gibraltar relations, establishing their exceptional circumstances which we could not object to as we entered later
If you leave the association is normal to return to the original situation. Dealing between the two countries.
Send to the Navy and all that you said is incredibly exaggerated and does not correspond to the current climate in the area.
In any case the priority of Spain is to keep its 20 million British tourists, not to raise the tension with Gibraltar.
If only...You were not so brave with Hong Kong
It’s been in British hands for hundreds of years and the will of the people living there (just as with the Falklands) is the priority. As for the ‘illegally occupied’ Falkland Islands .. nope, Argentina has very weak claims and always has done.
I understand the need to re-establish previous arrangements if we are to leave the EU, the point is these arrangements should leave no room for debate on future sovereignty. May seems to be reasserting that we will protect Gibraltar’s interests, but I struggle to have faith in her.
I never said send in the navy now .. I responded to a suggestion Spain could merely starve Gibraltar (which would be an act of war) by pointing out we have one of the worlds most powerful navies at our disposal. Which could be easily used to keep it supplied.
My suggestion has never been go to war with Spain, but that it should be made clear we are prepared to do so if Gibraltar’s sovereignty is questioned, just as we did with the Falklands. I hope zero room for debate is left and we take the Thatcher approach of no negotiation when it comes to the rights of British citizens.
I’d much prefer that but if we must go down the Brexit route then the lives of all British citizens must be totally safeguarded .. Be it those in Gibraltar or the Falklands. I don’t trust spineless May to do so. Especially when the Spanish PM is crowing about how this opens up future talks on sovereignty.
Of course remaining in the EU would be the easiest way to solve all this, but let’s face it that isn’t going to happen.
Europe on a war footing? Putin would be only delighted.
Nobody is on a war footing. Spain couldn’t fight a war against the U.K in a million years, they would never actually do anything to risk conflict.
It’s just a case of asserting that there will be zero question about Gibraltar’s sovereignty, and showing that the armed forces are prepared to defend it if necessary.
We can’t afford to look weak or make little concessions. Before you know it Argentina will start piping up again.
... So, how would armed forces "flexing" not be a war footing?
Spain: "It's ok folks, they're only messing. There's absolutely no need for us to flex in a similar way and we definitely won't do that. Nope. No way. No responding in kind here. It's not like there's any historical precedent of armed conflict between our nations or anything".
It's Yoel Romero.
The flex thing was a joke .. I should probably have made it clearer tbf. Although, moving a couple of subs in to the area wouldn’t be a war footing, merely a bolstering of defences.
There hasn’t been armed conflict between Spain/U.K for a very long time. Spain hasn’t had the ability to flex against any major European nation for centuries. What exactly can they do?
The motto of our navy is ‘If you want peace, prepare for war’. I’m just saying we should be ready for anything.
I’m with @SquishyMcSquish
If Gibraltar overwhelmingly want to remain a British territory, we have a duty to protect them and they have a right to that protection. He isn’t saying we need to start world war three, but at the same time you can’t roll over and have you belly tickled every time someone wants something off you. I don’t see what’s controversial about that.
If Gibraltar overwhelmingly want to remain a British territory, we have a duty to protect them and they have a right to that protection. He isn’t saying we need to start world war three, but at the same time you can’t roll over and have you belly tickled every time someone wants something off you. I don’t see what’s controversial about that.
I’m pretty sure most posters in here would absolutely have surrendered the Falklands without a shot fired.
Our position should be pretty clear. There is no question of ever discussing sovereignty unless the people of Gibraltar ever have a radical change of heart. Any talk of it before that is an insult to the U.K and the wishes of British citizens.
If Spain can’t accept that, then yes it should be made perfectly clear we are prepared to use military force to defend Gibraltar. It’s not an unreasonable position at all.