Varchester City 18/19 discussion

Wonderfully coached team. They are exciting to watch. A team with a clear style of play that interlinks in a fluid system. Full respect to Guardiola.
 
Can23 said:
By joining a team in a league that's not the favourite and not spending a vast amount of money. If he went to Napoli for example and did what he was doing with Man City or even close he'd shake off that tag. Obviously Liverpool fans want to win the league like many other teams.

You're the only team with spending comparable to Cities and look where you are.
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The last sentence undermines the moneybags argument.

Ranieri won the legue with Leicester and no one thinks he's even remotely as good as Guardiola.

No one expected City to win 100 pts last season. It seemed impossible. They did not have Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Alves, Busquets, etc. Yet they won 100 pts. This is what the likes of Ranieri never could do.
 
Treble said:
The last sentence undermines the moneybags argument.

Ranieri won the legue with Leicester and no one thinks he's even remotely as good as Guardiola.

No one expected City to win 100 pts last season. It seemed impossible. They did not have Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Alves, Busquets, etc. Yet they won 100 pts. This is what the likes of Ranieri never could do.
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For me Ranieri is better than Guardiola.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
For me Ranieri is better than Guardiola.
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Not sure if serious but kudos for not being afraid of saying this.

Why is Ranieri managing Fulham if he is better than Guardiola though - and not Bayern, Barca, Madrid, Juve? Because people at those clubs don't get football?
 
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If you adjust for inflation (United have had to rebuild entire squad during player price inflation) United outlay is nowhere near city’s.
 
Mr PG said:
If you adjust for inflation (United have had to rebuild entire squad during player price inflation) United outlay is nowhere near city’s.
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That excuse wouldn't fly. Even the players we bought have question marks about them? We lack a visionary approach to spending money. They have had to buy attackers, defenders and midfielders in the same inflation-ridden market as us. Sane, Jesus and Bernado were bought in the same market remember.

Aguero has had to adjust his game but before he did, Jesus started way more games than him and there were rumours that he would be dumped much the same way a legendary figure for them in Joe Hart was. They improvised and turned attackers to midfielders so that they wouldn't have to go big on Pogba also.
 
We
Bearded One said:
That excuse wouldn't fly. Even the players we bought have question marks about them? We lack a visionary approach to spending money. They have had to buy attackers, defenders and midfielders in the same inflation-ridden market as us. Sane, Jesus and Bernado were bought in the same market remember.

Aguero has had to adjust his game but before he did, Jesus started way more games than him and there were rumours that he would be dumped much the same way a legendary figure for them in Joe Hart was. They improvised and turned attackers to midfielders so that they wouldn't have to go big on Pogba also.
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we look worse due to the back line. Shaw, Smalling, Young wouldn’t get into any other top 6 team.

Not even Fergie would thrive with those defenders. Affects whole team as set up to protect the defense
 
Mr PG said:
We

we look worse due to the back line. Shaw, Smalling, Young wouldn’t get into any other top 6 team.

Not even Fergie would thrive with those defenders. Affects whole team as set up to protect the defense
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I agree with you that our back 4 leaves a lot to be desired. However there are question marks around about every one we have signed in this era. Whether the problem is talent management or use of funds or somewhere in the middle of the aformentioned points is debate for another day.
 
Mr PG said:
We look worse due to the back line. Shaw, Smalling, Young wouldn’t get into any other top 6 team.

Not even Fergie would thrive with those defenders. Affects whole team as set up to protect the defense
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The backline was a mess on the day of Jose's arrival at the club. We are now 3 years into his reign and there is no visible sign of improvement in that area - some would argue that is has regressed.

He should be sacked for gross negligence.
 
City need to focus on Cham L. winning the big trophy lets say twice! will make them as big european club. They have big chances this year and next years.
 
Stacks said:
Did he not get sacked from Chelsea whilst spending unprecedented amounts in that era? EPL sides are richer compared with then so there is more competition to City than when Chelsea emerged.
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Treble said:
Not sure if serious but kudos for not being afraid of saying this.

