The Saudi Takeover Rumor Thread

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devilish said:
I am pretty sure that losing you and me as supporters will determine whether the Saudi will buy our club or not. Darn it might even cause a regime change while at it

As said I'd rather see us focusing on what we can change instead ie by voting for politicians who truly safeguard human rights and would send war criminals like Blair to prison. Oh well
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Again the question was never if it will stop the Saudis from buying United. The question is will a fan continue supporting them if they do. This is my 3rd time repeating myself if you‘re keeping track.

If you are fine with the Saudis owning United then that is your perogative, but to tell us we should be focused stuff we can change like voting (even though voting has had historically little to no effect on foreign policy) is an absurd critique
 
MackRobinson said:
Again the question was never if it will stop the Saudis from buying United. The question is will a fan continue supporting them if they do. This is my 3rd time repeating myself if you‘re keeping track.

If you are fine with the Saudis owning United then that is your perogative, but to tell us we should be focused stuff we can change like voting (even though voting has had historically little to no effect on foreign policy) is an absurd critique
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I think that the Saudi regime is a despicable one and I would never vote the equally despicable aholes who arms them. That's the political side something I, as a voter, can change.

Football is my passion. I was a United supporter before we became what we are and I will love my club long after it becomes irrelevant. United comes third in my life after my daughter and my family. Id find it impossible to switch my support off like its some electric switch.
 
devilish said:
I think that the Saudi regime is a despicable one and I would never vote the equally despicable aholes who arms them. That's the political side something I, as a voter, can change.

Football is my passion. I was a United supporter before we became what we are and I will love my club long after it becomes irrelevant. United comes third in my life after my daughter and my family. Id find it impossible to switch my support off like its some electric switch.
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Until football ceases to exist, Manchester United will NEVER be irrelevant!
 
Laughing at the outrage about a possible takeover when people have no objection to putting gas/petrol in their cars from Saudia Arabia. Money which actually funds whatever Saudia Arabia are doing.
 
devilish said:
Or better still we should try and change what we can change rather then moan on things that we cannot change.
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People discussing or stating their objections to this potential takeover are not necessarily moaning mate. When you love something and something you feel strongly about might happen to it of course you are going to form an opinion on it.

There are many things in the world we as regular people can't change, but thats doesn't mean you can't voice your opinion on things you believe are wrong.

What would the world be like right now if everyone in the last 100 years just adopted this nihilistic attitude of ''Oh well i can't change all the bad things happening right now in the world so i won't bother to try to change anything or even comment on the things i think are wrong''?
 
devilish said:
Once people like the Glazers bought out the shares we lost control over the club.
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You're right. But what's your point here? We should've abandoned the club the moment it became clear that those "top reds" you refer to wouldn't buy the majority of the stocks? Well, perhaps we should have. Some actually did - that is, distanced themselves from United after the club became a plc.

But tolerating a modicum of evil still doesn't mean you're obliged to tolerate any degree of it. And that's the faulty logic applied by some in this debate. We tolerate ownership by US businessmen (and a woman) who come with the usual dubious connections and affiliations - yes. I, personally, also tolerate owners who acquired the club in a manner I think should be made illegal - that's how hypocritical I am. But we probably wouldn't tolerate them any longer if they began using United to promote regimes, enterprises or causes they espouse - not to mention using the club as a tool for whitewashing their own tainted image.

There's no blatant hypocrisy here, just a level of blind eye turning that isn't overly damnable in the grand scheme of things.

And on the same note, voting for a political party, or individual candidate, doesn't equate to supporting everything they stand for. That's not how democracy works. People who voted for Blair didn't do so because they agreed with everything (new) Labour stood for - and certainly not because they actively supported the idea of the UK joining the US operation against Iraq (and every atrocity associated with that operation). It shouldn't be necessary to point this out, really - it's an absurd form of sophistry to begin with.
 
ghagua said:
Laughing at the outrage about a possible takeover when people have no objection to putting gas/petrol in their cars from Saudia Arabia. Money which actually funds whatever Saudia Arabia are doing.
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Actually, we are mostly funding Norway (about 60% of oil/gas imports to the UK).

