And to add, it's one thing having great tactics, but the ability to enforce it in the team, having the team believe in your tactics and execute them is probably more important than the tactics themself. And this is where I am thoroughly impressed by Ole.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer | W15 D2 L4
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
And to add, it's one thing having great tactics, but the ability to enforce it in the team, having the team believe in your tactics and execute them is probably more important than the tactics themself. And this is where I am thoroughly impressed by Ole.
God I hope not. I despise them on a personal level. Rather have city win. Not Liverpool thoI hope we damage City and Liverpool just enough so Spurs can nick the title
It goes both ways though. Some have took Ole's 2 months to compare Poch's years with and used it as a stick to beat Poch with. Poch is a top class manager while Ole is still so far "proving to be" a top class manager. So far so good but in Football things change very, very fast. I believe we should keep backing Ole but it's important not to get delusional
If we win the FA cup this season that's arguably better than anything Poch has done at Spurs.
Clubs like Man United would have a successful season (with the high standards you hold Ole to), by winning a FA cup and finishing top 4. Whereas the lower standards you hold Poch to, he doesn't need to win an FA cup or anything.
True that it goes both ways. Football is tribal.
This.
Tactics give the premises on how the games are executed. What wins them are the worriors fighting for it because they belive in it. This is where Ole nails it on the aspect of man management.
Faith can make up a whole lot of ground on non optimal tactics. Not saying Ole’s tactics hasn’t been optimal though, but it seems to me like tactics takes too much room in these discussions.
It has also been argued that hiring Ole is the romantic choice.
Hell yeah! Don’t we put our hearts into this? He can be the fecking love of our lives. Do not let him slip away before he’s been given a proper chance.
Most of the recent posts in this thread has been good.
Concur with the rest of your post but what I suspect will happen is that regardless of the results against those three teams, we will happily concede possession and play counter attacking football.
I'm not against that for pragmatic reasons and because of the lack of time OGS has had so far but I've not seen much thus far to suggest slightly more nuanced tactics. E.g deliberately slowing the game down by asking for control, not setting up to defend deep and play on breaks, ask for more possession play from the midfield, high line/organised press etc, playing it from the back. I realise, half of those things I would like to see (even in tiny amounts) is out of OGS' control due to player personnel and time. It's a high standard because I expect a high standard from the next Utd manager. I'm not criticising OGS for that, I'm just waiting to see how it pans out until the end of the season before I start making concrete assumptions.
Concur with the rest of your post but what I suspect will happen is that regardless of the results against those three teams, we will happily concede possession and play counter attacking football.
I'm not against that for pragmatic reasons and because of the lack of time OGS has had so far but I've not seen much thus far to suggest slightly more nuanced tactics. E.g deliberately slowing the game down by asking for control, not setting up to defend deep and play on breaks, ask for more possession play from the midfield, high line/organised press etc, playing it from the back. I realise, half of those things I would like to see (even in tiny amounts) is out of OGS' control due to player personnel and time. It's a high standard because I expect a high standard from the next Utd manager. I'm not criticising OGS for that, I'm just waiting to see how it pans out until the end of the season before I start making concrete assumptions.
God I hope not. I despise them on a personal level. Rather have city win. Not Liverpool tho
Nutter.
I don't think anyone could say it better than you did, mate.
And I dare say a good portion of United fans, (or at least everyone I have spoken to), feel exactly the same way.
So is OK for you if we beat Liverpool 3-0 on sunday? What if Wolves knock us out in the FA Cup or we get thrashed 4-1 by Man City?
Very much agree. After years and years of pale, unpredictable and straight up lousy excuses we now have OGS which has proven he can win (and every PL game can be lost). 3 more or less failed managerial periods, and now we have one more which not only has shown he loves the club, can play ball, and could be considered one of the best managers (both as a person and coach). And that is supported by the numbers.
Why?
OGS has more managerial experience than Poch
OGS won trophies at every level/club he has managed except Cardiff while Poch has ZERO trophies to his name
OGS knows the club in and out.
