Jacob you wont be accused of being Liar. You have straight up admitted to be a liar.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Jacob you wont be accused of being Liar. You have straight up admitted to be a liar.
So... Are we still teetering on the brink or is there some progress?
More entertaining and you might get some xenophobic shit out of it. Pretty boring if you ask a remainer why they voted and they don’t have a good reason. “Erm not sure really” isn’t very interesting or funny. Just sad
Nobody sensible ever gets interviewed outside football grounds either
Corbyn's bringing back his unicorn motion today for the 3rd time even though it's also been rejected twice. Don't think parliament will deliver anything sensible.
I think there are many remainers who were just as uninformed but just happened to choose the less catastrophic option. Really there should have never been a referendum in the first place.
Anyone signing that petition is a idiot. The petition doesn't even call for a second refendum but to just stop Brexit.
Also lets not reward people for signing online petition.
Also lets not reward people for signing online petition.
No shit. The 'idiots' who have signed it can read.
At least 1 politician is listening to the other side.
I know, and I agree, but everyone (in media and on here) is expecting MV3 on May's proposal as if Bercow has not stated that he will not allow it unless the proposal is substantially different from the previous, rejected version - and we've heard from the EU that they will not accept further discussion on this version of the WA (of course I'm aware that what's once said does not matter much in politics). So is it at all possible/probable that the speaker could dismiss MV3 once the same proposal is tabled (as he said he would)? And if so, why is no one taking that into account, or at least mentioning it any more?
There are ways round it I think.
Guide to the 16 alternative Brexit plans on today's order paper
There are 16 Brexit plans on the order paper for today’s debate. The Speaker, John Bercow, will announce which ones will be put to a vote, probably when the debate proper starts at about 3pm.
You can read them all on the order paper here (pdf).
And here is a Press Association guide to what they all are.
Labour plan
Labour has tabled a motion proposing its plan for a close economic relationship with the EU. The plan includes a comprehensive customs union with a UK say on future trade deals; close alignment with the single market; matching new EU rights and protections; participation in EU agencies and funding programmes; and agreement on future security arrangements, including access to the European arrest warrant.
Common market 2.0
Tabled by Conservatives Nick Boles, Robert Halfon and Andrew Percy and Labour’s Stephen Kinnock, Lucy Powell and Diana Johnson. The motion proposes UK membership of the European free trade association and European Economic Area. It allows continued participation in the single market and a “comprehensive customs arrangement” with the EU after Brexit, which would remain in place until the agreement of a wider trade deal which guarantees frictionless movement of goods and an open border in Ireland.
Confirmatory public vote
Drawn up by Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson and tabled by former foreign secretary Dame Margaret Beckett with the backing of scores of MPs across the House, this motion would require a public vote to confirm any Brexit deal passed by parliament before its ratification.
Customs union
Requires a commitment to negotiate a “permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU” in any Brexit deal. Tabled by veteran Conservative Europhile Ken Clarke, backed by Labour’s Yvette Cooper, Helen Goodman and chair of the Commons Brexit committee Hilary Benn and Tory former ministers Sir Oliver Letwin and Sarah Newton.
Malthouse compromise Plan A
A cross-party proposal calls for Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement to be implemented with the controversial “backstop” for the Irish border replaced by alternative arrangements. Backed by Conservatives from both the leave and remain wings of the party, including Nicky Morgan, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Damian Green, Steve Baker and Sir Graham Brady, as well as the DUP’s Nigel Dodds and Labour Brexiteer Kate Hoey.
Revoke article 50
Under this plan, if the government has not passed its withdrawal agreement, it would have to stage a vote on a no-deal Brexit two sitting days before the scheduled date of departure. If MPs refuse to authorise no-deal, the prime minister would be required to halt Brexit by revoking article 50. The motion, tabled by the SNP’s Joanna Cherry, has been signed by 33 MPs including Conservative former attorney general Dominic Grieve, Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable, Labour’s Ben Bradshaw and all 11 members of The Independent Group.
