Champions League Round of 16 (12th Feb - 13th Mar)

Lyricist said:
Tonight wasn’t a good example of german teams in Europe. Usually german teams give it a real go to then make really dumb mistakes and feck it up. Look at Hoffenheim or Gladbach or even Bayern against Real and Atletico. That’s typical. Dortmund tonight looked like they were playing a Europa league qualifier against FK Baku. They were a disgrace.
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Yeah, this is what I'm referring to. Even if you have injuries you expect those coming in to offer intensity and work rate, tonight they reminded me of us in the first half against Palace!

We were shite and disjointed vs Chelsea in the caraboa cup and missing the spine of our team, but the intensity was still present and we still made the game competitive. Dortmund in the first half were very good and if anything the better side, but then just folded second half.
 
Peyroteo said:
Bayern last year aside you’ve been the better team in pretty much every single match you won in the past few years.

Can’t think of any other win like this in the past 3 CLs.
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Really? PSG played us off the park at the bernabeu last year right until we scored a jammy goal. Our equilizer came on a blatant dive, while 2 meters offside. Juventus beat us 3-1 at the bernabeu, where we needed a last second penalty. In the first leg, they battered us for an hour while failing to take their chances

Two years ago Napolo had us in real trouble in the second leg until Sergio came to the rescue. We beat bayern thanks to the ref. 3 years ago, Roma, Wolfsburg....

Seriously man, this is nothing new. Not even a rare exception. We do this every season, repeatedly
 
Was it last season when there were all kinds of comebacks in the CL? 3-0 wasn't a safe win at all. :lol:
 
hasanejaz88 said:
EPL has been crap in Europe since Chelsea won in 2012. Only last year Pool reached the final but before that I can't remember anyone other than City one year who reached the semi-final. Atleast Bayern have consistently reached the semi-final for the last good few years. Dortmund also reached the quarterfinals a couple of times, one when they had the attack on their bus before a match.
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Yeah, the Premier League has not been good in Europe for a while, and I do think we had a massive decline in the own quality of our league for a while. That looks to be shifting now and I think we have a number of teams who can compete, particularly Liverpool who already reached a final and Manchester City are one of the strongest in Europe.

Bundesliga only a few seasons or so back was very strong, particularly when you had both dortmund/bayern in a final, but now I feel Bayern has massively declined and whilst Dortmund are good, are they really good enough to compete with Europe's elite?
 
VorZakone said:
Was it last season when there were all kinds of comebacks in the CL? 3-0 wasn't a safe win at all. :lol:
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True, we can probably still feck this up.

I just can't see us not scoring in Dortmund with Kane/Alli back in the team. We'll play it on the counter as well where we should excel, and just one goal would basically kill the tie.
 
Peyroteo said:
Bayern last year aside you’ve been the better team in pretty much every single match you won in the past few years.

Can’t think of any other win like this in the past 3 CLs.
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They squeezed through a knockout tie many times. I recall Bayern (2 times), Juve last year, Wolfsburg, City... And of course both finals with Atletico. (Didn't they score an offside goal in one of these? Imagine the scenes if it was Barca.) So many ties where the game was even, and somehow they always managed to get through. There's some truth in them being strong in crucial moments, but they've also been incredibly lucky.

Football is not a game where you're supposed to turn every even tie in your favour. They've simply been jammy and vastly overrated. A great team, but never really dominant or exceptional as their European record would suggest.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
You don't nearly the same amount of important players out. Kane, Alli, Davies vs Reus, Paco, Akanji, Weigl and Pizseck.
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NotNo single one of those players is even close to Dele, let alone Kane. I love Reus, but he's just not the same player anymore even when "healthy" and the rest are just random filler.

And you listed Pizseck? Him being hurt helps BVB those days.
 
Injuries or not, this didn’t seem to me like a case of Dortmund’s second string trying but not being good enough. This seemed more like a case of Dortmund fielding a goalie and 10 disinterested Özils.
Credit to Spurs of course. But I refuse to accept that this is Dortmund’s level. That was a relegation candidate’s or Championship/League One team’s second half.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Yeah, the Premier League has not been good in Europe for a while, and I do think we had a massive decline in the own quality of our league for a while. That looks to be shifting now and I think we have a number of teams who can compete, particularly Liverpool who already reached a final and Manchester City are one of the strongest in Europe.

