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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Can we just have a few years of this? It’s the political equivalent of this:

 
Ronnie Campbell, Stephen Hepburn and Kate Hoey voted Aye from Labour
 
Raees said:
@finneh it’s one thing saying something pre election and to avoid scrutiny - it’s another to have it as actual policy and for it to be put into action.

This Tory government has been very right wing not just on Brexit but in terms of the way it has cut spending all over the shop knowing full well the poorest in society have been hit the hardest... not to mention the way they handled Grenfall which was symbolic of their utter contempt for people of a different race and social class to themselves.

We’ve had 9 years of Tory government to know their word means feck all. Left and liberal my ass.
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I didn't say the Tory government in general... I was questioning the perceived accepted notion that over the last couple of months the government has become far more right wing; when the evidence shows the contrary.

I'm guessing the answer is simply that it's an easy attack to say the government has become "far right" over the last couple of months, despite little evidence.

MadMike said:
You don't have to agree with the premise. It is a thing regardless.

A socialist party that becomes more authoritarian and controlling, is one we say has moved to the far left. And a right party that becomes authoritarian, nationalist, racist is moving to the far right. You move too far on either direction and you get totalitarianism.

But you have to move to towards an extreme, and Tories have moved in that direction. They have PM that's called people piccaninnies while women in burqas were likened to bin bags ffs. It's being run by the campaign director of Leave, that chose to use these posters.
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In my view it's far more nuanced than that. I don't believe Tony Blair was any of the terms you've described (no fan of him either by the way) however his huge mandate meant he could push through policies that could be deemed undemocratic or totalitarian. But to suggest he moved his party anywhere apart from bolt centre would be incorrect.

I don't think a party can be deemed "moving to the far right" if the entirety of their policy message is in fact moving towards the centre of messages of spending, immigration, social issues etc.

It's a lazy miscategorisation is my only point (coming from someone who dislikes Johnson).
 
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I've a feeling the government is allowed to resign en masse. No idea what the protocol is in such an event, but I guess it would be similar to a vote of no confidence.
 
Ban said:
Can someone explain to me what happened in the last 2 days?
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Some of parliament think they have stopped a no deal Brexit - which they haven't.

The MPs who did want an election don't want it now and the MPs who didn't want an election do want it now.

They also thought they got rid of the worst PM in history but find they've now got a worse one.
 
Jess Phillips gave a hell of a speech. Ken Clarke and herself were the only pair making any sense.
 
Buster15 said:
If anyone actually believe that the UK is better off by 'getting into bed' with the US and that we will get a favorable trade deal, compared with our current relationship with the EU, then think again.
The US will always ensure that any trade deal will be on their terms and that they get exactly what they want out of it. It will be on a take it or leave it basis.
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agree. especially with scumbag Trump as president.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Some of parliament think they have stopped a no deal Brexit - which they haven't.

The MPs who did want an election don't want it now and the MPs who didn't want an election do want it now.

They also thought they got rid of the worst PM in history but find they've now got a worse one.
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What’s the incentive for Corbyn to call an election until after October 31st? Providing this bill goes through doesn’t it make it very likely that no deal is off the table.
 
T00lsh3d said:
If he resigns, isn’t another Tory called up, as he was when Teresa May resigned? Forgive my ignorance
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Hers was a party resignation. Before the Fixed term act a government could certainly resign to trigger a GE now it's all a bit untested and unknown.
 
Trying to understand Boris's gameplan, as it looks so disastrous that it's likely actually by design.

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...S9GBNfs6Hd-GDb657uma4e3WnbJgcWtUpaeV9c-WhyU8S

Looks like this bill to block No deal, may itself be blocked by filibustering in the House of Lords until prorogation. And then No deal occurs by default. Probably more complex than that. He must be very confident in the Lords.
 
Berbasbullet said:
What’s the incentive for Corbyn to call an election until after October 31st? Providing this bill goes through doesn’t it make it very likely that no deal is off the table.
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Whilst A50 hasn't been revoked no deal is always on the table, to avoid no deal the UK parliament has to agree to a deal which they so far haven't and don't look as if they ever will. The bill just calls to ask for an extension.
 
Berbasbullet said:
What’s the incentive for Corbyn to call an election until after October 31st? Providing this bill goes through doesn’t it make it very likely that no deal is off the table.
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Hard to drag this out that long. Two months of a minority government screaming for an election would risk pissing off the public too much.
 
OohAahMartial said:
Trying to understand Boris's gameplan, as it looks so disastrous that it's likely actually by design.