Revocation instead of no deal
Under this plan, the government is called on to “urgently” bring forward any legislation needed to revoke article 50 “in the event that the house fails to approve any withdrawal agreement four days before the end of the article 50 period”. It has been signed by 28 MPs, including the SNP’s Angus Brendan MacNeil and Tory MP Ken Clarke.
New customs union
Tabled by Labour’s MP for Stoke-on-Trent Central Gareth Snell, this motion simply states that it should be the government’s objective to implement a trade agreement including a customs union with the EU. It mirrors an amendment to the trade bill secured by Labour peers in the House of Lords.
EEA/EFTA without customs union
A motion tabled by Conservative MP George Eustice - who quit as agriculture minister this month to fight for Brexit - proposes remaining within the EEA and rejoining EFTA, but remaining outside a customs union with the EU. The motion was also signed by Conservative MPs including former minister Nicky Morgan and head of the Brexit Delivery Group Simon Hart.
No deal
Backed by Conservative MPs John Baron, David Amess, Martin Vickers and Stephen Metcalfe, the motion proposes leaving the European Union without a deal on April 12.
Unilateral right of exit from backstop
The same four Tory MPs, as well as Andrew Percy and Neil Parish, have also backed a motion to leave the EU on May 22 with Mrs May’s withdrawal agreement amended to allow the UK to unilaterally exit the Northern Ireland backstop.
Consent of devolved institutions
Backed by SNP MPs including Ian Blackford, Kirsty Blackman and Stephen Gethins, this motion requires an agreement that the UK will not leave without a deal, and that no action for leaving the EU will be taken without a consent motion passed in both the Scottish parliament and the Welsh assembly.
Contingent preferential arrangements
A group of Conservative MPs, including Marcus Fysh, Steve Baker and Priti Patel, have signed a motion that calls for the government to seek to agree preferential trade arrangements with the EU, in case the UK is unable to implement a withdrawal agreement with the bloc.
Contingent reciprocal arrangements
A similar group of Tory MPs have backed a proposal calling for the government to “at least reciprocate the arrangements put in place by the EU and or its member states to manage the period following the UK’s departure from the EU”, in case the UK is unable to implement a withdrawal agreement.
Respect the referendum results
A cross-party proposal, signed by 94 MPs including the Conservatives’ Will Quince, Labour’s Frank Field and the DUP’s Nigel Dodds, urges the house to “reaffirm its commitment to honour the result of the referendum that the UK should leave the European Union”.
Constitutional and accountable government
Tabled by Sir Bill Cash and other Tory Brexiters, this backs leaving the EU, rejects the government’s withdrawal agreement and proposes changing Commons standing orders so that a two-thirds majority would be needed to allow any fresh attempt to allow indicative votes debates to take precedence over government business on any given day.
There are 16 Brexit plans on the order paper for today’s debate. The Speaker, John Bercow, will announce which ones will be put to a vote, probably when the debate proper starts at about 3pm.
You can read them all on the order paper here (pdf).
And here is a Press Association guide to what they all are.
Labour plan
Labour has tabled a motion proposing its plan for a close economic relationship with the EU. The plan includes a comprehensive customs union with a UK say on future trade deals; close alignment with the single market; matching new EU rights and protections; participation in EU agencies and funding programmes; and agreement on future security arrangements, including access to the European arrest warrant.
Common market 2.0
Tabled by Conservatives Nick Boles, Robert Halfon and Andrew Percy and Labour’s Stephen Kinnock, Lucy Powell and Diana Johnson. The motion proposes UK membership of the European free trade association and European Economic Area. It allows continued participation in the single market and a “comprehensive customs arrangement” with the EU after Brexit, which would remain in place until the agreement of a wider trade deal which guarantees frictionless movement of goods and an open border in Ireland.
Confirmatory public vote
Drawn up by Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson and tabled by former foreign secretary Dame Margaret Beckett with the backing of scores of MPs across the House, this motion would require a public vote to confirm any Brexit deal passed by parliament before its ratification.
Customs union
Requires a commitment to negotiate a “permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU” in any Brexit deal. Tabled by veteran Conservative Europhile Ken Clarke, backed by Labour’s Yvette Cooper, Helen Goodman and chair of the Commons Brexit committee Hilary Benn and Tory former ministers Sir Oliver Letwin and Sarah Newton.
