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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Grinner said:
Chlorinated chicken isn't necessarily bad though, is it?
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My understanding is chlorine wash is accepted in the EU for vegetables... The main reason it's not accepted for chicken is that it's so effective the EU standards people were worried it might allow abattoirs standards to slip in other areas
That said I've never researched in any great detail but I think it's an issue that's not going to be insurmountable in the grand scheme of things (I wonder how many UK tourists refuse to eat chicken if they visit the USA?)
 
Grinner said:
Chlorinated chicken isn't necessarily bad though, is it?
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It's not so much the chlorination of the chicken as the potential reduction in other regulatory safeguards during the manufacturing process. There are concerns that this means the end product is more likely to cause illness. There's some data to back this up. For instance the WHO reckons that US chicken is infected with Salmonella at 4- 5x the rate of that produced in the EU.

It's not just that though. Chickens produced via the US method, to the US standards, makes chickens about 20% cheaper than their European counterparts. UK farmers are therefore put in a predicament. They are forced to switch to US standards to avoid being undercut in their own market - but this necessitates a complete loss of access to their European markets.
 
sun_tzu said:
My understanding is chlorine wash is accepted in the EU for vegetables... The main reason it's not accepted for chicken is that it's so effective the EU standards people were worried it might allow abattoirs standards to slip in other areas
That said I've never researched in any great detail but I think it's an issue that's not going to be insurmountable in the grand scheme of things (I wonder how many UK tourists refuse to eat chicken if they visit the USA?)
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My understanding is that the chicken is perfectly fine to eat, just the practice of chlorinating is indicative of poor animal welfare practices in the rearing of the chickens.
 
Adisa said:
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Just because its excepted, doesnt mean you “have” to buy it.

“Yeah sure absolutely we will allow chlorinated chicken if anyone wants it”

Nobody wants it, so its a non issue.
 
Ducklegs said:
Just because its excepted, doesnt mean you “have” to buy it.

“Yeah sure absolutely we will allow chlorinated chicken if anyone wants it”

Nobody wants it, so its a non issue.
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You say that but if people are skint on benefits or a student or whatever and it's cheaper, they'll buy it.
 
Saw a stat not long ago that meat contamination rate in the US is something like 12% in the US but <2% in the UK.
 
Jippy said:
You say that but if people are skint on benefits or a student or whatever and it's cheaper, they'll buy it.
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Its as simple as that everyone, if you ignore everything else that factors in to the equation of course.

But lets make it simpler so we dont end up going round and round in circles if YOU dont want to buy chlorinated chicken, you dont have to, I wont, the wife wont, so regardless of whether the option to import chlorinated chicken if there is a market for it, if you choose not to buy it, you wont have to.

If the UK enforces its own standards on chicken production and slaughter (and having worked in that industry and currently for the largest wholesale food supplier on the planet) there is no way that it can be done much cheaper.

The chickens are battery farmed within 50 miles of the factory, they are shipped straight the factory with no stops, straight off the lorry and directly on to the slaughter line, no stopping, no waiting , no delays, it progresses through the factory and is hung up, stunned, bleed, boiled, defeathered, penned, cut up and packaged in around 10 minutes.

There is no way, even accounting for price by volume that it will be cheaper by any considerable margin to kill a chicken in the states, treat it, freeze it, sail it over, and distribute it in the uk cheaper than moy park can do it.

Even if the UK accepts chlorination as a standard, there is no requirement for it as it doesnt save any money, its just an additional cost to current production methods.
 
Maticmaker said:
Yes, published off and on for the last forty years or so, based on Jeremy's own actions and utterances during this period, his Marxist stance also highlighted in the Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Express, etc.
Please can we stop saying Jeremy's Marxism is a figment of the presses imagination, both he and John McDonnell are life long Marxists and as far as I can see both are proud of it.
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Evidence?

Citing The Sun was not good enough I'm afraid.
 
