Westminster Politics

Commentator Toby Young has defended Boris Johnson over allegations that he groped two women at a lunch when he was editor of the Spectator magazine, claiming that when they worked together "people complained if Boris didn't put his hand on their knee."

Christ who needs enemies when your friends are this stupid.
 
Sweet Square said:
Click to expand...

IM guessing shes talking about BIM modeling which has recently been mandated on all government backed schemes ... in fairness last time i was on crossrail the BIM model showed revision 3 and we were working on a 2d paper copy of revision 21 because they BIM modeling was so far behind
basically there is some sense in what shes saying - just unfortunately she really does not understand why the words are on her autocue or what they actually mean ... that said Im sure Mcvey exists as a front bench MP solely to make Boris and Mogg look moderate
 
sun_tzu said:
makes a GNU and an interim PM more likely I guess.
Logically if you dont do it this week your going to wait till 19th when he is supposed to write the letter...
if he does not then 21st vote of no confidence motion is presented
22nd debated (boris probably looses)
that leaves 9 days for somebody to command the confidence of the house, them to ask for (and presumably attain) agreement from the EU to extend... then to bring that back to the commons (does it also have to go through the lords???)
its going to be very tight - I can only assume the opposition parties have a pretty good idea of somebody they can coalesce around for that majority as there really isn't time to spend a week arguing over it
Think im gonna stick a few hundred quid on ken clarke
EDIT - Though Margaret Becket has seen her odds shorten a lot today suggesting somebody has piled a lot of money on her or there are some string rumours around
14/1 two days ago
12/1 one day ago
6/1 today...
Click to expand...

I love Beckett but can't see it. I think Clarke will be kingmaker as opposed to king. Bercow is a very interesting option but unlikely unless they plan to run it well past 31st. I've no idea who it'd be honestly.
 
golden_blunder said:
It’s said that the ones backing BoJo are in it for billions. That surely has to have some part in his mentality
Click to expand...

Loads will be in it for billions on both sides. Both Jane Street and SIG [and likely most other fintech type firm] for example on the remain/extend side. Most won't be directly connected to politics whatsoever, and the two sides command dark forces powerful enough, that one trying to have politicians act as their agent seems unlikely.
 
BobbyManc said:
It's shocking how little comment this story has generated. Truly depressing.
Click to expand...
I believe the story 100%.
But, still I can understand the public being not interested in something like that which happened 20 years ago.
 
UweBein said:
I believe the story 100%.
But, still I can understand the public being not interested in something like that which happened 20 years ago.
Click to expand...

The timing is almost certainly politically motivated. And when you are using alleged sexual assault against you for political ends, it tends to dull the seriousness of the allegations, as well as potentially dishonour other victims.
 
owlo said:
Loads will be in it for billions on both sides. Both Jane Street and SIG [and likely most other fintech type firm] for example on the remain/extend side. Most won't be directly connected to politics whatsoever, and the two sides command dark forces powerful enough, that one trying to have politicians act as their agent seems unlikely.
Click to expand...
There’s an MP with a polish surname (can’t remember) who was/is a big leave advocate. He works for a financial firm as far as I remember and was trying to lobby the Polish government against granting the Uk an extension first time around.
 
sun_tzu said:
makes a GNU and an interim PM more likely I guess.
Logically if you dont do it this week your going to wait till 19th when he is supposed to write the letter...
if he does not then 21st vote of no confidence motion is presented
22nd debated (boris probably looses)
that leaves 9 days for somebody to command the confidence of the house, them to ask for (and presumably attain) agreement from the EU to extend... then to bring that back to the commons (does it also have to go through the lords???)
its going to be very tight - I can only assume the opposition parties have a pretty good idea of somebody they can coalesce around for that majority as there really isn't time to spend a week arguing over it
Think im gonna stick a few hundred quid on ken clarke
EDIT - Though Margaret Becket has seen her odds shorten a lot today suggesting somebody has piled a lot of money on her or there are some string rumours around
14/1 two days ago
12/1 one day ago
6/1 today...
Click to expand...