Why is Ranieri managing Fulham if he is better than Guardiola though - and not Bayern, Barca, Madrid, Juve? Because people at those clubs don't get football?
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b20times said:
At what? Getting the sack?
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Ranieri has won the league with fecking Leicester City....with four very good players and the rest of the squad was average.......better than Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in final table........and he hasn't spend 100m like Jovanovic with Fulham.

Guardiola is a great coach no doubt and his football is very good no doubt too.
But he has trained the best ever Barca squad, best ever Bayern Munich squad and best ever Manchester City squad.
To coach top top top top clubs/squads is surely a tough job too but i would like to see what he would do for example at Everton or Lazio or Mönchengladbach.

Coaches like Howe at Bournemouth or Streich at Freiburg are doing at least a good job as Guardiola.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Ranieri has won the league with fecking Leicester City....with four very good players and the rest of the squad was average.......better than Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in final table........and he hasn't spend 100m like Jovanovic with Fulham.

Guardiola is a great coach no doubt and his football is very good no doubt too.
But he has trained the best ever Barca squad, best ever Bayern Munich squad and best ever Manchester City squad.
To coach top top top top clubs/squads is surely a tough job too but i would like to see what he would do for example at Everton or Lazio or Mönchengladbach.

Coaches like Howe at Bournemouth or Streich at Freiburg are doing at least a good job as Guardiola.
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He's already admitted he wouldn't win the league with lower table clubs but like lots of people I'd believe he'd improve individual players
 
Can't wait till we sack Pep and hire Claudio Ranieri... jesus wept.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Ranieri has won the league with fecking Leicester City....with four very good players and the rest of the squad was average.......better than Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in final table........and he hasn't spend 100m like Jovanovic with Fulham.

Guardiola is a great coach no doubt and his football is very good no doubt too.
But he has trained the best ever Barca squad, best ever Bayern Munich squad and best ever Manchester City squad.
To coach top top top top clubs/squads is surely a tough job too but i would like to see what he would do for example at Everton or Lazio or Mönchengladbach.

Coaches like Howe at Bournemouth or Streich at Freiburg are doing at least a good job as Guardiola.
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I dont think you realise how tough it is actually. Expectations are big, pressure is huge, the mentality of star players is difficult to handle, the competition is strong, etc.

It's not like: jeeez, Ranieri won 81 pts with fecking Leicester, if you give him Chelsea's squad he will win 101 pts. It doesn't work like that. He was managing Chelsea when Abramovich invested 150m in the team in season 2003/04 which is about 500m in today's money. And Ranieri got sacked.

It's a widespread fallacy to assume that if a manager does well with modest resources, he'll be flying with huge resources. Nope, it's very difficult to succeed at big clubs. Ancelotti went to Bayern immediately after Guardiola and didn't fare well.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Ranieri has won the league with fecking Leicester City....with four very good players and the rest of the squad was average.......better than Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in final table........and he hasn't spend 100m like Jovanovic with Fulham.

Guardiola is a great coach no doubt and his football is very good no doubt too.
But he has trained the best ever Barca squad, best ever Bayern Munich squad and best ever Manchester City squad.
To coach top top top top clubs/squads is surely a tough job too but i would like to see what he would do for example at Everton or Lazio or Mönchengladbach.

Coaches like Howe at Bournemouth or Streich at Freiburg are doing at least a good job as Guardiola.
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What else has Ranieri won? It was a great achievement, a one off and for sure a better achievment (singular) than the others but I cannot help but think you are trolling.
 
Stacks said:
What else has Ranieri won? It was a great achievement, a one off and for sure a better achievment (singular) than the others but I cannot help but think you are trolling.
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I think he wants to see how Guardiola does with limited resources. He is a top coach no doubt but not every coach has the luxury to pick whoever he wants.

He has backups worth 50m.
 
Thunderhead said:
He's already admitted he wouldn't win the league with lower table clubs but like lots of people I'd believe he'd improve individual players
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I agree with this but it depends on how much a player wants to change their game the way Pep wants. Players at Bayern didn't benefit from his philosophies.
 
GhastlyHun said:
Most interesting. Good they didn't notice at the time.
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Oh so which player at Bayern raised/improved their game after that 2013 season? Better to improve my knowledge because you would know better about Bayern than me.
 