Saudi Arabia accounts for about 3%, putting them behind the likes of Nigeria, Algeria, USA, Libya, Russia.
 
devilish said:
I think that the Saudi regime is a despicable one and I would never vote the equally despicable aholes who arms them. That's the political side something I, as a voter, can change.

Football is my passion. I was a United supporter before we became what we are and I will love my club long after it becomes irrelevant. United comes third in my life after my daughter and my family. Id find it impossible to switch my support off like its some electric switch.
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You should have just said the bold first instead of drumming up these intellectually dishonest arguments. Like I said, that is your prerogative, but a person's choice to not support United if the Saudi's own the club has absolutely nothing to do with how they vote domestically. Voting in a democratic country does not mean you support all foreign or domestic policy decisions carried out by that said country, nor does it exclude a person for taking a stance against another country/entity their country may do business with. It's an utterly absurd conclusion to draw.
 
stevoc said:
People discussing or stating their objections to this potential takeover are not necessarily moaning mate. When you love something and something you feel strongly about might happen to it of course you are going to form an opinion on it.

There are many things in the world we as regular people can't change, but thats doesn't mean you can't voice your opinion on things you believe are wrong.

What would the world be like right now if everyone in the last 100 years just adopted this nihilistic attitude of ''Oh well i can't change all the bad things happening right now in the world so i won't bother to try to change anything or even comment on the things i think are wrong''?
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That's my frigging argument from post 1. Don't moan on things you can't change but work hard to change things you can. If you're in a country were they sell arms to regimes then vote those politicians out.
 
MackRobinson said:
You should have just said the bold first instead of drumming up these intellectually dishonest arguments. Like I said, that is your prerogative, but a person's choice to not support United if the Saudi's own the club has absolutely nothing to do with how they vote domestically. Voting in a democratic country does not mean you support all foreign or domestic policy decisions carried out by that said country, nor does it exclude a person for taking a stance against another country/entity their country may do business with. It's an utterly absurd conclusion to draw.
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Well what can I say. Stop supporting Manchester United but please make sure you keep voting the same politicians who keep arming these assholes so they remain in power. Is that what you want me to say?
 
Infra-red said:
Better close the football forum down, then.
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Everyone uses the forum the way he wants to. I for one love to discuss football. Sometimes Im right, something Im wrong, sometimes I learn and sometimes I use it to vent. Its nice to have a place were you can voice your opinion in. However its even nicer to have other showing you were you're wrong so you can improve and mature. That's how I see it.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
You're right. But what's your point here? We should've abandoned the club the moment it became clear that those "top reds" you refer to wouldn't buy the majority of the stocks? Well, perhaps we should have. Some actually did - that is, distanced themselves from United after the club became a plc.

But tolerating a modicum of evil still doesn't mean you're obliged to tolerate any degree of it. And that's the faulty logic applied by some in this debate. We tolerate ownership by US businessmen (and a woman) who come with the usual dubious connections and affiliations - yes. I, personally, also tolerate owners who acquired the club in a manner I think should be made illegal - that's how hypocritical I am. But we probably wouldn't tolerate them any longer if they began using United to promote regimes, enterprises or causes they espouse - not to mention using the club as a tool for whitewashing their own tainted image.

There's no blatant hypocrisy here, just a level of blind eye turning that isn't overly damnable in the grand scheme of things.

And on the same note, voting for a political party, or individual candidate, doesn't equate to supporting everything they stand for. That's not how democracy works. People who voted for Blair didn't do so because they agreed with everything (new) Labour stood for - and certainly not because they actively supported the idea of the UK joining the US operation against Iraq (and every atrocity associated with that operation). It shouldn't be necessary to point this out, really - it's an absurd form of sophistry to begin with.
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You never agree fully with the party you vote for and tbh sometimes you do get blindsided by them as well. However, like any responsible voter I tend to make a list of pros and cons of every party's manifesto and how they acted throughout the past 5 years in government. If I was British during Blair times then the death of thousands of innocent people would be pretty much high on my priority. Also Id make sure that Id put pressure on my local MP so that he'll move his ass and make sure that this war criminal is put to justice.