How does it make it more likely considering the very limited time-frame after the 19th as you mentioned?

Surely if they triggered the VONC this week (with 2 weeks to agree for a compromise) that would make it more likely get a GNU? If they can't agree in 2 weeks what makes you think they'll agree in a day or two after the 19th?
 
owlo said:
I love Beckett but can't see it. I think Clarke will be kingmaker as opposed to king. Bercow is a very interesting option but unlikely unless they plan to run it well past 31st. I've no idea who it'd be honestly.
Click to expand...
yeah - though it would have to be before 31st if Boris refuses to send the letter i think - also I assume he would have to stand down as speaker to make that an option?
 
MadMike said:
How does it make it more likely considering the very limited time-frame after the 19th as you mentioned?

Surely if they triggered the VONC this week (with 2 weeks to agree for a compromise) that would make it more likely get a GNU? If they can't agree in 2 weeks what makes you think they'll agree in a day or two after the 19th?
Click to expand...

I could see them bickering and not agreeing a candidate to coalesce around... the fact that they seem prepared to run the clock down makes me think in the background there is at least an informal agreement as to who they might back
 
MadMike said:
How does it make it more likely considering the very limited time-frame after the 19th as you mentioned?

Surely if they triggered the VONC this week (with 2 weeks to agree for a compromise) that would make it more likely get a GNU? If they can't agree in 2 weeks what makes you think they'll agree in a day or two after the 19th?
Click to expand...

They really should be sounding it all out prior to the VONC to be fair. I don't think it would be a bad idea to do indicative votes early on.

In fact what might be embarrassing for the PM is if they do that prior to kicking him out, they're probably not that dickish though.
 
Smores said:
They really should be sounding it all out prior to the VONC to be fair. I don't think it would be a bad idea to do indicative votes early on.

In fact what might be embarrassing for the PM is if they do that prior to kicking him out, they're probably not that dickish though.
Click to expand...
dont think labour would sanction it if there was a realistic chance that corbyn could be humiliated ... (I think there is a very realistic possibility he would and might well get less votes than johnson would command)
 
sun_tzu said:
I could see them bickering and not agreeing a candidate to coalesce around... the fact that they seem prepared to run the clock down makes me think in the background there is at least an informal agreement as to who they might back
Click to expand...

But if there was an informal agreement on who to back, why not trigger the VONC now? What's the benefit of leaving it last minute?

Also, whatever the opposition agree to privately, they mathematically need independents & Tory rebels to back them too. There are 34 independents currently, the 4th largest group in parliament more than Libs, CUKs, Plaids and Greens put together. They are not in these talks. So even if the parties of the opposition are united behind someone, that doesn't mean that that person will command the majority of the House or that there won't have to be last-minute negotiations anyway. And the less time there is for those, the less feasible it becomes.

I'm not convinced. I feel they're just kicking the can down the road to avoid having to take difficult decisions now. Which is very politician-like.
 
owlo said:
I love Beckett but can't see it. I think Clarke will be kingmaker as opposed to king. Bercow is a very interesting option but unlikely unless they plan to run it well past 31st. I've no idea who it'd be honestly.
Click to expand...

Can’t be Bercow, they’d claim his actions as speaker were just a big power grab. No need to give them unnecessary ammunition.
 
Kentonio said:
Can’t be Bercow, they’d claim his actions as speaker were just a big power grab. No need to give them unnecessary ammunition.
Click to expand...

Exactly the reason it could well be him. A figure on his way out soon anyway, that will absolutely incense the brexiteers, and would have no real partisan interest past the whole brexit thing.

sun_tzu said:
I could see them bickering and not agreeing a candidate to coalesce around... the fact that they seem prepared to run the clock down makes me think in the background there is at least an informal agreement as to who they might back
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with this. They'll have mathed it carefully, including approaching tory rebels etc.
 
MadMike said:
But if there was an informal agreement on who to back, why not trigger the VONC now? What's the benefit of leaving it last minute?
Click to expand...

The longer this goes on, the more it looks like an absolute madhouse with a tory government spinning dangerously out of control. It also lets them say 'we gave him a chance to get a deal before stepping in.'