BobbyManc said:
This never made the manifesto though, did it? It was just an idea that was floated around. It's certainly unconventional but how radical it is is up for debate. Also, hasn't the ECB embarked on their own policy of QE? See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30933515 and https://www.neweurope.eu/article/ecb-prepares-for-a-second-wave-of-quantitative-easing/
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He set out the policy in his ‘economic manifesto’ in 2015, called The Economy in 2020.

It’s a fundamentally different policy from regular quantitive easing, such as that carried out by the BoE and ECB, whereby a central bank independently buys bonds, and can later unwind that policy. What Corbyn proposes is a whole different beast.

I don’t get this idea that Corbyn has not proposed ‘radical’ economic policies - quite a lot of what he was talking about, especially in the early days of his leadership, was way outside the mainstream. Whether you think that’s a good or a bad thing depends on your view of economics, I guess.
 
People shitting their pants over chlorinated chicken just about sums the remain campaign up. Laughable. Nobody knew about chlorinated chicken until somebody said it after brexit

Half the whinge bag toffs have took 4 kids to Disneyland at some point and guess what, the chicken was normal

There’s better hills to die on
 
Steven Seagull said:
People shitting their pants over chlorinated chicken just about sums the remain campaign up. Laughable. Nobody knew about chlorinated chicken until somebody said it after brexit

Half the whinge bag toffs have took 4 kids to Disneyland at some point and guess what, the chicken was normal

There’s better hills to die on
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Yup that part in bold is exactly what I meant earlier

As you say far better hills to die on as below it seems like a fairly dry issue that's being blown up into a more emotive context

https://fullfact.org/europe/does-eu-say-its-safe-eat-chicken-rinsed-chlorine/
 
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I would say it is more the principle. Sure enough we are going to get bullied by the U.S into accepting their demands in order to get any sort of trade deal. Any other major country will likely do the same as they know that we are in a shite position to negotiate.
 


The man who wasn't elected by the people denies Parliament can stop him from driving the country off a cliff.
 
Walrus said:
I would say it is more the principle. Sure enough we are going to get bullied by the U.S into accepting their demands in order to get any sort of trade deal. Any other major country will likely do the same as they know that we are in a shite position to negotiate.
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No it isn’t principle. feck me talk about grasping at shite. Nobody cares about how meat is sorted in UK and nobody was using it as an excuse before.

And if they weren’t, they should’ve been.
 
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The uk infrastructure has been shit for decades, way behind anything you find in europe. It will remain shit if UK stays or leaves. So what are the expectations of the people to any reverse of leaving?
 
Steven Seagull said:
What do you think should happen matt?
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If the PM resigns or is replaced by his or her party, there should be a general election rather than a membership election to determine the next Prime Minister. It is absurd that 90k people get to choose the Prime Minister without facing the public. In all likelihood, the Tories would win because Labour are astonishingly incompetent, but the PM shouldn't be chosen by .2% of the British electorate.
 
Ducklegs said:
There is no way, even accounting for price by volume that it will be cheaper by any considerable margin to kill a chicken in the states, treat it, freeze it, sail it over, and distribute it in the uk cheaper than moy park can do it.

.
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That's a strong statement. Makes you wonder why US farmers would be so keen on the UK market: Will this still be true under more relaxed health and safety regulations?
 
Red Dreams said:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/uk-food-drug-fuel-shortage-risk-brexit_n_5d589a5fe4b0eb875f24d5f9

Leaked Documents Show UK Faces Food, Fuel And Drugs Shortages In No-Deal Brexit
The Sunday Times obtained documents showing that Britain will face shortages if it leaves the European Union without a transition deal.
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This is so much bull, my cousin works in imports and exports he told me that it will be fine as the goods are cleared before leaving - "do you think a business would fill a container full of oranges, that could sit on a road and go to waste?" He did also say that we've been getting mugged off years.

I work in services (IT) and we had our meeting on Brexit last year that covered exports and importing of services under WTO and there are the same tariffs on WTO and EU. In fact we spoke about the 0% tariff on importing services from the US and they said It wouldn't change at all. I asked twice... As I a project on with a company in the US.
 