But hey lets instead stop supporting United instead.
 
devilish said:
That's my frigging argument from post 1. Don't moan on things you can't change but work hard to change things you can. If you're in a country were they sell arms to regimes then vote those politicians out.
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UK, US, Sweden, Turkey, Canada, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Spain, and France all sell arms to Saudi Arabia.

I expect citizens in most/all of those countries would not be particularly keen on the idea of the Saudis owning their cherished football club (whoever that happens to be). This does not make them hypocrites.
 
Infra-red said:
UK, US, Sweden, Turkey, Canada, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Spain, and France all sell arms to Saudi Arabia.

I expect citizens in most/all of those countries would not be particularly keen on the idea of the Saudis owning their cherished football club (whoever that happens to be). This does not make them hypocrites.
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True and I assure you I am not thrilled about it either but I also expect that these guys have the balls to put their vote were their moral compass is as well
 
devilish said:
If I was British during Blair times then the death of thousands of innocent people would be pretty much high on my priority. Also Id make sure that Id put pressure on my local MP so that he'll move his ass and make sure that this war criminal is put to justice.
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Indeed, yes - that's what I'd do. If I had voted him into office, and it later turned out that his government decided to join a certain campaign, and it later still turned out that this campaign involved the deaths of thousands of innocents - and the man was still Prime Minister when this became public knowledge. Sure, yes.

You don't have much of a case, do you?
 
I'd take the Saudi's over the Glazers any day of the week.

Unlike the Glazers (who seem to focus entirely on our past to milk as much money as possible), the Saudi's would focus solely on the future of the club. As a fan, I am extremely proud of our history but I'm getting pretty fed up of being constantly reminded of our past achievements (the 1999 Treble or the Class of 92 for example), while our rivals seem to be planning for the future (e.g. stadium/training ground developments). We are making the same mistake as Liverpool in the early 90's, by focusing solely on our past.

A great history is fantastic, but being the best in the present is far more important for the future prosperity of the club. The next generation of football fans will not care less whether we have dominated in the past, long before they were born. All that matters is the present, and at the present they will choose the club with the best players, that play the best football and have the best stadiums. At the minute we are way behind in all these areas. Yes, Old Trafford is a fantastic stadium, but requires serious investment which I don't think will happen under the Glazers. Personally I don't see us ever being the best again under the Glazers, while under the Saudi's I do.

Manchester United deserves the best and the Saudi's would settle for nothing but the best. I imagine that they would invest massively in an Old Trafford stadium redevelopment, and we would go after, and more than likely get, the best players in the world. At the minute, we have the resources to compete with any club in the world, however if the next 6 years are like the last 6 years, we probably won't in the future. Eventually the money will start to dry up and we will start to fall behind. The Saudi's would safeguard our future.

Let's be honest, if the Saudi's do not buy us they will look to buy another club. Imagine if they bought Liverpool for example. We'll be competing against our two main rivals that have unlimited money while we'll be stuck with the Glazers sucking the next billion out of our club.
 
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devilish said:
Or better still we should try and change what we can change rather then moan on things that we cannot change.
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devilish said:
That's my frigging argument from post 1. Don't moan on things you can't change but work hard to change things you can. If you're in a country were they sell arms to regimes then vote those politicians out.
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Oh i know mate but it's perhaps not a well thought out one, voting out governments that sell arms is one of those things that can't be changed. Because US/UK, Republican/Democrat, Tory /Labour it doesn't matter they all have and will continue to sell arms, and they will always be the biggest parties and it will always be one or the other. Even if in the unlikely event another party even gets voted in they will most likely sell arms too. Because thats what governments do.

By your logic you shouldn't moan about that fact because you can't change it. But what i'm saying is i think people should always voice their opinion and speak up about things that they think are wrong, you included.
 