Boris is in an impossible situation; half the polls say he's comfortable (ipsos yougov) and has the brexiteers in the bag, the other half say he's a bit screwed. Usually in these cases you plan for the worst case - if he's screwed he would go for more 'moderate' votes to bring it home, however he actually can't do that in this instance as anything he does to allay fears on that side, push the other away. Electorally these weeks of chaos play perfectly for the opposition. It's why the tories are trying to goad them so badly.
 
owlo said:
The longer this goes on, the more it looks like an absolute madhouse with a tory government spinning dangerously out of control. It also lets them say 'we gave him a chance to get a deal before stepping in.'

Boris is in an impossible situation; half the polls say he's comfortable (ipsos yougov) and has the brexiteers in the bag, the other half say he's a bit screwed. Usually in these cases you plan for the worst case - if he's screwed he would go for more 'moderate' votes to bring it home, however he actually can't do that in this instance as anything he does to allay fears on that side, push the other away. Electorally these weeks of chaos play perfectly for the opposition. It's why the tories are trying to goad them so badly.
Click to expand...

I understand there’s associated benefits with waiting, but there’s also disadvantages (the timetable for starters) which for me heavily outweigh them. I think you’re placing way too much stock in our politicians if you think they’ve got this all planned and sussed out and are merely waiting to inflict as much damage on the Tories as possible.

Whatever plan they have in mind (if they even have one) it could be upended by the independent actors in this, the Govt and the EU. The less time there is to react to unforeseen circumstances, the less likely it is that their plan works out.
 
golden_blunder said:
There’s an MP with a polish surname (can’t remember) who was/is a big leave advocate. He works for a financial firm as far as I remember and was trying to lobby the Polish government against granting the Uk an extension first time around.
Click to expand...

Kawczynki (sp?) is a snake. He's intertwined with electrum. Baker too with glint pay and the whole Singham 'running' the erg thing.

Thing is, gold is on the way up anyway, it doesn't really need the help of brexit as global instability is gonna ensure it stays nice and stable.

This has seemingly been their endgame for a while - I think Singham/ERG came out with a ridiculous and retarded plan for a deal around a year ago which was basically a joke.

There's no doubt that their little grubby fingers are deep into inappropriate money and conflicts of interest.

HOWEVER I think it's a little bit of a wild conspiracy theory to say that big money is trying to shape the political agenda here. There my be some tangential pressure, but the big money will be staying well away from any tactics like that. (It's far more effective, profitable, and realistic to control the economy of a smaller/less stable country in the middle of nowhere, attracting far less attention. The big boys do that for sure; but UK politics? Nah.)
 
If I were in labour's shoes I'd sit tight for the moment too. A VONC before 31.10 will always give Boris and his chums the opportunity to say what would have happened if he had gotten the backing etc. If they just continue to let him disintegrate he'll either have to ask for extension or break the law to fulfill his promise. When he does break the law to fulfill his promise he'll still need the HOC to mitigate the fallout of that, labour can ask for everything they want and still blame him for everything that goes wrong at that point.

And the longer he is PM the less appealing he will be at a general election.
 
MadMike said:
I understand there’s associated benefits with waiting, but there’s also disadvantages (the timetable for starters) which for me heavily outweigh them. I think you’re placing way too much stock in our politicians if you think they’ve got this all planned and sussed out and are merely waiting to inflict as much damage on the Tories as possible.

Whatever plan they have in mind (if they even have one) it could be upended by the independent actors in this, the Govt and the EU. The less time there is to react to unforeseen circumstances, the less likely it is that their plan works out.
Click to expand...

This is certainly possible :lol:

My strategy would be as follows though. Back channel for now, both with the EU and all opposition parties. Wait for BJ to mess up and not ask for an extension, topple him around 25th, ask for one predicated on a GE. It all seems fairly tight and simple, without much room for unforseeable problems.
 
Jeez...imagine being endorsed by Hatie Hopkins.
 
MadMike said:
But if there was an informal agreement on who to back, why not trigger the VONC now? What's the benefit of leaving it last minute?