Malthouse compromise Plan A
A cross-party proposal calls for Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement to be implemented with the controversial “backstop” for the Irish border replaced by alternative arrangements. Backed by Conservatives from both the leave and remain wings of the party, including Nicky Morgan, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Damian Green, Steve Baker and Sir Graham Brady, as well as the DUP’s Nigel Dodds and Labour Brexiteer Kate Hoey.
Revoke article 50
Under this plan, if the government has not passed its withdrawal agreement, it would have to stage a vote on a no-deal Brexit two sitting days before the scheduled date of departure. If MPs refuse to authorise no-deal, the prime minister would be required to halt Brexit by revoking article 50. The motion, tabled by the SNP’s Joanna Cherry, has been signed by 33 MPs including Conservative former attorney general Dominic Grieve, Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable, Labour’s Ben Bradshaw and all 11 members of The Independent Group.
Revocation instead of no deal
Under this plan, the government is called on to “urgently” bring forward any legislation needed to revoke article 50 “in the event that the house fails to approve any withdrawal agreement four days before the end of the article 50 period”. It has been signed by 28 MPs, including the SNP’s Angus Brendan MacNeil and Tory MP Ken Clarke.
New customs union
Tabled by Labour’s MP for Stoke-on-Trent Central Gareth Snell, this motion simply states that it should be the government’s objective to implement a trade agreement including a customs union with the EU. It mirrors an amendment to the trade bill secured by Labour peers in the House of Lords.
EEA/EFTA without customs union
A motion tabled by Conservative MP George Eustice - who quit as agriculture minister this month to fight for Brexit - proposes remaining within the EEA and rejoining EFTA, but remaining outside a customs union with the EU. The motion was also signed by Conservative MPs including former minister Nicky Morgan and head of the Brexit Delivery Group Simon Hart.
No deal
Backed by Conservative MPs John Baron, David Amess, Martin Vickers and Stephen Metcalfe, the motion proposes leaving the European Union without a deal on April 12.
Unilateral right of exit from backstop
The same four Tory MPs, as well as Andrew Percy and Neil Parish, have also backed a motion to leave the EU on May 22 with Mrs May’s withdrawal agreement amended to allow the UK to unilaterally exit the Northern Ireland backstop.
Consent of devolved institutions
Backed by SNP MPs including Ian Blackford, Kirsty Blackman and Stephen Gethins, this motion requires an agreement that the UK will not leave without a deal, and that no action for leaving the EU will be taken without a consent motion passed in both the Scottish parliament and the Welsh assembly.
Contingent preferential arrangements
A group of Conservative MPs, including Marcus Fysh, Steve Baker and Priti Patel, have signed a motion that calls for the government to seek to agree preferential trade arrangements with the EU, in case the UK is unable to implement a withdrawal agreement with the bloc.
Contingent reciprocal arrangements
A similar group of Tory MPs have backed a proposal calling for the government to “at least reciprocate the arrangements put in place by the EU and or its member states to manage the period following the UK’s departure from the EU”, in case the UK is unable to implement a withdrawal agreement.
Respect the referendum results
A cross-party proposal, signed by 94 MPs including the Conservatives’ Will Quince, Labour’s Frank Field and the DUP’s Nigel Dodds, urges the house to “reaffirm its commitment to honour the result of the referendum that the UK should leave the European Union”.
Constitutional and accountable government
Tabled by Sir Bill Cash and other Tory Brexiters, this backs leaving the EU, rejects the government’s withdrawal agreement and proposes changing Commons standing orders so that a two-thirds majority would be needed to allow any fresh attempt to allow indicative votes debates to take precedence over government business on any given day.
Yes I agree, why don't they start an individual petition for all the indicative votes proposed in Parliament, then the world and his wife can vote along with the MP's, after all isn't one of the early definitions of democracy thought to be derived from " Mob rule"?
Well the world can look on all it likes.
The inescapable fact is that leaving the EU in an orderly manner is extremely complicated. We are the first country to do this and in my opinion it will take as long as it takes to get to an acceptable solution; whatever that is.