Stacks said:
What else has Ranieri won? It was a great achievement, a one off and for sure a better achievment (singular) than the others but I cannot help but think you are trolling.
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What else????? To win the Premier League with Leicester is at least so good as to win twice the Champions League with the best ever Barca side in my opinion.
Yes he also won league titles but to win three times the Bundesliga must be normal and to win at least once the Premiership in two attempts with such an outstanding Manchester City squad should be "normal" too.
ayushreddevil9 said:
I think he wants to see how Guardiola does with limited resources. He is a top coach no doubt but not every coach has the luxury to pick whoever he wants.

He has backups worth 50m.
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Yes yes yes that is my point....i just would like to see that.
 
Stacks said:
What else has Ranieri won? It was a great achievement, a one off and for sure a better achievment (singular) than the others but I cannot help but think you are trolling.
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Worth remembering probably Ranieri's worst moment, when he arrived at Valencia and bought a sack of crap from Serie A for inflated prices, and benched Aimar, their best player in the process. It was hilarious, especially considering Valencia won the league and UEFA cup double prior to his arrival.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
What else????? To win the Premier League with Leicester is at least so good as to win twice the Champions League with the best ever Barca side in my opinion..
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A one in a million freak season doesn't prove that someone is a great manager without any consistent greatness before or afterwards.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Oh so which player at Bayern raised/improved their game after that 2013 season? Better to improve my knowledge because you would know better about Bayern than me.
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You'll hardly find a former or active Bayern player who'd say they did not develop further in terms of movement and understanding the game. Or what do you want to hear? Sure, we all know that we didn't repeat the success of our single most successful season. But, except for 13-14, where the team was still transitioning from one style to another and got broken apart by Real for it, nobody could have complained too much if we had taken it all again.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Ranieri has won the league with fecking Leicester City....with four very good players and the rest of the squad was average.......better than Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and Everton in final table........and he hasn't spend 100m like Jovanovic with Fulham.
Guardiola is a great coach no doubt and his football is very good no doubt too.
But he has trained the best ever Barca squad, best ever Bayern Munich squad and best ever Manchester City squad.
To coach top top top top clubs/squads is surely a tough job too but i would like to see what he would do for example at Everton or Lazio or Mönchengladbach.

Coaches like Howe at Bournemouth or Streich at Freiburg are doing at least a good job as Guardiola.
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Needs to be said that Ranieri coached for 30yrs as coach of teams like Chelsea, Napoli Juventus Valencia, Fiorentina, Roma Inter Monaco without winning a league title with them

The wrecking job he did at Valencia was remarkable, they had just won the La Liga and Europa with Benitez next think Ranieri brought a bunch of Italians like Corradi, Divaio, Fiore benched the best player Aimar and was fired after crashing out of UEFA cup to Steau Bucharest

Many top clubs are searching for coaches and no one is considering Ranieri
I remember how easy it is to make an argument that given what Moyes was doing at Everton, he will do wonders at a bigger club.
 
red4ever 79 said:
Wonderfully coached team. They are exciting to watch. A team with a clear style of play that interlinks in a fluid system. Full respect to Guardiola.
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I have ZERO respect for Guardiola. By working under the owners regime, he is condoning and promoting, slavery, murder and torture.
Absolute hypocrite to fight for his own people, then casually ignore millions of people that are in a hellish situation.
No morals whatsoever.
 
OldSchoolManc said:
I have ZERO respect for Guardiola. By working under the owners regime, he is condoning and promoting, slavery, murder and torture.
Absolute hypocrite to fight for his own people, then casually ignore millions of people that are in a hellish situation.
No morals whatsoever.
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You're sending that from a device which is made, at least in part, by modern slavery: Where suicide nets are put in place rather than improving conditions, just so people have no choice but to work themselves to the ground to cheap your gadgets cheap. Where workers on the edge are told their families will be made homeless if they do anything but work the unreasonable days. Likelihood is that your wardrobe is also stacked to the brim with sweatshop merchandise, you power your vehicle(s) with fuel that was, in part, the spoils of an unjust war, and so much more besides.

