He is nowhere near the main point of the show - the main point of the show has always been about the living.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
He is nowhere near the main point of the show - the main point of the show has always been about the living.
That's an opinion. Many of the characters in the show itself have been saying the opposite.
They've been saying Winter is Coming practically throughout the whole series, they built it up as a huge world ending threat yet it gets solved in one episode. That's why people are dissatisfied.
For ages now the main focus has been on the threat of the WW and the epic battle between the living and the dead.
The show was focused on the characters for the early seasons, but that shifted. All the hype has been about winter is coming, all the advertising focused on the Night King's arrival and this epic clash.
Almost the entirety of last season was focused on Jon gathering a force strong enough to resist the coming assault.
I don't get why people are saying that. They already had two of the biggest set-pieces in the show (Hardhome, Beyond the wall) dedicated to the white walkers, as well as the Hold the Door bit, and then them breaking through the wall at the end of season seven, and then we got two episodes of pure build up to it followed by the longest episode of the show (and longest battle sequence ever) for the final showdown. We've spent half of the final season purely on them.
What the feck more are people expecting? Personally I'd find it a bit boring if they focused more episodes and battles on them when there's still so much to resolve with characters we've been focused on since the very first episode of the show.
Is it definitely solved?
I thought they got travel sick?
I expected them to have a bigger impact on the world as opposed to failing at the first battle after breaking down the wall. They barely stepped foot outside of the wall and they've already died!
Yeah a part of me does think that they're not completely gone. I just don't think an issue as big as them is getting solved that easily.
Telling the other plotlines and fleshing the Walker threat out better isn't mutually exclusive in the slightest. Give us for example shots of winter across all of the continent, maybe even snow in Dorne, and show just a few people recognizing that something unusual and bad is going on (at least the Maesters in the Citadel? They are supposed to know stuff and catalogue more or less everything). They needn't ever see a Zombie from up close for that to work.
And some scenes to explain how WW are created. Its even possible its not fully resolved (however if there is a prequel it would make sense they dont reveal everything here). I dont think its spoilt anything by not doing so.
And people keep saying theyve resolved it three episodes into the season. But likewise, they started from episode 1 (And were sparingly showed across the first 4 seasons). And then showed more and more, until 3 episodes from the end it was seemingly resolved.
Placement depends on your own opinion, but if it was the second to last episode or last I think it would have been less tense and more predictable.
Exactly! I thought it'd be interesting to have the petty squabbles over the throne happen at the same time as the Night King approaching KL.
Also... I think Jon is suicidal since hes come back from death. He just doesnt care if he dies, but obviously wants to do right by everybody. Since coming back, this is now three times hes pretty much thought 'fck it' and gone into a rage.
I do think they should have played more on that, on how dying and coming back has an affect on you.
I do think they should have played more on that, on how dying and coming back has an affect on you.
Exactly. He didn't just want to kill the Mountain he really wanted to get Tywin and he needed the public confession for that.
The first two episodes were literally just fan service and characters talking about how they were going to die. Maybe 5 minutes was dedicated to actual WW screentime, and then in the second episode they do a slow walk up and the NK gets stabbed and that's it.The Night King's death was too easy and therefore disappointing. It was very much 'oh, that's it?' for a lot of people. They only reached Winterfell before their plans collapsed, despite this being built up since S1 as an apocalyptic event which will tear apart the world of men. Instead, we get one actual battle (hardhome was just a massacre) and then arya does a knife trick .. problem solved.
We learn almost nothing about the NK and his motives, he's just evil for the sake of being evil. He's not fleshed out, his arc ends before it's really begun. The white walker threat even only manages to kill off a few characters, it's all just very meh for something which was built up as huge and world shattering.
If it’s actually all finished, I think that the writers of the TV series had to make a decision on how to wrap it up while GRRM is likely to have a very different storyline for them.
The WW threat is 100% over IMO. There's no way they'll do all that and then bring it back with only 3 episodes to go, I'd be shocked.
I didn't say it was half a season well spent on them
The Night King's death was too easy and therefore disappointing. It was very much 'oh, that's it?' for a lot of people. They only reached Winterfell before their plans collapsed, despite this being built up since S1 as an apocalyptic event which will tear apart the world of men. Instead, we get one actual battle (hardhome was just a massacre) and then arya does a knife trick .. problem solved.
We learn almost nothing about the NK and his motives, he's just evil for the sake of being evil. He's not fleshed out, his arc ends before it's really begun. The white walker threat even only manages to kill off a few characters, it's all just very meh for something which was built up as huge and world shattering.
But it was still half a season spent on them/the battle with them/whatever, that basically ignored all other strands. Whether it was poorly executed or not is another story. Personally I'm glad they're done now and we can focus on what I've always considered the most important part of the show, the damn throne. I certainly don't like how the first three episodes were done overall but whaddayagonnadoI didn't say it was half a season well spent on them
There wasn't enough screen time dedicated to them actually doing things.
That's fair enough, but surely you can understand why people who were more engaged with the WW threat and bought in to the hype about it might feel a tad short changed by the actual impact they had on the show? Their arc ended with barely any genuine repercussions for most major characters and we only really got one proper battle with them involved.
I mean the first scene from the first episode of the show is dedicated to immediately building them up as this ancient, mystical threat to mankind. It's a bit strange to end their threat halfway through the final season with one of those episodes actually featuring them.
