Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Maticmaker]

The UKs main leverage is those 39b. Once that goes out of the window and the EU is forced to adapt to it then there is little incentive for the EU to offer a good trade deal. The UK will be this pariah who can't keep its word, it refused to pay its bills and has forced a hard border between the ROI and NR

Under such circumstance the EU willl be better off disrupting UK based businesses so they will have no choice but to move to mainland Europe. A huge recession in the UK might push voters to push to return in the EU, yet another huge incentive

With the UK desperate to sign trade deals with the US, China and Co, the standards will have to drop giving the EU more reason to drag its feet No one wants the crap the Brits will be eating to enter the single market

Ps project fear is swiftly becoming project reality

No, its that the EU exports more to us than we do to them that's the nub of it. I doubt if either wants to get into a trade war or cutting noses off to spite face.

'Project fear' was always nonsense as was 'Cake and eat it', isn't it time we left these behind now surely!

 

[JPRouve]

Was chatting to a guy in Mauritius a few days ago that said who cares about the EU, they don't represent what the UK are, they're a colonial power, they'll just lean on their commonwealth friends and everything'll be fine. His views were oddly explicit but you get that undercurrent from a lot of folks on the leave side, even in the highest positions. Who needs our neighbours, we're too powerful to worry about little things like that. The economic facts are entirely irrelevant.

It's weird because would they make the same argument with France, Spain or Portugal? Portugal should tell Brazil to send money to Lisbon next week.

 

[Smores]

I'm not sure i can take Gove as PM it'll be like being ruled by Rimmer. I can guarantee he has Napoleans diaries and has classic war figurines set up in battle in his study.

 

[horsechoker]

Close to 5 million signatures on the petition, there was another one calling for a second referendum which got similar numbers but that was hijacked by bots. Nobody with any serious clout has suggested this yet and I'm sure it will pass the 5 million mark.

What more do people have to do to be listened to?

As Martin Luther King said "a riot is the language of the unheard" and I fear we could see this if things don't take a different course. I abhor destroying cities but the government can't keep ignoring the people. If anything we're to happen, I would hope nobody is hurt.

 

[JPRouve]

I hadn't realised the UK was not even in control of the article 50 exit date. I'd never seen this mentioned before:

https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2019/03/23/extending-article-50-separating-myth-and-legal-reality/

There is actually no way of the UK leaving the EU on WTO or without a deal unless they allow us to. They can just extend the exit date, forever if needed without even consulting us.

That puts the negotiations in a whole new light as well. I would say definitively it is impossible to leave the EU (without permission) by using article 50. The only way of actually leaving and having it in our own hands, would be to repeal the treaties binding us in international law first.

You may want to read it again. The UK is in control, this article tells you that as long as the UK aren't out of the EU, the UK and in this case the prime minister can lawfully ask for an extension according to EU laws. It also tells you that the official exit date is now April 12th according to EU laws, unless the UK decides otherwise and ask for an other extension, revoke art.50 or agree to the withdrawal agreement.

 

[villain]

As opposed to Labour who will drive the country in to mountains of debt to get a following?

Don't try to pretend it's a one way thing!

Austerity Britain

 

[ThierryHenry]

give it 10 minutes until it's end of the year

Ffs. I bet a colleague on Friday that she’d be gone by the end of the week.

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

The feck off great lump on the right hand side is the Tories last decade. The small dip and subsequent small rise is the last Labour government decade.

Let's also remember that this was a period of Austerity inflicted on us by the Tories.

Cuts to the Police, cuts to the NHS, cuts to Education... of course cuts to the corporations and super rich too.

Labour were in power during the boom and continued spending so that we had no contingency. In 2008 the banking crisis came so that rise has nothing to do with the Tories.

We are currently in the lowest ever unemployment the country has ever had, so you can't blame the business side.

And the Tories have had us in 'austerity', as you say.

Are you not missing the rather obvious point that the Tories have no option but to do what they have done as we would otherwise be closer to 100% debt!

On the flip side, if Labour acted responsibly and didn't try to buy votes that 80% peak could be at more like 60%.

 

[Buster15]

Not really, these people are part of the 16m that voted to remain, who have never accepted they lost.

It was always going to be a No deal/ Leave, or a revoke A50/Remain option , all other so called options are the real 'unicorns'.

Yet another completely incorrect sweeping statement.

Its pretty shambolic all round to be frank. I think this is the biggest crisis in this country since WW2 (and WW1 before that) when we had a national government of sorts and the problem is that many of our MPs, and more importantly our party leaders, are still playing party political games.