Let's remember that A50 was never intended to actually be used and therefore the timescales were arbitrarily set.
We can keep beating ourselves up but, testiment to the referendum result, this has been and will continue to be incredibly divisive.
There is no right answer save for making the best of a particularly bad and self inflicted decision.
Well, if it achieved nothing else, it elicited a helpful response from Donald Tusk today.
We will soon find out...
But that is the problem, there is no answer because they won't come to a decision. But not coming to a decision also has consequences so if they don't the UK will partake in the EU elections very shortly. The uncertainty is no good for anyone.
Revoke artical 50
Revocation instead of no deal
Confirmatory public vote
The rest are unworkable unless there's a long extension. Labour's are only workable of there's a Labour government and the EU are willing to negotiate.
Revocation instead of no deal
Confirmatory public vote
The rest are unworkable unless there's a long extension. Labour's are only workable of there's a Labour government and the EU are willing to negotiate.
None of them looked really convincing to me last week (apart from the possibility of preventing speaker's decision by the change of standing orders, which would require voting, so unpredictable at least). But obviously, I am wrong (or just naive). Anyway, thanks for the reply.
Labour and Malthouse are the two worst ones. Absolutely impossible nonsense.
Isn't one of those being to lock Bercow in a cupboard somewhere deep and dark in the Palace of Westminster? Or maybe send him to the Tower!
Will Shakespeare would have made great with what is now unfolding in our Parliament.
Saw Barry Gardiner trending and knew it would be bad.
In fairness he's not said anything we didn't already know, the leadership of the party support Brexit, but every time he's on (which seems to be an awful lot) I just despair because he's so shit.
They really do live up to every stereotype.
I wonder following the weekend meeting with Theresa May, if this is JRM's bid for the Tory Party Leadership post Brexit/May? If so he has stolen a march on Boris and Gove.
These high Tory's have a real nose for political survival do they not? JRM castigates the PM's deal but then says (in so many words) for the sake of the Country (means party) I will hold my nose and vote for it, if others ( call to rally the troops) will do likewise.
5 odd million people signed a petition and around 2 million people went on a march at the weekend. And yet the biggest party membership in the UK is the Labour Party at around 500,000. Why didn't these millions of people in the last 2 years join any political party ?
If people really wanted to change the course of Brexit, they should started a long time ago. Signing a "press the stop Brexit button" petition is well useles.
Seems like May's withdrawal agreement still won't pass as the ERG grand idiots are now onside but the DUP are not. But it might get more votes than any other option, which would be a fun outcome.
Started about two weeks after but still almost a month ago. It has got a grand total of 7k new signatures since last night.
If there's now a group of wizards in the Conservatives can't they just do some magic spells on the EU and get the unicorns they want?
At least Bazza is being honest.
Had a bit of a weird dream about Brexit last night. We ended up leaving without a deal and the government hired Metallica to play Enter Sandman to play on the stroke of midnight outside #10 
Tell that to someone waiting for a hospital queue, or housing, or a free school place … perhaps the government should just invest all our tax money in no-brainer get-rich-quick schemes?
Let's see if they are able to come to a decision on the various amendments that you have been good enough to list out. I am hopeful that they will but I will be appalled if the Conservatives are made to wip to only vote for TM preferred ones.
Quite agree that this terrible indecision has been and increasingly draining business and citizens. It really didn't have to be this way but we are where we are and again I am hopeful that it will soon be brought to a conclusion.
Had a bit of a weird dream about Brexit last night. We ended up leaving without a deal and the government hired Metallica to play Enter Sandman to play on the stroke of midnight outside #10
You may be closer to reality than you realise.
Unfortunately they’re the KKK kind of wizards not the Harry Potter kind.
The lyrics are suitableHad a bit of a weird dream about Brexit last night. We ended up leaving without a deal and the government hired Metallica to play Enter Sandman to play on the stroke of midnight outside #10
I knowThe lyrics are suitable
Had a bit of a weird dream about Brexit last night. We ended up leaving without a deal and the government hired Metallica to play Enter Sandman to play on the stroke of midnight outside #10
Sounds awesome. Can we start a petition on making this happen.