One thing id say though is that given they pointed out how several people have valyrian weapons, they could have cut away to a few WW going off and thus having a battle, or implementing that, with some falling eventually (Jorah)whilst Brienne surviving (and her killing one, means the wights are destroyed, thus saving somebody like Jaime or Sam )
But the biggest annoyance was the way they set themselves up for the, hero just survives bit (or close shaves). There were too many of the heroes being surrounded and looking like no way out. They could have done that better.
Exactly. It makes sense given the way he is. They should mention it next episode, especially as he is the rightful heir.
)But the biggest annoyance was the way they set themselves up for the, hero just survives bit (or close shaves). There were too many of the heroes being surrounded and looking like no way out. They could have done that better.
Exactly. It makes sense given the way he is. They should mention it next episode, especially as he is the rightful heir.
Yeah, this guy makes the best GoT youtube compilations, check out Warriors and also Flares, if you love the show, you'll get a kick out of those.
Of course, I'm one of them. I'm just arguing against the idea that they didn't get enough time dedicated to them or whatever.
Oh sure, there's been loads of time dedicated to talking about them, mulling over the threat, some creepy shots of them walking around etc .. but very little actual payoff, I think that's the main issue people have.
But oh well, just gotta move on and hope there's enough left to finish the season strongly. I'm pretty 50/50 in that I really was interested in the WW threat, but I do prefer a bit of humanity to my villains so I'm not totally bummed out that Cersei is the 'final boss'.
I've noticed some Youtube reviewers gave the last episode a really good review on first impression, had second thoughts/listened to fan criticism and then gave it a lower score in another video after watching it twice. If it turns out that there's some twist with Bran in the next few episodes and that the WW aren't really gone I wonder if they might change their opinions on that episode yet again?
Sadly, I think episode 4 will just be a long set up for the big battle in episode 5 and we're running out of episodes for a really big surprise.
Sadly, I think episode 4 will just be a long set up for the big battle in episode 5 and we're running out of episodes for a really big surprise.
I dunno. Each of the last three episodes are about 80min each, so it's not like a normal three episodes. I reckon there's a surprise or two in store.
Hope so. Bran revealing himself to be the bad guy would be fun. Just don't do the Arya kills Cersei theory
If not even the NK, the White Walkers for definitely used poorly in that episode. Absolutely no reason they couldn't have at least one of the characters fight one, and would have saved some budget to suit. But I still like how Arya killed the NK, despite reservations at first. After watching again, it is pretty much explained how she did it and it was bad ass at least.
On the characters, Theon has surely had the best character arc IMO, up until this point anyway. He had the perfect ending too, he deserved to die but he also deserved a warrior's death with true forgivness. Since the show has fecked Jaime's story, only really Cersei has a potential ending left to top it.
On the characters, Theon has surely had the best character arc IMO, up until this point anyway. He had the perfect ending too, he deserved to die but he also deserved a warrior's death with true forgivness. Since the show has fecked Jaime's story, only really Cersei has a potential ending left to top it.
Agreed, I don't think there's enough time for Daenerys to become the Mad Queen unless there's a very quick resolution which would seem off. So it's Queen Cersei and then having a LOTR Return of the King style 20 endings.
I dunno, I still think they may. Remember who's writing it and it's like 2 1/2 films worth left, there's still time for them what with her character being all over the place as it is and some backstory for it.
There's possibly still more fallout from her burning Sam's dad and bro at least.
Is there a way to place bets on X will kill Y on betting sites? I have come up with a theory that is probably not shared by many, but to me is crazy enough that it might just happen. I want to back it up. :P
Episode 4. Dany will still have twenty thousand soldiers plus her dragons after marching down south picking up troops from the Vale and the River lands.
Episode 5. SMASHCRASHROARBANGOWFECK and Cersei kills both the dragons with super duper ballista shots. But Tyrion wins after it turns out he made tunnels in King's Landing for his whores as well and he'll rehash the voice over montage from Season 7.
Episode 6. Surprise! Euron is now King and he and Jon have a one on one fight. Because why the feck not at this point. Bron will kill Jaime with the crossbow because feck character development. Night King will reappear wearing sunglasses and driving in a convertible Cadillac.
Well, I imagine the Cersei battle will take up one episode, and the fallout of Winterfell/build up to Cersei will be next episode. Would there really be enough time to do her turning into the Mad Queen and then the fallout in the final episode? It would seem pretty rushed right? I do appreciate this is D&D but even for them, that seems just too fast.
Don't underestimate how fecked D&D can make you feel
But there has been plenty of hints all through the seasons, and right from the start about Targs possibly going mad. I think there's enough there for them to run with.
To be honest, at this point it's the only interesting ending for her anyway. I still want Cersei to end up queen, but a bitter old alone one after Jaime dies and she has lost everyone.
Random dagger used in the very first episode of the show, started the whole war of seven kingdoms and was passed to Arya by her precog brother in the very same spot last season. Yeah random..
Future talk should be in spoilers. I hope you haven't spoiled the rest of the season for everyone.
It was never tied to the Walker plotline in any way, yeah random. D&D surely highfived when they remembered it was Valyrian Steel so they could nick it and pass this off as meaningful.
Oh there's been hints for sure. But surely if Daenerys goes Mad then Jon will intervene and Daenerys isn't just going to stand aside so there will be some kind of combat and I don't think there's enough screentime to have both a Cersei and a Daenerys battle. Unless of course they end up doing some kind of lame scenario where she goes Mad, burns everyone but then gets stabbed in the back like her father. Or it simply ends with Daenerys as the Mad Queen on the thrown resetting the status quo.
I imagine Kings Landing being carpet bombed and the final prize is being the victor of a completely devastated country.