You used the word snowflake. It usually follows that you are called some sort of racist, sexist or just cut to the chase and call you Hitler.
"Blackface" Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You used the word snowflake. It usually follows that you are called some sort of racist, sexist or just cut to the chase and call you Hitler.
The way you were bemoaning the snowflake era we live in, it seemed like you were suggesting that anyone who found blackface inappropriate is a snowflake.
Of course I imagine many of us have done or said something inappropriate in the past, but it’s not a ‘snowflake’ response to highlight incidents in which discriminatory behaviour has occurred.
Not sure if serious... Typically if one uses the word "snowflake" in the context of a thread about blackface, one does not understand the existing and historic undertones and overtones that come with such a practice, which is an ignorance that must be corrected. The alternative is that one understands what blackface represents, doesn't care, and will choose to downplay it anyway. This makes one an asshole at best, or racist at worst.
It was quite obvious that the poster was referring to things many people have in their past which may be embarrassing or offensive . A general observation, not one specific to black face.
Honestly, there really isn't any need to assume the worst about everything posted.
Well, considering I'm not white and have lived through changing times, along with my parents before me, I think I fully understand the whole issue around racism, blackface, stereotyping, whatever you want to include and am more than qualified to express a view. So you may want to think first before you go making assumptions. And remember, it wasn't that long ago that the issue around that stupid Lukaku song came up and some fans who would probably claim not to be racist didn't see anything wrong with it.
These are the types of things I was exactly talking about. People just like to get on their soap boxes and get offended unnecessarily.
Firstly, I wasn't talking about you, I said "one" in my response to @WensleyMU because I didn't want you to get offended, which you did anyway. People take issue with inappropriate and damaging uses of the word snowflake, and that's without even addressing your ridiculous implication that everyone has done blackface or worse.
Believe me, I'm not offended and nowhere did I imply that everyone has done blackface. Mate you need to learn to read.
Ah come on for feck sake. There was no implication that everyone has done blackface or worse.
I’ve got blackheads. Does that count? Mind you, I do find it oddly satisfying squeezing them out.
Not sure. Can you elaborate a little and I'll give it some thought? It was quite a while ago and I don't tend to spend too much time thinking about Spanish cultural activities from hundreds of years ago through a modern lens, so my thinking on it is a little rusty.
Why did blackface originate in Spain as a cultural tradition? I think if you remove intentionality from that question, it's hard to come to a useful answer, never mind a complete one. But I've not given it a lot of thought.
I don't think we should discard intentionality completely, but in the current context, absolutely, if Justin Trudeau was to say "I didn't mean it in a racist way", most people would laugh it off. Most others who wouldn't, are using Trudeau as a vehicle to defend their own actions - past or present. Removing intentionality from the discussion completely now has some small downsides, but it does have broad benefits that make it worthwhile. I'm not sure the same approach can be applied to explaining the origins of these things from hundreds of years ago.
Justin is from an incredibly privileged white French Canadian family. He was never really meant to enter politics because he was too much of a mimbo to be taken seriously.
Then, the political party his father made into legends screwed up and needed a saviour, so they turned to the heir of the Great Leader (even if he probably is one of the Rolling Stone's kids).
That being said, considering his background and chosen career at the time, you can bet it had a racist element. He has no ethics, something he's proven a few times as Prime Minister.
Then, the political party his father made into legends screwed up and needed a saviour, so they turned to the heir of the Great Leader (even if he probably is one of the Rolling Stone's kids).
That being said, considering his background and chosen career at the time, you can bet it had a racist element. He has no ethics, something he's proven a few times as Prime Minister.
Sometimes I get the feeling these fashion brands are trolling us black folk
Both Italian brands. Looks like it's not just football fans at it.
whilst I agree that people are too easily offended these days and bemoan it myself sometimes, I don't think it helps to use terms like SJW and snowflake etc.. This language is sometimes used to attack and undermine groups and individuals striving for legitimate social change in society. And sometimes, we do need to protest and kick up a fuss to make impactful changes (women's rights movement, civil rights movement, workers rights etc etc...). It just confuses and debases the entire discussion to throw these terms around (the fact this is being discussed in the blackface thread supports this viewpoint I think).
In essense I'm saying even if the Spanish practice came from something less toxic than slavery appropriating a cultural identity in such a way can never be more than fancy dress/parody/stereotyping in the modern world. In most parts of the world, and particularly Europe, it is surely almost impossible not to realise how racist it is even if you don't know the history of blackface in the US?