UnitedFan93 said:
Let's be honest, if the Saudi's do not buy us they will look to buy another club. Imagine if they bought Liverpool for example. We'll be competing against our two main rivals that have unlimited money while we'll be stuck with the Glazers sucking the next billion out of our club.
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But the moral hunters would be happy. We'd be the only saint remains (With may be Arsenal/Tottenham?) that didn't sell our souls to the devils like Liverpool, City, Chelsea... Even if we get relegated, we can just condemn Liverpool's 3rd consecutive Champions League as "hollow", I guess... :lol: What else can we "glory hunters" do anyway?
 
devilish said:
Well what can I say. Stop supporting Manchester United but please make sure you keep voting the same politicians who keep arming these assholes so they remain in power. Is that what you want me to say?
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I literally just said you should just own it and say what you said in the previous post: Manchester Untied is the most important thing in your life after your family, and you don't care about the morals or crimes of the owners. That's your right to feel that way. At the same time your attempt to pretend like voting in democratic elections is anyway related is just plain absurd. That's consistently been the point I've been trying to make.
 
UnitedFan93 said:
I'd take the Saudi's over the Glazers any day of the week.

Unlike the Glazers (who seem to focus entirely on our past to milk as much money as possible), the Saudi's would focus solely on the future of the club. As a fan, I am extremely proud of our history but I'm getting pretty fed up of being constantly reminded of our past achievements (the 1999 Treble or the Class of 92 for example), while our rivals seem to be planning for the future (e.g. stadium/training ground developments). We are making the same mistake as Liverpool in the early 90's, by focusing solely on our past.

A great history is fantastic, but being the best in the present is far more important for the future prosperity of the club. The next generation of football fans will not care less whether we have dominated in the past, long before they were born. All that matters is the present, and at the present they will choose the club with the best players, that play the best football and have the best stadiums. At the minute we are way behind in all these areas. Yes, Old Trafford is a fantastic stadium, but requires serious investment which I don't think will happen under the Glazers. Personally I don't see us ever being the best again under the Glazers, while under the Saudi's I do.

Manchester United deserves the best and the Saudi's would settle for nothing but the best. I imagine that they would invest massively in an Old Trafford stadium redevelopment, and we would go after, and more than likely get, the best players in the world. At the minute, we have the resources to compete with any club in the world, however if the next 6 years are like the last 6 years, we probably won't in the future. Eventually the money will start to dry up and we will start to fall behind. The Saudi's would safeguard our future.

Let's be honest, if the Saudi's do not buy us they will look to buy another club. Imagine if they bought Liverpool for example. We'll be competing against our two main rivals that have unlimited money while we'll be stuck with the Glazers sucking the next billion out of our club.
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I'm sorry, but some things are bigger than football. I'd have a hard time supporting the club if it was owned by a country that treats women like chattel, imprisons, tortures and rapes women's rights activists, punishes homosexuality with death, tortures trans people to death, imprisons dissidents... The Glazers are capitalists, and I greatly dislike them, but they operate within the rules (as far as I can tell). I'd be fecking stoked if we got rid of them as owners, but not if they were replaced by a country that makes a hobby out of violating human rights. I'd rather see the club fall into mid-table mediocrity than have Saudi owners.
 
Halftrack said:
I'm sorry, but some things are bigger than football. I'd have a hard time supporting the club if it was owned by a country that treats women like chattel, imprisons, tortures and rapes women's rights activists, punishes homosexuality with death, tortures trans people to death, imprisons dissidents... The Glazers are capitalists, and I greatly dislike them, but they operate within the rules (as far as I can tell). I'd be fecking stoked if we got rid of them as owners, but not if they were replaced by a country that makes a hobby out of violating human rights. I'd rather see the club fall into mid-table mediocrity than have Saudi owners.
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Can't say the great European powers were much better even 100 years ago, in fact they perpetrated crimes of which the effects last to this day (including actions taking place in the Middle East). Look, I am not a fan of the Saudi regime; MBS is a psychopath and I fear for our club if they displease him from an owner's perspective. The actions of the leadership in the US, where I live, in appeasing this guy is brazen stupidity. For that record, I reckon the Glazers probably support this current leadership, which we all should roll our eyes at. However, we don't need to accommodate western commentators who see this yet another opportunity to preach from a self-appointed moral high ground. I say this as a minority citizen of a Western country.
 
