Has political correctness actually gone mad?

[shamans]

Growing up in a tolerant society that doesn’t judge people based on their sexuality or gender? You’re right, sounds terrible.

Just seen your post about them having a disorder and none of the older ones being happy, but you apparently don’t have a strong take on transexuality - we don’t need to engage further.

You can't even tolerate my opinion (that is to HELP trans people) and preach a tolerant society.

It's not about judging, but of course it's easy to share a few FB memes and bury your head in the sand and just claim "what anything does, has NO impact on you".

 

[Ødegaard]

Of course, hence why they’re sold in costume shops.

This is why I said there’s a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. With appreciation you take the time to engage with the culture and are provided articles of clothing and attire by people from said culture. With appropriation you are usually buying clothes & accessories that rely on stereotypes to achieve the comical effect, e.g. a Mexican costume isn’t just a sombrero but it will come with a moustache and a poncho too.



Growing up in a tolerant society that doesn’t judge people based on their sexuality or gender? You’re right, sounds terrible.

Just seen your post about them having a disorder and none of the older ones being happy, but you apparently don’t have a strong take on transexuality - we don’t need to engage further.

I see. I think the kimono part makes me confused. I understand and agree with what you say around the others but I've never myself seen a kimono worn by anyone who aren't in love with it or the culture and treats it as a highly valued piece of clothing.

But then again, maybe you've seen kimonos in costume shops. We don't have costume shops where I am so I'm limited to what I've seen in pictures or read about.

 

[Eboue]

You can't even tolerate my opinion (that is to HELP trans people) and preach a tolerant society.

It's not about judging, but of course it's easy to share a few FB memes and bury your head in the sand and just claim "what anything does, has NO impact on you".

Your opinion sucks

 

[shamans]

Your opinion sucks

Communism isn't tolerant btw.

 

[Eboue]

good one. go be a bigot elsewhere

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Of course, hence why they’re sold in costume shops.

This is why I said there’s a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. With appreciation you take the time to engage with the culture and are provided articles of clothing and attire by people from said culture. With appropriation you are usually buying clothes & accessories that rely on stereotypes to achieve the comical effect, e.g. a Mexican costume isn’t just a sombrero but it will come with a moustache and a poncho too.

I'm still at a bit of a loss as to why wearing stereotypical costumes that represent certain countries/cultures is in any way offensive?

This sort of thing.

Spoiler: Exhibit A

Spoiler: Exhibit B

Spoiler: Exhibit C

What's the problem here? Why should people from the countries these costumes represent feel offended if they see someone wearing them as fancy dress?

 

[shamans]

I'm still at a bit of a loss as to why wearing stereotypical costumes that represent certain countries/cultures is in any way offensive?

This sort of thing.

What's the problem here? Why should people from the countries these costumes represent feel offended if they see someone wearing them as fancy dress?

In most cases, they don't unless you are ridiculing it of course. Any time I've put on a turban or tried to put one on all my Sikh friends absolutely love it. In fact they encourage me and show me the proper way to do it.

 

[Adebesi]

Nudists don't wear speedos. They go nude.

Exactly.

 

[afrocentricity]

snip

Ok so you've cherry picked your examples? Took me less than a minute to Google potentially offensive costumes... But sure, all costumes are benign and inoffensive. So many times I've seen posters post benign examples in order to downplay/discount someone's point, when all it takes is for the person they're arguing with to post the opposite in reply.

Low effort...

 

[Borden]

What's so different in what you and the others are doing? If one side is 'virtue signalling' for transgender then the other is 'virtue signalling' for cis women no? What a shite term anyway, virtue signalling, what's the opposite term? Being an overt cnut?

Awaiting clarification...

I didn't say a word about transgender or 'cis women' (now that's a shite term), nor did the post I quoted, so wait away.

You people really give yourself away whenever you say virtue signaling. You cant accept that other people might see things differently and have different opinions and instead of criticizing them / their opinions as good / bad you just assume that they are pretending to feel that way in order to get laid whereas yous are just up front about being completely devoid of kindness towards other people.

I give myself away as what? Hitler?

I can't accept that other people might see things differently? You're adorable.

Yeah, saying that the claim that wearing a costume reduces/ridicules everything about that culture and the people who belong to it is bullshit is indisputable evidence of me being "completely devoid of kindness towards other people." Piss off why don't you.

 

[Eboue]

I didn't say a word about transgender or 'cis women' (now that's a shite term), nor did the post I quoted, so wait away.



I give myself away as what? Hitler?

I can't accept that other people might see things differently? You're adorable.

