Believe it or not, despite what Tommy Robinson tells you, it's actually part of our culture to be welcoming and respectful of people who don't like our culture or aren't part of our culture.
Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK
- Thread starter Tommy
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Believe it or not, despite what Tommy Robinson tells you, it's actually part of our culture to be welcoming and respectful of people who don't like our culture or aren't part of our culture.
She wasn't born elsewhere though. She as born and raised in the UK. The UK is all she knew.
Do you think Tommy Robinson values the culture of this country by the way? This is a guy (born to Irish immigrants), who, amongst other things, has drunkenly assaulted a police officer, probably been involved in the radicalisation of people and who has now started going to peoples' houses and threatening them in the middle of the night. What about Oswald Mosley, leader of the BUF, who openly courted the Nazis and led a march to threaten Jews in the east end of London.
Do these people represent British culture? Should they have had their citizenships revoked? If not, why not?
Agree with this, however potentially alternative (non-official) means could have been made to retrieve her and her baby had Shamima's British citizenship been revoked. i.e. done privately by the family.
Agree with the second paragraph, like I said I don't know the exact logistics but there have been ways people have left, maybe she could had got some financial assistance from her family.
As I don't know what you mean by British culture, would be good if you can define it.
Apparently people smugglers are now charging £30000 to transport people, up from around £100 a year ago so it's probably harder than we'd expect to do it privately at the moment.
Our way of life. We're pretty welcoming. If you have sympathy for Isis to the point you leave that culture to join them, then to me that's unacceptable. We have to remember what Terrorism is and what they represent as people who have attacked and hurt and killed so many innocent people. We cannot have that and I don't think bringing her 'home' and putting her in jail is the answer. I think you have to be a little extreme in this instance to show how severe it is. You have to make people think. You have to give people pause...do they really want to give up the life they have for this fight? People make mistakes it's true but it takes a special stupid to make the mistake she and her friends did and anyone whom follows her must know they are not welcome here.
She doesn't necessarily have to be smuggled... The family could have gone out to meet her and brought her back. They still have her passport.
Quite right. There are Guardian, Daily Mail and The Sun reporters wandering in and out like it's Camden Market, I would have thought it wasn't beyond the family to sort out without the aid of Special Forces.
The child has been murdered by the incompetence and religious fundamentalism of the mother. Like her two other children we still have little evidence to suggest they existed.
Javid, in spite of being a Tory twat, can sleep easy. He is not to blame for this. That is ‘playing politics’.
Javid, in spite of being a Tory twat, can sleep easy. He is not to blame for this. That is ‘playing politics’.
Photographic evidence not good enough for you? I don't see why she would just make up the loss of two babies, particularly when she was so obstinate in her early interviews. Absolutely nothing to gain from it.
More could have been done to prevent this if Javid wasn't playing populism politics.
Uh, no. Because of that her losing citizenship won’t leave her stateless.so just because her parents were born abroad she is less of a citizen than "samantha or Sally ann"
But let’s be honest, you knew that already.
She doesn't have dual citizenship. For somebody who has posted a lot in this thread, you should know this.
Its actually pretty disgusting that you are advocating setting a precedent where every second generation born immigrant will be less of a citizen than somebody whose ancestors settled in the country.
Regardless of any other nationality she may have.
She's the UK's mess to clean up. She was radicalized here. The baby was also the UK's responsibility.
She's the UK's mess to clean up. She was radicalized here. The baby was also the UK's responsibility.
Oh course I am not serious about her having her reproductive system taken from her. But basic rights or not some countries do actually have policies around child limits
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-child_policy
Anyway regardless of that, even if there was such a law, shes had 3 attempts, and due to her negligence, all 3 children have died, so it's not like she not had the chance were such as law even applied. Some people are simply not fit to be parents, basic rights or not
Last edited:
This has been hashed out dozens of pages ago.
It’s a question of if Bangladesh can deny her citizenship before the age of 21 should she claim it, since their law says she has it.
She was born here and a politician should not have the power to strip that right from her. That's what judges and courts are for.
Honestly speaking it all sounds of "go back to your own country to me". Reading your posts here I know this isnt applicable to you but I won't be surprised if a lot of people saying she should be deported or citizenship revoked aren't racist and like I said it's set a precedent.
And even what you wrote above, should she claim it. So she doesn't have citizenship but you want to strip her and force her to go settle in a foreign country. And make no mistake that is what's Bangladesh is.
It's a question of a bird in the hand, though. She didn't claim the Bangladeshi citizenship when she was younger, and although she's still under 21 Bangladesh have already said they have no intention of giving her a passport. So, the only citizenship she holds is the British one.