OGS knows what it means to be a Manchester United manager
But somehow you prefer Pochettino. Are you related to him?
Last edited:
Yeah I made that post.
Funny part is people expect near perfect game against anyone, completely detached from reality that away games against any top 6 opponents are the toughest games, getting results itself is a good achievement. On top of that Spurs started to created chances only around 60-65th min mark. If you go by CAF's favorite stats, ManUtd led in xG till 65th min.
Anyways here are the records for Pep, Klopp, Poch vs top 6 teams away from home.
Solskjaer has already won 3 away games, scoring 6 goals and conceding just 1.
He didn't even sign anyone, he didn't even have preseason with team. He walked in when the morale was at it's worse, players with no confidence losing so many games. He just changed it completely and even against big teams we have won 3/3 in domestic competitions.
Not to piss on any coach, but if Solskjaer's performance is dissected min by min, half by half vs Spurs away then same should be done for every other coach (who are in contention for the job). Going by the above table, it doesn't look good for anyone.
We're the best performing team in the PL since Ole took over by a 4/7 point margin (Citeh have played 1 game more) and our players are on-board the new project/strategy that leapfrogs the last 4.5 years of misery.
He has the old setup back, SAF on side, the fans... changing this (regardless of who incoming manager would be) would be stupid if not suicidal!
He has the old setup back, SAF on side, the fans... changing this (regardless of who incoming manager would be) would be stupid if not suicidal!
Yeah I made that post.
Funny part is people expect near perfect game against anyone, completely detached from reality that away games against any top 6 opponents are the toughest games, getting results itself is a good achievement. On top of that Spurs started to created chances only around 60-65th min mark. If you go by CAF's favorite stats, ManUtd led in xG till 65th min.
Anyways here are the records for Pep, Klopp, Poch vs top 6 teams away from home.
Solskjaer has already won 3 away games, scoring 6 goals and conceding just 1.
He didn't even sign anyone, he didn't even have preseason with team. He walked in when the morale was at it's worse, players with no confidence losing so many games. He just changed it completely and even against big teams we have won 3/3 in domestic competitions.
Not to piss on any coach, but if Solskjaer's performance is dissected min by min, half by half vs Spurs away then same should be done for every other coach (who are in contention for the job). Going by the above table, it doesn't look good for anyone.
Bravo!
for those of you downplaying the big game wins we have had so far, it's unfair that since we won it they advocate caution and ask for more time to see whether OGS is upto it when they would damned well have been using those games as evidence for why not to hire him if we had found a way to lose them like the psg game they are so keen to read into. Just seems unfair, if we win it is because the opposition is crap and it doesn't count for much but if we lose to those very teams it is because we are crap.
Bless ya, fellow caftard.Yeah I made that post.
Funny part is people expect near perfect game against anyone, completely detached from reality that away games against any top 6 opponents are the toughest games, getting results itself is a good achievement. On top of that Spurs started to created chances only around 60-65th min mark. If you go by CAF's favorite stats, ManUtd led in xG till 65th min.
Anyways here are the records for Pep, Klopp, Poch vs top 6 teams away from home.
Solskjaer has already won 3 away games, scoring 6 goals and conceding just 1.
He didn't even sign anyone, he didn't even have preseason with team. He walked in when the morale was at it's worse, players with no confidence losing so many games. He just changed it completely and even against big teams we have won 3/3 in domestic competitions.
Not to piss on any coach, but if Solskjaer's performance is dissected min by min, half by half vs Spurs away then same should be done for every other coach (who are in contention for the job). Going by the above table, it doesn't look good for anyone.