MackRobinson said:
I literally just said you should just own it and say what you said in the previous post: Manchester Untied is the most important thing in your life after your family, and you don't care about the morals or crimes of the owners. That's your right to feel that way. At the same time your attempt to pretend like voting in democratic elections is anyway related is just plain absurd. That's consistently been the point I've been trying to make.
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I do care about the morals of the owners however I also love the club too much to abandon it. Its similar to having an unruly son. You hate his actions but you still support him no matter what. If you truly love /support someone/something you would understand

However I don't share the same loyalty to politicians. Hence why i vote with my brains.
 
stevoc said:
Oh i know mate but it's perhaps not a well thought out one, voting out governments that sell arms is one of those things that can't be changed. Because US/UK, Republican/Democrat, Tory /Labour it doesn't matter they all have and will continue to sell arms, and they will always be the biggest parties and it will always be one or the other. Even if in the unlikely event another party even gets voted in they will most likely sell arms too. Because thats what governments do.

By your logic you shouldn't moan about that fact because you can't change it. But what i'm saying is i think people should always voice their opinion and speak up about things that they think are wrong, you included.
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Then keep searching for a party or a politician that care about such things or go into politics yourself. I find it almost impossible to criticise a regime if the very party I vote for in aids them with the killings.

Also if we ever have a chance to buy our club back then do it. I am not rich and God knows the problems I have. Yet when my supporters club needed money I was at the forefront. That's the best I could do
 
Can't happen soon enough for me. We'd be able to clear our debt, increase the size of the stadium, improve our squad, further enhance our reputation in middle East/north Africa & other top teams would stay the hell away from our top players in fear.

Red devils owned by real devils. A match made in... Hell! Can't wait :devil:
 
devilish said:
You never agree fully with the party you vote for and tbh sometimes you do get blindsided by them as well. However, like any responsible voter I tend to make a list of pros and cons of every party's manifesto and how they acted throughout the past 5 years in government. If I was British during Blair times then the death of thousands of innocent people would be pretty much high on my priority. Also Id make sure that Id put pressure on my local MP so that he'll move his ass and make sure that this war criminal is put to justice.

But hey lets instead stop supporting United instead.
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You realise you can do both, right? That someone who might lose interest in football if their favourite club was taken over by a murderous regime can also be politically active at the same time? Stop presenting it as some either/or choice.
 
MackRobinson said:
I literally just said you should just own it and say what you said in the previous post: Manchester Untied is the most important thing in your life after your family, and you don't care about the morals or crimes of the owners. That's your right to feel that way. At the same time your attempt to pretend like voting in democratic elections is anyway related is just plain absurd. That's consistently been the point I've been trying to make.
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And this applies to everyone in this thread who keeps making up false equivalencies and 'whatabout' arguments ('you have a car and you put petrol in it so shut up' and 'European powers did bad things a 100 years ago').

Just say that you don't give a feck. That's your prerogative. You don't need to bend over backwards and torture facts to prove our supposed hypocrisy. You don't care who owns the club as long as they bring success. That's the only argument you need - and the only argument you have.
 
Siorac said:
And this applies to everyone in this thread who keeps making up false equivalencies and 'whatabout' arguments ('you have a car and you put petrol in it so shut up' and 'European powers did bad things a 100 years ago').