Then again one of my son's mates turned up for his 18th in black face as Snoop Dogg (who he loved). It wasn't meant badly at all and probably the opposite. There was a very long silence followed by an akward conversation period. Shortly after the blackface had been washed off, presumably the message got through. So I guess it might not be as obvious as I thought.
Only if they were originally white spots and you coloured them black with a felt tip pen.
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I share almost identical views! To me it is baffling that some people in Spain genuinely did not realise it's racist, even with no knowledge of American culture whatsoever. However I do appreciate that it's hard to transport myself into the mind of someone living in a small community, out in the countryside, only ever speaking Spanish and never engaging with the English speaking world. But I don't think it's a good excuse, In any way.
The comment you picked up on was purely focused on the origins of it though. Why did people in Spain do it hundreds of years ago, and can you truly say it "only existed with racism at its origins"? I don't think she provided any evidence to support that, and without evidence, that "education" is relegated to a simple display of cultural superiority, which is counter productive to the purported cause.
I'm wondering if only one of the three wise men is usyally depicted as black why do people in this part of spain only dress up in blackface with exaggerated bright red lips?
Probably a pointless question as we have no infornation about the number of wise men (if they existed at all) or their ethnic origins.
Probably a pointless question as we have no infornation about the number of wise men (if they existed at all) or their ethnic origins.
Does pretending to be black to win an argument on the internet technically count as blacking up?
I find that racism is alive and well in Canada at a time when it's been largely blunted in the States.
Probably
Because it's 2019.
Trudeau is really one of the worst kind of centrist "liberal". Maybe only Macron is worse on the global political stage. This won't affect the election though, being a racist has never been a disqualifying factor in Western political races.
Someone has already been outed in here for doing this. Of course it didn't end well for him.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cop-in-america-doing-a-bad-job-again.420394/page-5#post-19737624
Maybe the Spanish are more accurate in their assumptions that none of the wise men were European. Doesn't make it right that they paint their faces.
As far as Trudeau goes maybe there are a lot of people around still who had to have it pointed out to them at some time that their actions were racist without them being aware that it was or feeling that they were actually racist.
Alright, 40 years ago I might have repeated the odd Jock and Paddy walk into a bar jokes without knowing I was being extremely racist. I'd like to apologise again.
Good costume! It's 2001 ffs. At Uni in Manchester in 2007 people were doing this kind of thing for fun...nobody gave a shit. Then came things like the Guardian opinion column and everyone decided it was racist. Can blackface be racist? YES of course but the really poor judgement from many is to then make the jump and say all black face is racist.
Remember there's a good portion of black people who don't care and think it's ok too.
It's a fancy dress party ffs.
I dressed up as Zwarte Piet in the 8th grade to help entertain the kindergardners. We all did that as the 8th grade since it was mandatory with Sinterklaas. Thats racist now, but does it make 9 year old me a racist? Or the teacher organizing the celebration?
I know its racist now, so if I did it now it is, but back then I didnt even understand the concept of it. These 500 yr old pictures should feck off.
I know its racist now, so if I did it now it is, but back then I didnt even understand the concept of it. These 500 yr old pictures should feck off.
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It's only racism come on now.
You feel that we're not being outspoken enough? Or perhaps disingenuous @dumbo ?
There are three wise men, and in this case (the Alcoy parade that you are talking about) there are so many because they represent the pages of Baltasar.
Maybe the whole idea of an Arabian Nights themed party is racist?
We had a fancy dress at work and this guy came in a dinosaur costume. That's a bit dinosaurist, if you ask me.
It's dressing up, it's infantile for adults to do it in the first place.
We had a fancy dress at work and this guy came in a dinosaur costume. That's a bit dinosaurist, if you ask me.
It's dressing up, it's infantile for adults to do it in the first place.
@FootyGirl88 remember what I said in the Lukaku thread? This place is so predictable 
@FootyGirl88 remember what I said in the Lukaku thread? This place is so predictable
Yep, they never disappoint.
@FootyGirl88 remember what I said in the Lukaku thread? This place is so predictable
This is all a bit passive/aggressive. If you truly wanted to make private comments to each other you'd have pm'd.
We're not being passive aggressive, we're simply observing the nature of some of these posts
Yes, perhaps you are both being just a bit predictableWe're not being passive aggressive, we're simply observing the nature of some of these posts
Who said I wanted to make anything private?