You have said over multiple posts Poch is better with transfers, better tactically and better at man management (you said he'd get Sanchez and Lukaku looking like players), and to be honest after thats its not much left. Press relations? Talent development?. Also since you prefer him over a club legend, it is pretty evident you rate him higher as a manager
When Pochettino got there is 2014 a lot of the groundwork was laid and continued to do good work there no doubt. In 2014 though we had Giggs as a manager at the time and Wenger had regular boos at Emirates, Chelsea had no less than 5 managers from then to now. In other words, things have not exactly been rosy at the other top clubs which has helped Tottenham climb the table. That bolded part though is exactly why i am a bit skeptical with Poch.
Despite being engulfed in chaos, the other top teams still have managed to pick up some silverware here and there and he has not. Poch is not doubt a fantastic team builder, but i dont think he has the bottle to get over the line when it matters the most.
That's really impressive. Almost as many as Pochettino already.Yeah I made that post.
Funny part is people expect near perfect game against anyone, completely detached from reality that away games against any top 6 opponents are the toughest games, getting results itself is a good achievement. On top of that Spurs started to created chances only around 60-65th min mark. If you go by CAF's favorite stats, ManUtd led in xG till 65th min.
Anyways here are the records for Pep, Klopp, Poch vs top 6 teams away from home.
Solskjaer has already won 3 away games, scoring 6 goals and conceding just 1.
He didn't even sign anyone, he didn't even have preseason with team. He walked in when the morale was at it's worse, players with no confidence losing so many games. He just changed it completely and even against big teams we have won 3/3 in domestic competitions.
Not to piss on any coach, but if Solskjaer's performance is dissected min by min, half by half vs Spurs away then same should be done for every other coach (who are in contention for the job). Going by the above table, it doesn't look good for anyone.
To be fair Glaston alone is reason enough to never wanting Spurs to even have a sniff of winning anything.
Hah. Joking aside, my allegiances lie with the United fans in Manchester, who’ll have to endure the summer alongside City fans being insufferable.
I love Ole. He is my favorite United player. His story at United since he came in is a miracle and fairtyle. Very romantic. Not in my wildest dream could I imagine such as a positive output under his reign. He makes my life. I will be really happy if he continues his adventure at United after May and I will be the staunchest supporter as I could be. As some threads have pointed out, this club is more than just success, that is why I think Mourinho appointment was a disaster from day one. Not to mention fecking Jose asked Duncan Castle, the most corrupt football journalist I have ever seen, to derange the aready wrecking team under LVG.
If it is not Ole, for whatever mysterious reason which I could hardly imagine for the time being, Poch is my man. He is a team builder. Probably the best in that kind since Alex Ferguson. You can see how young players grow and mature massively under his coaching. A lot of coaches are renowed for their so-called mastery in tactics, but the first priority, for which managers should be judged, is their ability to help a player to develop. Poch stands out in that regard. In additon, he has got a character, standing up against challenges and setbacks and never whinning or crying like Jose. That would help to build a sanguine atmosphere at our club.
Both of them are terrific options for United. Ole comes before Poch for me. At least, we will have a manager whose United I would like to watch next season. That is not a bad news.
If it is not Ole, for whatever mysterious reason which I could hardly imagine for the time being, Poch is my man. He is a team builder. Probably the best in that kind since Alex Ferguson. You can see how young players grow and mature massively under his coaching. A lot of coaches are renowed for their so-called mastery in tactics, but the first priority, for which managers should be judged, is their ability to help a player to develop. Poch stands out in that regard. In additon, he has got a character, standing up against challenges and setbacks and never whinning or crying like Jose. That would help to build a sanguine atmosphere at our club.
Both of them are terrific options for United. Ole comes before Poch for me. At least, we will have a manager whose United I would like to watch next season. That is not a bad news.
Agree. I think that is the best argument for keeping Ole.Well, you know what you have, but not what you get
We have tried three different managers.
1. Moyes, the Everton manager which managed to get Everton in the top six. He had decent results over time in the prem, with little money spent, but did not have any trophies(just like Poch). He failed.
2. Van Gall, with his possesion football. The experienced manager with lots of international experience and trophies. He failed.