Bundesliga only a few seasons or so back was very strong, particularly when you had both dortmund/bayern in a final, but now I feel Bayern has massively declined and whilst Dortmund are good, are they really good enough to compete with Europe's elite?
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If you exclude last season, where Liverpool reached the final, the BL had outperformed the EPL in Europe. So yea, the EPL is back on the rise while the BL is falling, I do agree with that. EPL and La Liga are the top two and then BL, Seria A and Ligue 1 close together.
 
vadimivich said:
NotNo single one of those players is even close to Dele, let alone Kane. I love Reus, but he's just not the same player anymore even when "healthy" and the rest are just random filler.

And you listed Pizseck? Him being hurt helps BVB those days.
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Reus is having one of the best seasons of his career and Akanji is their best defender.
 
vadimivich said:
NotNo single one of those players is even close to Dele, let alone Kane. I love Reus, but he's just not the same player anymore even when "healthy" and the rest are just random filler.

And you listed Pizseck? Him being hurt helps BVB those days.
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That’s just a confession that you’re guessing into the blue. Reus is the best player in the Bundesliga this Season. Since the start of the season he’s been player of the month 3 times.
 
vadimivich said:
NotNo single one of those players is even close to Dele, let alone Kane. I love Reus, but he's just not the same player anymore even when "healthy" and the rest are just random filler.

And you listed Pizseck? Him being hurt helps BVB those days.
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Have you watched Piszczek in the weeks before his injury? Key player, looked like his old self again, massive loss. Reus also on par with his career best, in some ways even better.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
If you exclude last season, where Liverpool reached the final, the BL had outperformed the EPL in Europe. So yea, the EPL is back on the rise while the BL is falling, I do agree with that. EPL and La Liga are the top two and then BL, Seria A and Ligue 1 close together.
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EPL picked up more coefficient points in 16/17 than the Bundesliga, and then far more in 17/18 .. looks like we'll pick up more points this year as well.

La Liga has been far, far ahead of the rest in terms of European competition, hopefully on the decline now because Madrid/Barca/Atletico for a time dominated it.
 
giorno said:
Really? PSG played us off the park at the bernabeu last year right until we scored a jammy goal. Our equilizer came on a blatant dive, while 2 meters offside. Juventus beat us 3-1 at the bernabeu, where we needed a last second penalty. In the first leg, they battered us for an hour while failing to take their chances

Two years ago Napolo had us in real trouble in the second leg until Sergio came to the rescue. We beat bayern thanks to the ref. 3 years ago, Roma, Wolfsburg....

Seriously man, this is nothing new. Not even a rare exception. We do this every season, repeatedly
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I remember the 3-4 at home against Schalke. I will never understand how that could possibly happen.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
EPL picked up more coefficient points in 16/17 than the Bundesliga, and then far more in 17/18 .. looks like we'll pick up more points this year as well.

La Liga has been far, far ahead of the rest in terms of European competition, hopefully on the decline now because Madrid/Barca/Atletico for a time dominated it.
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I was referring to the last 5 years, over which the ranking is calculated. This year it has been equal till now. I expect Liverpool and City to beat Bayern and Schalke respectively though so the EPL will go ahead.
 
Lyricist said:
That’s just a confession that you’re guessing into the blue. Reus is the best player in the Bundesliga this Season. Since the start of the season he’s been player of the month 3 times.
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I guarantee I watch / attend more BL matches than nearly anyone posting here. Reus has been sort of the default best player in a very, very down year for the BL. His Performances in the national team and outside the BL show he has lost a yard of pace and just isn't the player he once was, sadly. He's one of my favorite players ever - but he's just not what he was. He's not Dele anymore, and he's sure as shit not Kane (never was that level, even at his best).

And yes, Akanji might be their best defender. Smalling is United's best defender. Doesn't mean he's good.
 
At least that shut Witsel up
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
EPL picked up more coefficient points in 16/17 than the Bundesliga, and then far more in 17/18 .. looks like we'll pick up more points this year as well.

La Liga has been far, far ahead of the rest in terms of European competition, hopefully on the decline now because Madrid/Barca/Atletico for a time dominated it.
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Already said it the other day.

The level of Serie A or Bundesliga is similar, in no way the top teams in Germany are better than at Serie A. La Liga and EPL are the best but I still think the technical level of La Liga teams is better, at least if we compare with teams outside the top 6 in England.
 