This is from the Guardian on Feb 20th:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/20/rights-of-shamima-begums-son-not-affected-says-javid
I assume that although under normal circumstances the citizenship would be automatically given to qualifying under-21s upon application, the Bangladeshi government always retain the right to veto that. It's not normal behaviour to run away and join a terrorist organisation when you're still a child.
"no, but where are you really from?"
"why would you call me a racist?"
"why would you call me a racist?"
Haven't followed the thread in its entirety, but that sounds like a good take on the issue to me.
While you have an argument there in regards to who should have that power, the reality is that the Nationality, Immigtation, and Asylum Acts of 2002 and 2006 do give that power to Javid’s position.
Thank you.
If you read Bangladesh’s law, she has the citizenship automatically. It lapses after 21 if it is never claimed.
I know that Bangladesh has now said she won’t be let in, but as I said many many pages ago in this thread, it seems they’re arguing against themselves here and it will end up being an issue decided in some kind of international court if an alternative solution isn’t found.
The UK will no doubt argue that based on Bangladeshi law, she has implicitly always had Bangladeshi citizenship even if she didn’t explicitly claim it.
Photographic evidence not good enough for you? I don't see why she would just make up the loss of two babies, particularly when she was so obstinate in her early interviews. Absolutely nothing to gain from it.
More could have been done to prevent this if Javid wasn't playing populism politics.
I didn’t see that photo, so I’ll retract my cynicism (a little). I don’t agree with Javid’s decision in isolation, as I agree with the premise that she’s our mess to ‘clean up’. However, I can’t say I care too much about her welfare either way, and I certainly don’t want to risk the lives of any British or allied personnel in bringing her back.
But Javid isn’t at fault. She is at fault. IS is at fault. Wahhabism is at fault. Not one man well outside of the picture.
The country which in recent years started a hostile environment that saw hundreds of non-white British people deported to countries they don't know and made life difficult for tens of thousands of others is welcoming? The country that voted to leave the EU so we can kick out the Polish is welcoming? What is "Our way of life" anyway and when did it start? Does everything before the fall of empire not count? Did gay people only start existing in the 90s in the UK, for example? Or was castrating them just an accident? Is someone less British if they don't suckle on the queens teat?
Last edited:
Here’s something interesting in an Economist article from yesterday...
So for the UK, it is UK law alone that applies to revoking a Briton’s citizenship and making them stateless, as the international law about it doesn’t apply. Could this case, and cases like it stemming from the diaspora of those who went to ISIS, lead to a change in that British law?
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2019/03/08/when-can-governments-revoke-citizenship
So for the UK, it is UK law alone that applies to revoking a Briton’s citizenship and making them stateless, as the international law about it doesn’t apply. Could this case, and cases like it stemming from the diaspora of those who went to ISIS, lead to a change in that British law?
This makes me proud to be British
Why do you think it's a binary? Javid can be at fault (and obviously is) and so can she.
I don’t. He isn’t to blame for the death of that baby. She is. Plus another hundred plus variables that lead to the woman being there in the first place. Almost all of them out the control of one man called Sajid Javid.
And yet it was completely within his power to make a string of decisions that could have saved that baby. He didn't and the baby died.
Isn't the camp run by the Kurds? It's not like anyone is asking the UK to risk peoples lives in a combat mission, the Kurds would happily hand her over.
Are you seriously suggesting that the UK go and pick up and bring back every UK terrorist and family out there?
I think it sends a fantastic message to anyone thinking of running off to join some terrorist organisation though. Do it and you're fecked
The left in our country is way too soft on islamic terrorism.
People all over my fb feed demanding she comes "home" feck off. I'm not right wing either, I lean left. It's very sad that the baby died.
People all over my fb feed demanding she comes "home" feck off. I'm not right wing either, I lean left. It's very sad that the baby died.
just the ones born here who we have a responsibility to deal with
Yeah you would.
Come on, get real. How many do you think have gone out there! They have chosen to reject our culture and go and live permanently in a culture that is completely the opposite. They condemn our country and our culture and wage war on us. They didn’t want to be any part of us.
When you choose this path, whoever you are, you’re on your own. The UK has no obligation to retrieve them from the mess they got themselves into. We are not responsible for bringing anyone back to the UK. We are not a tourist company.
At least 400 have already returned to the UK, the major difference between them and the ones who didn't/can't return is they have more means (i.e money) to travel. Most of those who have returned were actual combatants rather than broodmares as this girl was.
Sets a bad precedent.
It would be foolish to assume that the IS women are just brood mares, as many Yazidi have testified that they were treated worse by the women than the men.