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...S9GBNfs6Hd-GDb657uma4e3WnbJgcWtUpaeV9c-WhyU8S

Looks like this bill to block No deal, may itself be blocked by filibustering in the House of Lords until prorogation. And then No deal occurs by default. Probably more complex than that. He must be very confident in the Lords.
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The Lord's will let it through. If they don't they will effectively sign the death warrent for the House of Lords by stopping legislation approved by the elected house. They simply don't do that.
 
The last few days have been the (not so) slow realisation from the Tories that the reason Boris puts on a front of being an ignorant, fumbling buffoon, is because he is one...and they've allowed him to become their Prime Minister.

He's acting like he thinks this is all some game of chess he can win but then keeps being caught out because he doesn't understand the rules. The proroguing move could really work against him now, and I can't figure out how it was ever going to work out well.

Particularly amused by him being called out on his remarks about Muslims. Had nothing to do with what was going on but it made him look like a complete moron.

Best he can do now is try to force through an election but can't see that happening without it being on Labour's terms. He's just turfed out a chunk of his own party for no real reason. Trying to rule through fear on some of the others. It's like he challenged himself to make Theresa May look competent.
 
balaks said:
The Lord's will let it through. If they don't they will effectively sign the death warrent for the House of Lords by stopping legislation approved by the elected house. They simply don't do that.
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Things have been talked out in the Lords before.
 
noodlehair said:
The last few days have been the (not so) slow realisation from the Tories that the reason Boris puts on a front of being an ignorant, fumbling buffoon, is because he is one...and they've allowed him to become their Prime Minister.
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noodlehair said:
The last few days have been the (not so) slow realisation from the Tories that the reason Boris puts on a front of being an ignorant, fumbling buffoon, is because he is one...and they've allowed him to become their Prime Minister.

He's acting like he thinks this is all some game of chess he can win but then keeps being caught out because he doesn't understand the rules. The proroguing move could really work against him now, and I can't figure out how it was ever going to work out well.

Particularly amused by him being called out on his remarks about Muslims. Had nothing to do with what was going on but it made him look like a complete moron.

Best he can do now is try to force through an election but can't see that happening without it being on Labour's terms. He's just turfed out a chunk of his own party for no real reason. Trying to rule through fear on some of the others. It's like he challenged himself to make Theresa May look competent.
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All I can think is that they didn’t factor in that Corbyn and the others might refuse an election. Everything else makes a twisted kind of sense up to that point, but now they just look stupid. Although probably worth remembering that most people aren’t nerding on this stuff like we are, and may well buy into Boris’s obvious election gambit of trying to paint the Tories as the defenders of the people’s will.
 
balaks said:
The Lord's will let it through. If they don't they will effectively sign the death warrent for the House of Lords by stopping legislation approved by the elected house. They simply don't do that.
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The end of the Lords might be the only good thing to come out of this if so. We still have hereditary members for feck's sake. Unbelievable.
 
Kentonio said:
All I can think is that they didn’t factor in that Corbyn and the others might refuse an election. Everything else makes a twisted kind of sense up to that point, but now they just look stupid. Although probably worth remembering that most people aren’t nerding on this stuff like we are, and may well buy into Boris’s obvious election gambit of trying to paint the Tories as the defenders of the people’s will.
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Why have an Election now when Boris is now a lame duck Prime Minister with no majority ?

Better to wait and get rid of No Deal first
 
The Telegraph is a fanzine these days:
The Tory party is dead; long live the Tory party. The seismic realignment that was supposed to take place in 2016 is finally upon us, and a tougher, rougher, non-deferential conservatism is making its explosive debut.

[...]

Right now, Johnson and Cummings are still on a path to success, even if they have had to recalibrate their journey several times as obstacles have emerged. The situation is tense, the PM is feeling the pressure and much of the Cabinet is in a state of shock. But Boris hasn’t been “humiliated”. He hasn’t been “wrong-footed”.

The semi-prorogation didn’t “backfire”: it flushed out his hardcore opponents and allowed him to expel them. He knew he would have to do something drastic at some stage and there was no way that those committed to derailing his plans would ever have been allowed to stand under Tory colours at the election. His party was already split de facto, if not de jure; he was always leading a minority government in all but name. The sackings merely formalised this.

[...]

Last but not least, engineering a delay in Brexit would simply encourage the Government to go for broke. If they were to back a no-deal Brexit, Nigel Farage would step aside and the Leave vote would unite. I am sure those in No 10 genuinely and rightly want a deal. But they may not have a choice if furious voters begin to turn to the Brexit Party again. Do the Remainers really want to goad Downing Street in this way?

Johnson’s gamble was breathtaking in its ambition: he would take over a fatally divided Tory party with no majority, forcibly reform it in his image and gain a pro-Brexit majority. For all of the madness of the past few days, I’m still predicting that he will pull it off.
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