Completely true. There is no common purpose with any of the parties or politicians for national unity. The only common interest is self preservation.

 

[sun_tzu]

I'm not sure i can take Gove as PM it'll be like being ruled by Rimmer. I can guarantee he has Napoleans diaries and has classic war figurines set up in battle in his study.

Heaven help us when there is gespacho soup on the menu at a diplomatic dinner...

In fairness as awful as POB would be he probably isn't as Machiavellian as mogg... Nor as incompetent as Johnson

I know it's damning with faint praise but he might be the most realistic option

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

Austerity Britain

Another who doesn't understand that we have to cut costs to reduce the debt.

Basic lesson for you, every pound spent on debt (interest) is less than can be spent on public services.

Labour spent too much during the boom so when the banking crisis happened the government debt has spiraled to ridiculous levels. This now means that rather than a continued level of public sector spend at a steady rate we have instead been forced to take massive cuts to control the debt and ensure in the longer run the country will be better supported financially.

It's exactly the same problem as everyone moans about with the Glazers, money in debt is money not being spent on players....well in the UK it's less money on public services.

 

[Buster15]

Austerity Britain

And I bet that a large percentage of the miserably small figure for the UK is the NHS.

The Tories austerity plan has much to answer for because even with this appalling cap on public services our debt has actually increased so the question is. Was it worth it.

 

[F-Red]

As Martin Luther King said "a riot is the language of the unheard" and I fear we could see this if things don't take a different course. I abhor destroying cities but the government can't keep ignoring the people. If anything we're to happen, I would hope nobody is hurt.

listen to yourself. You make it sound like it's a scene out of 28 days later. It's a shit situation defined by a lack of leadership across every political party, but it's nowhere near to the extreme of rioting.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Or a Tory as we call them.

Greatest con trick of all time is getting middle and working class people to vote for right wingers who in no way have their best interests at heart. It is the same in the US and Australia and I just can't understand it.

I think its because the media is owned by people whose best interests are served by those right wingers. People are influenced by that media.

 

[horsechoker]

listen to yourself. You make it sound like it's a scene out of 28 days later. It's a shit situation defined by a lack of leadership across every political party, but it's nowhere near to the extreme of rioting.

I think it's a progression that might happen, particular under no deal with shortages of food and medicine. It's an extreme situation yes but it's not out of the scope of possibility

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Another who doesn't understand that we have to cut costs to reduce the debt.

Basic lesson for you, every pound spent on debt (interest) is less than can be spent on public services.

Labour spent too much during the boom so when the banking crisis happened the government debt has spiraled to ridiculous levels. This now means that rather than a continued level of public sector spend at a steady rate we have instead been forced to take massive cuts to control the debt and ensure in the longer run the country will be better supported financially.

It's exactly the same problem as everyone moans about with the Glazers, money in debt is money not being spent on players....well in the UK it's less money on public services.

As another lesson - and further proof of Labour's massive public spend - could you link me the maximum %gdp the Blair/Brown spendthrifts wasted prior to the 2008 banking crisis?

 

[Ecstatic]

The feck off great lump on the right hand side is the Tories last decade. The small dip and subsequent small rise is the last Labour government decade.

Let's also remember that this was a period of Austerity inflicted on us by the Tories.

Cuts to the Police, cuts to the NHS, cuts to Education... of course cuts to the corporations and super rich too.

 

[Ecstatic]

Austerity Britain

To have a broader picture

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Another who doesn't understand that we have to cut costs to reduce the debt.

Basic lesson for you, every pound spent on debt (interest) is less than can be spent on public services.

Labour spent too much during the boom so when the banking crisis happened the government debt has spiraled to ridiculous levels. This now means that rather than a continued level of public sector spend at a steady rate we have instead been forced to take massive cuts to control the debt and ensure in the longer run the country will be better supported financially.

It's exactly the same problem as everyone moans about with the Glazers, money in debt is money not being spent on players....well in the UK it's less money on public services.

It's a touch more complicated than than that, and a leveraged buy out of a football club is not comparable to a country. Even if all if the above was an accurate representation, which it is not, it is a delightful coincidence for the Conservative party that the required solution to the economic situation just happened to be identical to their ideological preference? Pretending Tories are all about economic common sense no longer stands up to even the most cursory examination.

 

[Buster15]

I think its because the media is owned by people whose best interests are served by those right wingers. People are influenced by that media.

Yes of course people are influenced by the media. Just look at the massive advertising budgets.