Just say that you don't give a feck. That's your prerogative. You don't need to bend over backwards and torture facts to prove our supposed hypocrisy. You don't care who owns the club as long as they bring success. That's the only argument you need - and the only argument you have.
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When I was old enough to support United every one around me was supporting Juve or Milan. The latter had the best team I've ever seen, better then Pep's barca. While united had Bruce they had Baresi. While we had Hughes they had Van Basten. While we had Ince they had Gullit. They were filthy rich while we could not afford some striker from Fiorentina

Winning the league meant little at the time. The EPL was at the time considered as a league at par to today's Dutch league.So don't dare calling me a glory hunter. I love the club and I'll support it till the end and irrespective of circumstances . That's what true supporters do

Which leads us to politics. I find hypocritical for some people to act so high and mighty regarding Saudi when their own country, the politicians they vote for, sit well deep in their pockets. They are the ones who enable the regime to thrive by providing them with arms

There again most of these people are proud of their country history despite it caused far more grief and deaths then Saudi ever done.
 
devilish said:
Then keep searching for a party or a politician that care about such things or go into politics yourself. I find it almost impossible to criticise a regime if the very party I vote for in aids them with the killings.
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Trust me mate if i thought it would make a difference i would. A person could spend several lifetimes searching for such a politician mate, it would make zero difference. Governments regardless of the name of their party will always sell weapons the system is now reliant on that income.

devilish said:
Also if we ever have a chance to buy our club back then do it. I am not rich and God knows the problems I have. Yet when my supporters club needed money I was at the forefront. That's the best I could do
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Did you by any shares when they were available to the public in the 90's?

I did as did others, and what happened to those shares we were forced to sell them when the glazers bought the club. Not enough people bothered their arse buying shares through Shareholders United for it ever really mean anything.

The club in 2019 is valused now at $4-5B which means the fans will never own it. Even a group of wealthy fans is unlikely to be able to pull that sort of money together. We missed the boat.
 
devilish said:
When I was old enough to support United every one around me was supporting Juve or Milan. The latter had the best team I've ever seen, better then Pep's barca. While united had Bruce they had Baresi. While we had Hughes they had Van Basten. While we had Ince they had Gullit. They were filthy rich while we could not afford some striker from Fiorentina

Winning the league meant little at the time. The EPL was at the time considered as a league at par to today's Dutch league.So don't dare calling me a glory hunter. I love the club and I'll support it till the end and irrespective of circumstances . That's what true supporters do

Which leads us to politics. I find hypocritical for some people to act so high and mighty regarding Saudi when their own country, the politicians they vote for, sit well deep in their pockets. They are the ones who enable the regime to thrive by providing them with arms

There again most of these people are proud of their country history despite it caused far more grief and deaths then Saudi ever done.
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I never called you or anyone else a glory hunter.

I'm just saying there's no need to justify your stance with tortured political points. You don't care who the owners are. Fine.

I voted for the opposition in Hungary. They, as far as I'm aware, do not sell arms to Saudi Arabia. Am I allowed to dislike the idea of being owned by the Saudi regime? Or do I have to move to another country or start an armed revolution to overthrow all the governments that support them in any way before being allowed to say I would probably lose interest in football if this takeover happened?
 
stevoc said:
The club in 2019 is valused now at $4-5B which means the fans will never own it. Even a group of wealthy fans is unlikely to be able to pull that sort of money together. We missed the boat.
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I don't think it's impossible for the fans to own it.

4 billion would require 800k fans to invest 5k. Factor in more wealthy fans buying more shares I think you can reduce that average down quite a lot.

I'd be thinking a modest return similar to having a 1-2k in a bank account earning 1-2%, leaving nearly all for funding the team and club.

Would take a while to raise awareness and point out the benefits of where nearly all the proceeds would go.
 
Siorac said:
You realise you can do both, right? That someone who might lose interest in football if their favourite club was taken over by a murderous regime can also be politically active at the same time? Stop presenting it as some either/or choice.
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similarly though, you can still choose to support the club and still be against the Saudi's, even if they are the owners. i understand why it would be a line too far for some, but i also see why it would be difficult to just stop supporting a team one loves overnight. and not everyone who chooses to continue to support United despite the ownership is just some 'win at all cost' type who has no moral compass.
 
Anything that stops sucking us dry would be better than what we have..

Cant really say that the Saudis are much worse than the American capitalists.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
They are. The Americans owners are opportunists, the Saudi royals are evil.
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MBS was born into his situation. Just like the Glazer kids were born into theirs. You pull some freaky Friday shit at their births and things would turn out the same way. These guys are both different sides of the same coin.
 
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