Yeah, saying that the claim that wearing a costume reduces/ridicules everything about that culture and the people who belong to it is bullshit is indisputable evidence of me being "completely devoid of kindness towards other people." Piss off why don't you.

I accept other people see things differently and judge them and their opinions accordingly. You think people who have different opinions than you are just doing it to "signal virtue" because you can't accept that they actually believe the things they say.

 

[Borden]

I accept other people see things differently and judge them and their opinions accordingly. You think people who have different opinions than you are just doing it to "signal virtue" because you can't accept that they actually believe the things they say.

If the things they say they believe are fecking stupid I'm doing them a favor tbh.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Ok so you've cherry picked your examples? Took me less than a minute to Google potentially offensive costumes... But sure, all costumes are benign and inoffensive. So many times I've seen posters post benign examples in order to downplay/discount someone's point, when all it takes is for the person they're arguing with to post the opposite in reply.

Low effort...

Do you mean that there are examples of other cultures ‘costume’ you could find easily that are offensive or that you could find Irish, Dutch examples that are offensive?

If the former, do you have a list of what cultures are acceptable to dress as and what are not?

 

[Eboue]

If the things they say they believe are fecking stupid I'm doing them a favor tbh.

Like I said, you give yourself away.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ok so you've cherry picked your examples? Took me less than a minute to Google potentially offensive costumes... But sure, all costumes are benign and inoffensive. So many times I've seen posters post benign examples in order to downplay/discount someone's point, when all it takes is for the person they're arguing with to post the opposite in reply.

Low effort...

Well we were already talking about sombreros so I threw in a few examples from closer to home. Including one which I can personally relate to, as an Irishman. I think Leprechaun-y Irish costumes look stupid as hell but I could never see myself feeling in any way offended if someone wore that outfit at a party. Why would I?

Let's stick with sombreros if you'd prefer. Why should Mexicans take offence at people wearing sombreros (with/without ponchos/comedy mustache etc) at a fancy dress party?

 

[Carolina Red]

He's clearly a Roberto Duran fan

Here’s a better picture of him...

Is it okay for that ginger* to wear a sombrero?

*It’s okay, I’m a ginger too

 

[CassiusClaymore]

I thought the Will Smith story would be in here today. Apparently he's not black enough to play Serena/Venus Williams dad in an upcoming movie.

What with that and the blowback over his genie in Aladdin, it's not been a good few months for him.

 

[redman5]

In most cases, they don't unless you are ridiculing it of course. Any time I've put on a turban or tried to put one on all my Sikh friends absolutely love it. In fact they encourage me and show me the proper way to do it.

So what happens if just one Sikh out of many is offended by it ? Do you have to relent to the lowest common denominator & cease because of one individual, despite the fact that most of your Sikh friends 'love it' ? Is that how a woke society works ?

 

[Adebesi]

I thought the Will Smith story would be in here today. Apparently he's not black enough to play Serena/Venus Williams dad in an upcoming movie.

What with that and the blowback over his genie in Aladdin, it's not been a good few months for him.

It was mentioned a few pages back, but it just isnt as evocative an issue as sombreros.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

It was mentioned a few pages back, but it just isnt as evocative an issue as sombreros.

Understandable. I'm seething about them personally.

 

[afrocentricity]

Well we were already talking about sombreros so I threw in a few examples from closer to home. Including one which I can personally relate to, as an Irishman. I think Leprechaun-y Irish costumes look stupid as hell but I could never see myself feeling in any way offended if someone wore that outfit at a party. Why would I?

Let's stick with sombreros if you'd prefer. Why should Mexicans take offence at people wearing sombreros (with/without ponchos/comedy mustache etc) at a fancy dress party?

Don't try to rope me into this shite

Point I'm making is, there are offensive costumes and you know this. Most, if not all of you know this... The arguement is asinine.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It was mentioned a few pages back, but it just isnt as evocative an issue as sombreros.

 

[Borden]

So what happens if just one Sikh out of many is offended by it ? Do you have to relent to the lowest common denominator & cease because of one individual, despite the fact that most of your Sikh friends 'love it' ? Is that how a woke society works ?

Yes. If someone claims offense they are automatically in the right.

Unless they are a straight white male obviously, then they are just whining and need to check their privilege.

 

[shamans]

So what happens if just one Sikh out of many is offended by it ? Do you have to relent to the lowest common denominator & cease because of one individual, despite the fact that most of your Sikh friends 'love it' ? Is that how a woke society works ?