That is why the Daily Mail is so popular and that is where the Tories get most of their support.
To me it is a depressing paper. Full of sensationalised bad news which it's readers seem to love.
They should give free razor blades with every copy so after reading the rubbish you can go away and slit your wrists.

 

[F-Red]

I think it's a progression that might happen, particular under no deal with shortages of food and medicine. It's an extreme situation yes but it's not out of the scope of possibility

I would be pretty confident in saying that it's not going to happen. If you define 'scope of possibility' as a percentage, then it'd be less than 0.1%. Whilst people are unhappy with politics, they're not anarchists.

 

[Strachans Cigar]

listen to yourself. You make it sound like it's a scene out of 28 days later. It's a shit situation defined by a lack of leadership across every political party, but it's nowhere near to the extreme of rioting.

Well. It’ll be “interesting” to see what happens if we stay in, with exactly the same relationship with the EU, effectively ignoring all those Brexit votes if that’s what ultimately happens won’t it?

I for one don’t see a major resurgence of Farage & UKIP in that scenario at all. No siree.

 

[villain]

Another who doesn't understand that we have to cut costs to reduce the debt.

Basic lesson for you, every pound spent on debt (interest) is less than can be spent on public services.

Labour spent too much during the boom so when the banking crisis happened the government debt has spiraled to ridiculous levels. This now means that rather than a continued level of public sector spend at a steady rate we have instead been forced to take massive cuts to control the debt and ensure in the longer run the country will be better supported financially.

It's exactly the same problem as everyone moans about with the Glazers, money in debt is money not being spent on players....well in the UK it's less money on public services.

You made the ascertation that Labour would spend this country into oblivion and I’m simply showing you that the Tories aren’t spending at all, despite recent economic growth.

Also you shouldn’t throw around such hyperbole about who understands economics and who doesn’t, particularly when you quoted the unemployment figures being a win for the tories, but conveniently didn’t mention the zero contract hours which are a significant contributor to the unemployment numbers.
Further to that, this idea that due to Labour’s spending the Tories simply HAD to cut to balance the books and recover the deficit is false and oversimplified. When recovering from a severe downturn such as 2008 — and with interest rates at nearly zero — the deficit should not be the target of policy. Instead, it should be allowed to expand until the economy has recovered. Also Osborne said austerity would last until 2015, and by then public spending would increase because the economy will have fully recovered - he failed spectacularly and now that has been delayed to 2025, a 10 year revision.

As for your Glazers analogy, well the less said about that the better.

 

[Ecstatic]

1.Another who doesn't understand that we have to cut costs to reduce the debt.

2.Basic lesson for you, every pound spent on debt (interest) is less than can be spent on public services.

3.Labour spent too much during the boom so when the banking crisis happened the government debt has spiraled to ridiculous levels. This now means that rather than a continued level of public sector spend at a steady rate we have instead been forced to take massive cuts to control the debt and ensure in the longer run the country will be better supported financially.

4.It's exactly the same problem as everyone moans about with the Glazers, money in debt is money not being spent on players....well in the UK it's less money on public services.

1. Debt decrease can be obtained by getting more revenues or/and cut costs. BUT BUT if you reduce costs and fire public employees, then it could increase the unemployment rate (bad for future public revenues) and decrease the profitability of private firms (less future taxes so bad for future public revenues). From a financial/financing/accounting standpoint, the State has to be viewed as a public investor. So, the question should be more about the efficiency of costs and the investment philosophy/social&ecomomic priorities...

2. Recourse to debt is used to repay existing debt, existing financial costs (interests, fees..)... but also can be a way to finance public services directly or indirectly

3. The issue is all the Western countries have saved the banking industry by the recourse to public debt i.e. Privatise the Profits - Nationalise the Losses

4. Glazers use LBO financing to boost the return on equity. Absolutely nothing to do with sporting/operating considerations. A high gearing ratio to limit the equity spent and diversify a portfolio. Also, Glazers spent a lot of money on players so the question is more about the quality/price ratio of the recruits

 

[Ecstatic]

I think its because the media is owned by people whose best interests are served by those right wingers. People are influenced by that media.

I don't know the British media so do you think the shareholders of media companies want a Brexit?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

No, its that the EU exports more to us than we do to them that's the nub of it. I doubt if either wants to get into a trade war or cutting noses off to spite face.

'Project fear' was always nonsense as was 'Cake and eat it', isn't it time we left these behind now surely!