3. Mou, with his "park the buss" football. Lots of experience from premier league and international football. Winning both the Premier league and the Champions league. He failed.
Now you have Solskjaer. He has taken over just befor Christmas, maybee the hardest period in the Premier league. He has a squad with players bought in from four different managers with different playing styles. He has got no new players to help him play his/our style of football. And still he makes it work! It's working, we are the best team in the Premier league if you isolate the period after he arrived (the Ole table). The players are happy and we love him and the way he wants us to play.
There are countless examples of teames spending deacades to try to get the right manger, after a long period of greatness (Liverpool).
There are countless examples of good managers who fail when they switch clubs. It could be Poch, coming to Manchester United.
So it would be plain stupid to not keep Ole now. If it aint broken, dont fix it!
P.S. we will have some losses and poor results coming up in the prem. Maybe against Liverpool this sunday. Then som more, maybe some shocking results against lesser teams. But unless everything falls apart, we should choose to continue with Ole when the season is done.
Last edited by a moderator:
As long as you avoid Stockport you won't see them.
How good has it been, I usually use the cafe to vent but there is literally nothing to complain about. He's got my full trust and I am back to just being a smitten fan again. This is Fergie wonderland stuff, long may it continue!
FECK that, if Spurs can win it over Shity and Liverfool i'll be over the moon, but the bottlers just wont will they!?God I hope not. I despise them on a personal level. Rather have city win. Not Liverpool tho
I meant most of the tactical managers don't achieve both good football and success, I know there are examples of them achieving one or the other. Personally I don't see Pep as a great tactical manager. He is a great coach who intensely trains his players in a fairly consistent way through his career and buys high quality players who can succeed in his system, then plays it against every team. He's not someone who will significantly change his style to combat an opponent. Maybe you have a different definition of tactics, but that's mine.
I'm not a fan of Allegri, Poch hasn't won anything, Simeone plays anti football, Emery isn't top tier IMO. Tuchel has won one trophy with Dortmund and is currently managing in a one team league with PSG.
Poch took over a team that had qualified for the CL twice in the last 30 years and has now brought them to 4 consecutive CL. And he did it with a real shoestring budget while the club built a new stadium. That beats winning an FA Cup with the second most expensive team in the PL.
Still, not winning even the league cup or FA Cup with that squad is a blot on Poch's CV no matter how you slice it.
The good thing is, he is slowly improving his management skills every season. This season, he's been particularly impressive in motivating a jaded squad with no signings, and has also done well in Europe. Trophies aren't far away, but it might take another club to win them.
Great post. Pochettino's record is surprisingly poor.Yeah I made that post.
Funny part is people expect near perfect game against anyone, completely detached from reality that away games against any top 6 opponents are the toughest games, getting results itself is a good achievement. On top of that Spurs started to created chances only around 60-65th min mark. If you go by CAF's favorite stats, ManUtd led in xG till 65th min.
Anyways here are the records for Pep, Klopp, Poch vs top 6 teams away from home.
Solskjaer has already won 3 away games, scoring 6 goals and conceding just 1.
He didn't even sign anyone, he didn't even have preseason with team. He walked in when the morale was at it's worse, players with no confidence losing so many games. He just changed it completely and even against big teams we have won 3/3 in domestic competitions.
Not to piss on any coach, but if Solskjaer's performance is dissected min by min, half by half vs Spurs away then same should be done for every other coach (who are in contention for the job). Going by the above table, it doesn't look good for anyone.
Comparing their winning percentages:
Poch: 13.6% PL, 16% all
Klopp: 29.4% PL, 31.6% all
Pep: 50% PL, 46.7% all
Solskjaer: 100%
(though obviously a small sample size)Then you'd be wrong. Guardiola certainly trains teams in his plan A to within an inch of their lives, but he is also very tactically astute within games. See exhibit A, Guardiola switching the positions of his CB's to affect the attack. Guardiola makes these kind of changes constantly in games.