Yeah, City's owners are a certain extreme, but you, me, & everyone else already turns a blind eye to so much shite in our daily lives that I can't take any criticism of their ownership too seriously, because we're all hypocrites anyway. If UAE wanted to take over Liverpool & pump those sort of numbers into our club, I'd accept in a heartbeat. Would I care about where the money came from? No more or less than I'd care about the origins of pretty much every electronic device in my house.

I wish people would just accept that their disdain for City comes, first & foremost, from rivalries, secondly, from their stomping of the league, and then, in a far distant third, the moral-state of their ownership. The overwhelming majority of football fans wouldn't give a shite about where the money came if they found themselves in City's position, and those that say they would are likely only doing so because of points 1 & 2. They'd almost universally come around eventually.
 
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Anything less than a double for them this season, title and Champions League seems like a "failure" for them. Anyway thank god for Man City and Pep Guardiola, I have no doubt that if this was any other City teams without Pep, Liverpool would have run away with the league this season.
 
Foxtrot said:
Anything less than a double for them this season, title and Champions League seems like a "failure" for them. Anyway thank god for Man City and Pep Guardiola, I have no doubt that if this was any other City teams without Pep, Liverpool would have run away with the league this season.
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disagree. There are other teams in Europe who are just as strong so I don't see how winning your domestic league is a failure. United only won 2 CL in like 15 years despite winning the EPL multiple times and was not considered a failure. The goal posts being moved
 
The way the team shares the workload upfront is very impressive. Everyone is scoring and everyone is assisting . Difficult to find this at other clubs
 
Treble said:
Ancelotti went to Bayern immediately after Guardiola and didn't fare well.
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Ancelotti won the league in his first season at Bayern while also completely changing their playing style. This shows how completely lob sided the BL was at the time.

Foxtrot said:
Anything less than a double for them this season, title and Champions League seems like a "failure" for them.
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Anything less than a domestic treble or PL & CL double is a failure. When you factor in a near 700M spend & the general poor standard of teams in the PL at the minute a domestic treble is fairly easy. The CL is harder but it is also poorer than it has been for a number of years.
 
It's utter nonsense to say that there is a general poor standard among premier league teams at the moment.
Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool are all having their best ever starts to a PL season and while City are 2 points down on where they stood after 13 games last year, they have played more top 6 sides and have taken more points against those teams so far.

So, the Premier League has never been stronger . . . and the reason for our bitter angst is that other clubs have improved while we've stood still.

It's not even a money thing either. There are six teams above us, including Spurs and Everton, so it looks daft when some of our supporters point at City's spending.
 
Denis_unwise said:
Ancelotti won the league in his first season at Bayern while also completely changing their playing style. This shows how completely lob sided the BL was at the time.



Anything less than a domestic treble or PL & CL double is a failure. When you factor in a near 700M spend & the general poor standard of teams in the PL at the minute a domestic treble is fairly easy. The CL is harder but it is also poorer than it has been for a number of years.
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The PL has never been better than at the moment. Finally it combines modern tactics and long term management with the financial prowess it always possessed.
 
Bob H from Manchester said:
It's utter nonsense to say that there is a general poor standard among premier league teams at the moment.
Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool are all having their best ever starts to a PL season and while City are 2 points down on where they stood after 13 games last year, they have played more top 6 sides and have taken more points against those teams so far.

So, the Premier League has never been stronger . . . and the reason for our bitter angst is that other clubs have improved while we've stood still.

It's not even a money thing either. There are six teams above us, including Spurs and Everton, so it looks daft when some of our supporters point at City's spending.
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Bottom teams are weaker than in recent memories. Right now there are 8 teams with less points than games played. It is becoming boring to watch top-5 teams play the bottom half as the results have become more predictable than in recent years.
 
Zehner said:
The PL has never been better than at the moment. Finally it combines modern tactics and long term management with the financial prowess it always possessed.
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What happened in the late 2000s then with Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and United getting to several CL finals and semifinals?

Did they do it without ‘modern tactics’? Were they worse than they are now?
 
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