.
Click to expand...

I think politically either forcing Johnson to back down and request the extension is seen to harm his credibility amongst brexiteers... Plus if farrage is true to his word (big if) this will guarantee brexit party run against the conservatives... And then essentially kick him when he's down and vote no confidence
Plus I think if he disobays the law this gives a reason to act and to be seen to be taking the moral high ground... And possibly throw in some legal action against Johnson as well
 
Just when I thought we’d already scraped the bottom of the barrel, out she pops
 
esmufc07 said:
Click to expand...

What is wrong with this woman? Seriously, what happened to her?

Reading through some of the replies to her tweet (which I'm sure she does), she gets hammered.

She must be suffering from some deep trauma because her behaviour in past years is not normal.
 
sammsky1 said:
What is wrong with this woman? Seriously, what happened to her?

She is suffering from some deep trauma because her behaviour in past years is not normal.
Click to expand...

There’s nothing really wrong with her, besides selling her soul to the devil.

She has quite a few times explained in interviews that she’s made a conscious choice to be over-the-top provocative and controversial because it generates more clicks and money than being a regular, run-of-the-mill column writer. She became Hatie Katie for money. A form of moral bankruptcy that is not all that uncommon.
 
MadMike said:
There’s nothing really wrong with her, besides selling her soul to the devil.

She has quite a few times explained in interviews that she’s made a conscious choice to be over-the-top provocative and controversial because it generates more clicks and money than being a regular, run-of-the-mill column writer. She became Hatie Katie for money. A form of moral bankruptcy that is not all that uncommon.
Click to expand...
Hmm. I don't think you can pretend being that for too long. Very quickly its becomes you. Wow. this is actually her.

Who knows, maybe she is very happy and mentally healthy being so?!
 
sammsky1 said:
Hmm. I don't think you can pretend being that for too long. Very quickly its becomes you. Wow. this is actually her.

Who knows, maybe she is very happy and mentally healthy being so?!
Click to expand...
There's no way she's happy. Look at her? She looks 60. She's a troll with a TV show. There's no difference between her and the fat ugly fecks who spend hours a day on their laptop, looking for people to abuse.
 
Sweet Square said:
Click to expand...


I agree absolutely with the premise of the Tories losing their identity, albeit that the reasons given in the article are a bit of a stretch ("family values" for instance); no mention whatsoever of supposed values that have been abandoned in favour of populist policies:
  • The party of supposed "low taxes" implementing one of the highest peacetime tax to GDP ratios the UK has ever seen; often via stealth taxes such as Adult Social Care levy, Insurance Premium Tax, Car Taxes etc
  • The party of business allowing business rates to spiral to an unmanageable level for lots of businesses
  • The party of jobs and personal freedoms eviscerating high street gambling by implementing the FOBT gambling limit of £2
  • The party of home ownership stifling the housing market via the amendment of Stamp Duty Taxation law
  • The party of market freedoms implementing leftist policies such as the energy price cap
  • The party of economic conservativeness stating a flurry of spending promises in all areas that are totally uncosted
  • The party of economic conservativeness still running a budget deficit despite consecutive manifesto's stating otherwise; let alone any policy looking to reduce overall debt
  • The party of greater personal freedoms implementing the Investigatory Powers Act 2016 (along others), limiting UK citizens' civil liberties
  • The party of greater personal freedoms implementing nanny state style "sin" taxes
  • The party of strong defence allowing atrocities such as the Khan Shaykhun chemical attack going essentially unpunished
  • The party of jobs increasing the minimum wage hugely (latest announcement that it should be 66% of medium earnings)
 
sammsky1 said:
What is wrong with this woman? Seriously, what happened to her?

Reading through some of the replies to her tweet (which I'm sure she does), she gets hammered.

She must be suffering from some deep trauma because her behaviour in past years is not normal.
Click to expand...

Jon Ronson did an interview her a few years back

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jul/18/katie-hopkins-jon-ronson-interview

She has severe epilepsy and could die at any time apparently, weirdly her husband works at a donkey sanctuary.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.