Love him or hate him, Poch got his tactics and formation spot on tonight against a team that, on paper, were superior. Unbelievable result with 3 big players out. Got to give credit where it’s due.
 
vadimivich said:
I guarantee I watch / attend more BL matches than nearly anyone posting here. Reus has been sort of the default best player in a very, very down year for the BL. His Performances in the national team and outside the BL show he has lost a yard of pace and just isn't the player he once was, sadly. He's one of my favorite players ever - but he's just not what he was. He's not Dele anymore, and he's sure as shit not Kane (never was that level, even at his best).

And yes, Akanji might be their best defender. Smalling is United's best defender. Doesn't mean he's good.
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I'm sorry but Reus during the few years where Bundesliga clubs were actually worth something in Europe was second to none for German players (aside from Neuer). No offence to Kane or Alli, but I don't recall either of those taking Tottenham to a CL final before, or pretty much single handedly smashing Real Madrid like 3 seasons in a row. Not to say Reus is or was better than Kane is, but at his top he's no worse either. Only the fact that he missed both international competitions due to injury between 2014 and 2016 even gives you a chance to say Reus was "never on that level". Reus at his best is a world class player. This season Reus is on 13 goals and 9 assists in 19 league games. To say he's not what he used to be is outrageous. That said, you're right, he's lost a yard of pace. But CR7 losing his frightening dribbling from his United days didn't stop his Real career either.

According to Transfermarkt Reus has featured in 35 CL games in his career, scoring 17 goals and assisting another 14. Out of these goals, the only ones he scored against weak opposition were 2 against Legia.
For Dortmund as a whole he's scored 113 goals and assisted 73 in 231 games.
The guy is not a center forward. Plus he does it in the big games as well.
 
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Wouldn't have minded losing to Madrid on the counter on end quality product except that the VAR spoiled it... that first disallowed goal should have counted where it appeared they were looking for a reason to disallow it while the second Madrid goal did involve an actual disregarded foul on De Jong which was disregarded for some reason. The referee and VAR team seemed to be very afraid to decide against the richest team. In the worst case, you either disallow both or allow both. Yet Ajax lacked a bit of quality to kill it in the final pass or final chance, despite the better game, the killing quality which Real had, but it still deserved a 2-2 draw or 2-1 win with a little bit more of luck or refereeing not indulgent to Real.
 
Once again the importance of a technical, mobile midfield combination proves so important in Europe, Eriksen coming inside to pair up with Winks in the second half took control of the game and they just dominated Dortmund from then on.

The English commentary was hilarious though, Spurs might be without Kane and Dele but Son, Eriksen and Moura aren't some bums they found camping outside, and they were playing a depleted Dortmund team with a number of youngsters in it, this wasn't Juve or Barca they were facing, yet you'd think Spurs were in the Alamo the way Savage and Fletcher went on. Meanwhile Dortmund were without both of their main goal scorers, playing without a striker and relying on two teenage wingers to win the game for them, something that they only paid passing lip service to.
 
giorno said:
Really? PSG played us off the park at the bernabeu last year right until we scored a jammy goal. Our equilizer came on a blatant dive, while 2 meters offside. Juventus beat us 3-1 at the bernabeu, where we needed a last second penalty. In the first leg, they battered us for an hour while failing to take their chances

Two years ago Napolo had us in real trouble in the second leg until Sergio came to the rescue. We beat bayern thanks to the ref. 3 years ago, Roma, Wolfsburg....

Seriously man, this is nothing new. Not even a rare exception. We do this every season, repeatedly
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It's Champions League though, where the strongest teams in Europe play. It would be weird not to find a few examples in the last 5 seasons.

Somehow people take everything to the extreme in football. They imagine winners being completely dominant, winning everything without effort and suffering. That's never going to be the case.
 
Football > Politics.




:D UK with the early lead. Go Spurs!
 
Random Task said:
Nice timing with this post :p
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Haha yeah, game certainly picked up a couple notches in the second half.

Can23 said:
Really? Spurs fully deserved that scoreline, destroyed them in the 2nd half

I did find it annoying how many times Spurs' injuries were mentioned Dortmund's injury list is far worse
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I agree, first half both teams seemed like they were slumbering with Dortmund edging it without committing too many forward in attack. Second half Spurs took the game up a couple notches and Dortmund could not cope, fully deserved the win.

Im not sure Dortmund, even at home, have enough firepower to make up a 3 goal deficit with Kane and Alli back in the Spurs team.
 