I'll ask him why he's offended and explain to him I am not ridiculing him and then depending on the situation I may not do it in front of him. Every situation is different tbh and I can't give a blanket statement that will generalize for everyone.

Individuals have differences. However, if it comes to the point where I want to have dreadlocks because I like how it looks on me and someone tells me you're ridiculing me I am not gonna stop because of them.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Here’s a better picture of him...

Is it okay for that ginger* to wear a sombrero?

*It’s okay, I’m a ginger too

It seems to me to be nothing more than an homage to one of his boxing heroes, so surely it's ok.

Floyd Mayweather, on the other hand, was just being a prick.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don't try to rope me into this shite

Point I'm making is, there are offensive costumes and you know this. Most, if not all of you know this... The arguement is asinine.

Come on, dude, now you're being obtuse. We've a blackface thread that's a million pages long so we all know that it's possible for dressing up to be offensive. I get that and I agree with that stance. It's the costumes which present stereotypical versions of countries (not ethnicities) which I can't understand people getting upset by.

 

[Adebesi]

Did anyone see the Tracy Ullman sketch about the Woke Support Group? I thought it was funny but I think YouTube might have actually taken it down.

 

[shamans]

Don't try to rope me into this shite

Point I'm making is, there are offensive costumes and you know this. Most, if not all of you know this... The arguement is asinine.

There is a weird line though.

I once wore an afro and tried to go to a Halloween thing as Fellaini. A few people gave me some odd comments suggesting I'm being racist or something. I didn't understand that. I was literally trying to be Fellaini and that's it.

 

[MadMike]

There is a weird line though.

I once wore an afro and tried to go to a Halloween thing as Fellaini. A few people gave me some odd comments suggesting I'm being racist or something. I didn't understand that. I was literally trying to be Fellaini and that's it.

Were you wearing a manutd/fellaini shirt?

 

[afrocentricity]

Come on, dude, now you're being obtuse. We've a blackface thread that's a million pages long so we all know that it's possible for dressing up to be offensive. I get that and I agree with that stance. It's the costumes which present stereotypical versions of countries (not ethnicities) which I can't understand people getting offended by.

Are you saying that you think costumes based around countries, and not race (how does the distinction work?) should not be offensive? Are not offensive? What....?

Your claiming I'm being obtuse but you aren't being very clear. I posted in response to this:

I'm still at a bit of a loss as to why wearing stereotypical costumes that represent certain countries/cultures is in any way offensive?

This sort of thing.

Spoiler: Exhibit A

Spoiler: Exhibit B

Spoiler: Exhibit C

What's the problem here? Why should people from the countries these costumes represent feel offended if they see someone wearing them as fancy dress?

And I don't recall anyone on here saying all costumes are offensive so... Why can't we just accept that context is a thing, and look at each incident on a case by case basis? You know, like the majority of people will...

There is a weird line though. I once wore an afro and tried to go to a Halloween thing as Fellaini. A few people gave me some odd comments suggesting I'm being racist or something. I didn't understand that. I was literally trying to be Fellaini and that's it.

Was probably the blackface that did it... Hi...

 

[fellaini's barber]

So what happens if just one Sikh out of many is offended by it ? Do you have to relent to the lowest common denominator & cease because of one individual, despite the fact that most of your Sikh friends 'love it' ? Is that how a woke society works ?

There's always going to be that one offended Sikh, it's the rave these days. And we all have to take him seriously or you're an insensitive bigot

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Are you saying that you think costumes based around countries, and not race (how does the distinction work?) should not be offensive? Are not offensive? What....?

Your claiming I'm being obtuse but you aren't being very clear. I posted in response to this:

And I don't recall anyone on here saying all costumes are offensive so... Why can't we just accept that context is a thing, and look at each incident on a case by case basis? You know, like the majority of people will...

Was probably the blackface that did it... Hi...

That's exactly what I'm saying. And surely you don't need me to expand on the distinction between nationality and race?! Helpfully, someone posted a picture of a ginger Mexican on the previous page!

 

[Zlatan 7]

@afrocentricity not sure if you have me on ignore or ignored my post or genuinely missed it. I’m assuming you thought you wouldn’t waste your time replying to it because I asked for a list.

I’m being kinda serious here and just trying to get to what some of you are leaning towards.

@Wibble mentioned earlier corked hats for Australians may be cultural appropriation, apologies or correct me if I read that wrong mate.
@villain a few posts up also said that just dressing as a culture without learning it or similar was appropriation and not appreciation. Again sorry if I read that wrong.

So if that’s the case, the examples @Pogue Mahone posted would be culture appropriation by villains logic? Have I got that wrong?
Is all cultural appropriation deemed offensive and a no no or is it just some? This is a genuine question and honestly not trying to be a clever dick.