The only project fear was the Turkish invasion and all the other lies from Leave. The cake and eat it was just impossible and still is, Mr Corbyn.
Project fear for a no deal departure will become reality if the UK leave with no deal. There's no escape from that and it definitely isn't nonsense.

 

[Adisa]

People who work two hours a week are counted as "employed" and someone is here quoting lowest unemployment in decades. Absolute nonsense.

 

[golden_blunder]

Well. It’ll be “interesting” to see what happens if we stay in, with exactly the same relationship with the EU, effectively ignoring all those Brexit votes if that’s what ultimately happens won’t it?

I for one don’t see a major resurgence of Farage & UKIP in that scenario at all. No siree.

farage said that in the event of it not going the way he wants he’d move abroad. Let’s hope so, though not sure how that’d work out for him with ‘abroad’ being full of the people he doesn’t like

 

[Dante]

It'll be 5 million within the next half-an-hour.

Democracy is about asking the electorate questions about leadership on a regular basis.

A single referendum, and all the monomania that's ensued, is no more democratic than North Korea.

 

[711]

I was surprised yesterday when a couple of Sky newsreaders announced they had both stocked up their house ready for shortages. I know chatting bollocks is part of their job, but they seemed genuine.

So, I haven't stocked up a jot, but maybe I'm out of line, what have the boys and girls of RedCafe done, has anyone already filled their cupboards ready for doomsday?

 

[golden_blunder]

Said before and I’ll say again, the damage is already done. Even if UK were to somehow remain, big business will not trust that it won’t happen again a few years down the line. They will start looking at stability in other EU countries

 

[sullydnl]

Aye, even if the UK remained, the level of euroscepticim and British exceptionalism within the country (and particularly the political class) would remain too. In other words they'd continue to be a pain to deal with as far as the EU is concerned, especially as relationships between both sides have only deteriorated as a result of Brexit. Bah.

 

[dove]

It'll be 5 million within the next half-an-hour.

Democracy is about asking the electorate questions about leadership on a regular basis.

A single referendum, and all the monomania that's ensued, is no more democratic than North Korea.

Agreed, we should do best of 5, first to win 3 referendums is a true winner

 

[Dante]

Agreed, we should do best of 5, first to win 3 referendums is a true winner

As opposed to the 56 General Elections we've had in this country?

Yeah, it's laughable. Let's just keep the Whigs in for ever and ever.

Democracy is not about a single snapshot of public opinion. It's a regular temperature gauge of how the people believe the country is being/should be run.

Brexit was too big a choice to left to a single vote., particularly when there are at least 3 stages to be concerned with (leaving, the nature of the breakup and nature of our relationship with non-EU countries). Each stage has a knock-on effect to the next one. So at the very least, there should be another referendum to ask whether we're on the course that 2016 promised.

 

[Abizzz]

I don't know the British media so do you think the shareholders of media companies want a Brexit?

Most newspapers (and trash that masquerades as newspaper) are money loosing businesses these days. They are kept alive to preserve their influence for those owning them. The owners of the Telegraph, Sun, Times, and Sunday Times (last 3 are all Murdoch) are all on record as pro Brexit.

They are no longer businesses in the traditional sense (they won't make money again, ever, by themselves), they are propaganda outlets for corporations with an agenda.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Said before and I’ll say again, the damage is already done. Even if UK were to somehow remain, big business will not trust that it won’t happen again a few years down the line. They will start looking at stability in other EU countries

Yep, most of them will have drawn up plans, assessed feasibility already.

 

[Ian Reus]

What a complete shitshow this has become.

I'm fed up reading comments like, "out means out" or "leave means leave".

Nobody seems to have any idea what they're talking about.

And this Lisbon treaty bollox has been rolled out again this week which is some sort of fake news as it was activated years ago.

 

[Minimalist]

@RedTillI'mDead demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect in spectacular form in the last page or so. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about but you’re parroting the official Tory lines with total confidence.

 

[Cheesy]

People who work two hours a week are counted as "employed" and someone is here quoting lowest unemployment in decades. Absolute nonsense.

Even if the numbers on a zero hour contract are relatively small, I think what's important to note more than job figures is job security. As we increasingly move towards automation and as we largely live in an economic setup where people are disposable in an instant as companies make cut, what you end up finding is that people still have a lot of anxiety and face uncertainty because jobs are no longer anywhere near as stable as they once were. You're a lot more liable to have to move from job to job than you were in the past - jobs for life are largely things of the past. Couple that with, say, rent increases and difficulties when it comes to getting a house, and the general chances people have to achieve stability aren't as great as they were before.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]