I think I do have a definition of tactics to you, by which I mean my definition of tactics is the definition of the word tactics: "an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end". Therefore, in football context, tactics can been described as how a team manages space, time and individual actions to win a game. Any other pseudo-definition is really irrelevant to the conversation.
You also just dismissed the other five managers I pointed out, all of which are managing at the top end of the game. So I'm curious, who do you think are the top managers in the world right now, and how many can you name that aren't at a high level tactically?
Inappropriate Behavior
You sound like someone who doesn't satisfy their wife, then gives a scientific explanation of why it is actually her fault.
To people who think Ole isn't great tactically because of the PSG game : It's an unfair assessment, Ole had very little time to 'familiarize' the players different type of formations or tactics and We shouldn't have gone into PSG game playing defensively. When He came here He said He wanted to make us enjoyable to watch again, He did and it has been working really well but I doubt He only told the players to go out and play. If that's what He did then We would have lost more games with no clear structure on the pitch ala cough cough Mourinho.
He put arguably the best starting 11 against PSG, at home when We were favourites. We did have a plan B but our plan B consisted of Lukaku and Sanchez. Sanchez was supposed to be the game changer but none of them are. As of this moment, We have no players (outside of the starting 11) that could change the game. We need more quality and different type of players. Sanchez is basically a Martial with more possession loss, Lukaku is basically a Rashford without the work rate and movement, He's not a pure target man either. It doesn't matter how tactically adept you are, if you have players that only act as fillers or rather, downgrades from your starting eleven on the bench then whatever kind of changes you make during the game would be rendered almost pointless.
What else could have He done?
If We want to go on and on about PSG. What about the Tottenham game? the Arsenal game? the Chelsea game? Let's not go overboard but let's not put things out of context either.
He put arguably the best starting 11 against PSG, at home when We were favourites. We did have a plan B but our plan B consisted of Lukaku and Sanchez. Sanchez was supposed to be the game changer but none of them are. As of this moment, We have no players (outside of the starting 11) that could change the game. We need more quality and different type of players. Sanchez is basically a Martial with more possession loss, Lukaku is basically a Rashford without the work rate and movement, He's not a pure target man either. It doesn't matter how tactically adept you are, if you have players that only act as fillers or rather, downgrades from your starting eleven on the bench then whatever kind of changes you make during the game would be rendered almost pointless.
What else could have He done?
If We want to go on and on about PSG. What about the Tottenham game? the Arsenal game? the Chelsea game? Let's not go overboard but let's not put things out of context either.
Last edited:
Your post is probably factually correct bud
But the fact remains that Kane and Alli were two world class youth players, nothing to do with Poch, so both of them are like 120 million worth of transfer funds.
It would be like Everton having two Rashfords come through at the same time and calling Marco Silva a financial mastermind (I rate Rashford higher than Kane and Alli)
Resorting to insults is a poor way of facilitating decent discussion on this forum, and not likely to help you get promoted to the mains. If you're going to make generalisations like the one you did about tactics in modern football, you need to support them with evidence or you'll be called out.
Say Ole does the job for the rest of the season. Gets you top 4, maybe the FA cup, and gets the job permanent. I imagine much gratitude must be shown to his former club Molde, to allow all of this to happen. Gotta be the first time ever a club lets their manager go on "loan" to another team. A very unusual situation.
Resorting to condescension is equally unlikely to facilitate decent discussion. Thanks for the lesson though. I've only been reading these forums for 9 years so it's been invaluable.
I think they understood that it was a dream of his to do this so didn't want to stand in his way. Their league doesn't kick off until the end of March which limits the impact (at least in comparison to the leagues running simultaneously). I suppose the question now is if they really believed he would get the job full time and are now suddenly scurrying to get something in place.
No transfers in 2 windows with a team that barely has enough depth and has been missing key players for long spells yet they are still in the title race. I think there is more going on that just being a financial mastermind not to mention that Spurs actually play good football and have a solid defense.