Stocar said:
They squeezed through a knockout tie many times. I recall Bayern (2 times), Juve last year, Wolfsburg, City... And of course both finals with Atletico. (Didn't they score an offside goal in one of these? Imagine the scenes if it was Barca.) So many ties where the game was even, and somehow they always managed to get through. There's some truth in them being strong in crucial moments, but they've also been incredibly lucky.

Football is not a game where you're supposed to turn every even tie in your favour. They've simply been jammy and vastly overrated. A great team, but never really dominant or exceptional as their European record would suggest.
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They were clearly the better team vs Wolfsburg, City, Bayern in 2017 and in both Atlético finals though... it’s not true at all that they’ve won it while not being the better team.

Things went their way in balanced ties but it’s not like they’ve been winning ties in which they’ve been worse than the opposition, that only happened vs Bayern last season.
 
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giorno said:
Really? PSG played us off the park at the bernabeu last year right until we scored a jammy goal. Our equilizer came on a blatant dive, while 2 meters offside. Juventus beat us 3-1 at the bernabeu, where we needed a last second penalty. In the first leg, they battered us for an hour while failing to take their chances

Two years ago Napolo had us in real trouble in the second leg until Sergio came to the rescue. We beat bayern thanks to the ref. 3 years ago, Roma, Wolfsburg....

Seriously man, this is nothing new. Not even a rare exception. We do this every season, repeatedly
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Not true at all, you were the better team in pretty much every single one of those games.

Your goals just came with fantastic timing over and over again and often completely changed the momentum of the game.

It happened vs PSG, Juventus, etc. they might have been dominating for long periods but overall you went through after being the better team overall.

Before today, Bayern away last season is the only game I can think of in the past 3 CLs that you won while being second best.
 
Peyroteo said:
They were clearly the better team vs Wolfsburg, City, Bayern in 2017 and in both Atlético finals though... it’s not true at all that they’ve won it while not being the better team.

Things went their way in balanced ties but it’s not like they’ve been winning ties in which they’ve been worse than the opposition, that only happened vs Bayern last season.
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They are a great team with many strengths, but they have definitely overachieved in Europe. They simply had a streak where everything turned into gold for them. And judging by tonight, it still seems to linger a bit, but the question is for how much longer.

Wouldn't say they were necessarily a better team in all those ties, those were all quite even. Except maybe first final with Atletico, where they attacked incessantly and were rewarded at the end.
 
Fantastic performance from Spurs, without Kane and Ali too. Well done.
 
George The Best said:
Love him or hate him, Poch got his tactics and formation spot on tonight against a team that, on paper, were superior. Unbelievable result with 3 big players out. Got to give credit where it’s due.
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Dortmund were missing tons of players as well. Tottenham were still the heavy favorites at home.
 
PoTMS said:
Really puts our piss poor performance to shame.
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It does. But Spurs have been coached by this manager as per his own vision for years now. They've performed against the likes of Madrid and Barcelona as well. On the other hand we've been pissing about being a general mess and have got one extremely jammy win at Juve to shout about. Not to mention that Ole has had two months to ingrain his own ideas.

Pochettino may well be the better manager and right fit for us, but it's unfair to compare the two performances too seriously. Also has to be said that PSG are miles better than Dortmund.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Alcacer and Weigl aren't starters :rolleyes:

And to take injuries as excuse is a lose mentality (unless 12-13 players are injured).

To bring on Schmelzer (instead of Guerreiro) for Zagadou was :wenger: from Favre.
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Weigl has been starting every game this year at CB in place of Zagadou. With Weigl being out, Favre was forced to play an unfit Zagadou at CB. Paco is not a consistent starter (as I said in another post), but he has been an amazing player coming off the bench for Dortmund.

Yea, I agree bringing on Schmelzer instead of Guerreiro was wacky from Favre.
 
Peyroteo said:
They were clearly the better team vs Wolfsburg, City, Bayern in 2017 and in both Atlético finals though... it’s not true at all that they’ve won it while not being the better team.

Things went their way in balanced ties but it’s not like they’ve been winning ties in which they’ve been worse than the opposition, that only happened vs Bayern last season.
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I don't think people know what they talk about when they include City among the draws being even. I perfectly remember those games and City were quite a lot worse both in the Etihad and the Bernabeu. I also checked out the stats and Madrid ended the draw with 28 shots to City's 9, 13 to 4 in the first leg, and 15 to 5 in the second one.
 
Any idea what is this "Butter on bread" goal celebration from Asensio yesterday??
 
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