If my child had to go to school / fancy dress as an Australian, my first thought would be a corked hat, same for cloggs if he went as a Dutch man, green and ginger beard Irish man etc. Is that wrong these days? I wouldn’t have thought twice about it before reading this thread so it’s good to get a wider view.

 

[Adebesi]

If its fancy dress day at school I would just keep them home mate.

 

[afrocentricity]

That's exactly what I'm saying. And surely you don't need me to expand on the distinction between nationality and race?! Helpfully, someone posted a picture of a ginger Mexican on the previous page!

When it comes to a costume, you may well have to expand on the distinction mate. Entertain the thought. I mean I feel like I'm stating the obvious here...

Turkey/India/Africa/China. What exactly are the distinctions between a costume representing the country and its predominant race? The type of distinction that is universally understood, and unlikely to be misunderstood. I'm open to whatever you have to say. Not particularly interested in repeating myself though.

@afrocentricity not sure if you have me on ignore or ignored my post or genuinely missed it. I’m assuming you thought you wouldn’t waste your time replying to it because I asked for a list.

I’m being kinda serious here and just trying to get to what some of you are leaning towards.

@Wibble mentioned earlier corked hats for Australians may be cultural appropriation, apologies or correct me if I read that wrong mate.
@villain a few posts up also said that just dressing as a culture without learning it or similar was appropriation and not appreciation. Again sorry if I read that wrong.

So if that’s the case, the examples @Pogue Mahone posted would be culture appropriation by villains logic? Have I got that wrong?
Is all cultural appropriation deemed offensive and a no no or is it just some? This is a genuine question and honestly not trying to be a clever dick.

If my child had to go to school / fancy dress as an Australian, my first thought would be a corked hat, same for cloggs if he went as a Dutch man, green and ginger beard Irish man etc. Is that wrong these days? I wouldn’t have thought twice about it before reading this thread so it’s good to get a wider view.

I'm not into the minutiae (I should have replied tbf, but sometimes I get the feeling people are trolling me).

I just don't know why its hard to accept that there are costumes that can be offensive, be they based on race, history, culture, stereotypes, etc... I was just posting to that effect and Pogue seems to want to argue with me on it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If its fancy dress day at school I would just keep them home mate.

National Book Day tomorrow, so there's some tough decisions to be made in the morning.

Thankfully, neither of my kids are into books with Mexican protagonists.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I just don't know why its hard to accept that there are costumes that can be offensive, be they based on race, history, culture, stereotypes, etc... I was just posting to that effect and Pogue seems to want to argue with me on it.

Fair enough, I’m not really sure I could think of too many that could be but I agree with you that there probably are.

It’s more the leaning towards every culture or dress or whatever being offensive I was questioning. It seems to have gone too far.

And no worries about not originally replying, ha.

 

[Zlatan 7]

National Book Day tomorrow, so there's some tough decisions to be made in the morning.

Thankfully, neither of my kids are into books with Mexican protagonists.

Mine went as the gruffalo last year, think I’ll just dig that out again, safety first.

 

[bpet15]

I just don't know why its hard to accept that there are costumes that can be offensive, be they based on race, history, culture, stereotypes, etc... I was just posting to that effect and Pogue seems to want to argue with me on it.

I am not sure I've seen anyone argue that there isn't a costume that can be deemed offensive. I think the point that is trying to be made is every costume has the potential offend someone, where is the line drawn?

 

[afrocentricity]

Fair enough, I’m not really sure I could think of too many that could be but I agree with you that there probably are.

It’s more the leaning towards every culture or dress or whatever being offensive I was questioning. It seems to have gone too far.

And no worries about not originally replying, ha.

Yea half of the time I'm not even disagreeing with posters, just the individual points they may make while framing their arguement. I'm fully aware of the fringe group that like to get offended at everything. To me they are as irritating as those that like to get offended in reaction to this group, although I do find the back and forth between the 2 mildly entertaining. So I'm not gonna say it's gone toooo far... Let's see how it goes.

People have been warning about the PC brigade going too far for as long as I can remember
I don't live on Twitter so that helps I guess.

I am not sure I've seen anyone argue that there isn't a costume that can be deemed offensive. I think the point that is trying to be made is every costume has the potential offend someone, where is the line drawn?

Who gives a feck about an arbitrary line? Look at it case by case. Any time you want to wear an outfit that you aren't sure about, find out. Google is your friend. It's not that hard is it? Sorry to be blunt, but....