Red Dreams said:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/uk-food-drug-fuel-shortage-risk-brexit_n_5d589a5fe4b0eb875f24d5f9

Leaked Documents Show UK Faces Food, Fuel And Drugs Shortages In No-Deal Brexit
The Sunday Times obtained documents showing that Britain will face shortages if it leaves the European Union without a transition deal.
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Project Fear 2.0 the leavers will say !!

Why can't the UK simply leave tomorrow with no deal, Winston Johnson has told us all will be well let's take him at his word and if it all goes to pot well "Its Democracy we voted to leave".
 
Steven Seagull said:
No it isn’t principle. feck me talk about grasping at shite. Nobody cares about how meat is sorted in UK and nobody was using it as an excuse before.

And if they weren’t, they should’ve been.
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It is symbolic of the sorts of trade offs that will be required in any trade negotiation. There are things that some people will care a lot about - NHS, GM food, visas for Indian workers etc.
 
dogrob said:
Project Fear 2.0 the leavers will say !!

Why can't the UK simply leave tomorrow with no deal, Winston Johnson has told us all will be well let's take him at his word and if it all goes to pot well "Its Democracy we voted to leave".
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Its not project fear its just worry and selling story's.



and here is the back up to what the guy is saying in the video: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/temporary-tariff-regime-for-no-deal-brexit-published (this was released 2 year after this video, or so)

"Under the temporary tariff, 87% of total imports to the UK by value would be eligible for tariff free access"
 
The only thing he does is bluster. There's nothing stopping is leaving tomorrow.
 
Steven Seagull said:
No it isn’t principle. feck me talk about grasping at shite. Nobody cares about how meat is sorted in UK and nobody was using it as an excuse before.

And if they weren’t, they should’ve been.
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The point is the UK will have to have the same regulations and same standards as the EU to avoid a hard border between them, which has been stated since day one, nothing new. If the Uk want chlorinated chicken or anything else that doesn't meet the standards or regulations of the EU no-one's stopping the UK from importing it but then we know what the consequences of that are.
 
711 said:
I'd say the reverse, being PM is the thing he cares about. He was as much Remain as Brexit at one time, but plumped for Brexit as he thought it would get him the backing of the Tory membership against other contenders who were likely to be Remain. Then when May won and pledged Brexit herself he went hard Brexit for the same reason, and to be fair it's worked, he's got what he wanted.

edit: what Pex said.
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Really, he's an idiot.

If he had supported Cameron and the remain campaign, he could have been PM just as soon and people would still like him.

He could have done a deal with Cameron, "I'll back remain if you agree to retire at the next election."

Cameron/Johnson vs Corbyn, The Tories would be popular and win majorities for multiple parliaments.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
If there's no deal I don't see why the EU have to agree to it. The Uk will break the GFA, renegue on its obligations and put its international status down the drain .
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We remain a part of the EU untill the agreed exit date unless both parties agree otherwise

Anything unilateral would be a breech of international treaties and as such illegal / actionable ) sanctionable
 
A particular favourite of mine regarding Minford:


The U.K. automotive industry employs 856,000 people and accounts for 12% of U.K. exports.

Much of the blind faith that Brexit will not destroy manufacturing industries is based on the thinking of economist Patrick Minford. However, in 2012 he told a parliamentary committee that the U.K. leaving the European Union would result in the automotive sector suffering a “big transitional loss.” He claimed that there would be more “gainers than losers” because cheaper imported cars would flood into the U.K. He agreed this would all but destroy U.K. car manufacturing.

Minford is professor of economics at Cardiff Business School, a former advisor to Margaret Thatcher and supporter of the U.K. poll tax introduced in 1989 and which led to riots in 1990.


Bearing in mind the UK's biggest exports to both the USA and China are cars.

 
sun_tzu said:
We remain a part of the EU untill the agreed exit date unless both parties agree otherwise

Anything unilateral would be a breech of international treaties and as such illegal / actionable ) sanctionable
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Yes but if the UK break the GFA which is also an international treaty presumably they're not worried.
 
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