How old are you?
12 months since Mourinho was sacked and we've arguably gone backwards
- Thread starter Di Maria's angel
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
How old are you?
I really hate that term. I’d suggest Spurs are more likely to get top 4 this season with him as manager than us. They just leapfrogged us today. He’s a very good manager. The only reason it went down hill was because he didn’t get his way by getting signings in and was he wrong? We signed a CB he wanted for a world record fee 12 months later.
I really do think, like this OP, that they do it for attention or just to wind people up. Surely they all cant be this fecking thick?
We're definitely in a better place now than we were this time last year.
Players are improved, manager is now focusing on developing young players into top stars rather than wasted money on ageing players which benefit for rebuilding project in the next 2-4 years, manager now knows what's his best starting XI, manager added leadership in the squad & lot of promising academy players are given chances & taught the United Way. Why are you ignoring all of these? These are part of progress that can benefit the team in the next 2-4 years.
You can't expect an instant fix on the result! We are in rebuilding process and it'll take time. Progress is in there, under Jose Mourinho our squad lack of leadership character, Jose had no idea what's his best XI, wasted money on ageing players & no interest on developing young players & teaching the United Way.
Being a bit disingenuous here, firstly the life span of any modern day manager is three to five years. The responsibility of planning long term should be for the owners. If a manager comes into a club he should be thinking who’s going to help me now not in ten years.
Also correct me if I’m wrong but the only player United signed under Jose over the age of 25 for an actual fee was Matic.
We swapped an underperforming Mkhitariyan for one of the best players in the league, it didn’t work out but it’s disingenuous to make out it was some obviously horrendous decision.
Jose is pure trash? But Ole is the joint best manager we’ve had since fergie? Come on....like I know Mourinho needed to go because he was actively sabotaging but his first 18 months here were very good.
Look I like Ole and I really want this to work but the biggest difference between the jobs they’ve done respectively from him and Mourinho is that Ole is very well liked. That’s it. Ole says the right things most of the time whereas Mourinho says the wrong things most of the time. Oh and most of the players like ole.
The idea that our gameplay is significantly better, well, that’s just mental gymnastics really. In the Premier League this season I count FIVE performances that I would rate as more than a 6/10. The other twelve games are more and less the same as it was under Mourinho.
There’s no doubt the atmosphere around the club is a lot better and everyone seems to be pulling in the same direction but results and performances are more ore less the same. But let’s see, the form is slightly better , let’s hope for a similar run this year to the one we had this time last year.
We are going in the right direction. It's slow and it will be but we have something there to build on . We are seriously lacking in a creative player and hopefully Pogba will bring that in the next few weeks ..I've seen progress I think as fans we need to be patient and support the manager and give him a chance to build a team .
Ok I have to ask, who are the ageing players Jose wasted money on? Except for Matic.
Who are these young players we are developing? The only academy player playing regularly and well is Greenwood. Jose gave Mctominay his break, for sure he’s improved a lot since Ole came in but Jose trusted him in some big games so can imagine he was part of his long term plans. Perreira plays a lot and is consistently terrible. We’ve seen Chong often and again he’s been consistently terrible. Williams has been ok.
Mourinho had a first eleven for the most part, it was only towards the end where things became random.
Also what’s this leadership that’s been added to the squad?
We still look shambolic and lacking organisation in defending set pieces.
Nobody takes charge, we still start games half asleep (unless it’s against the top sides) again, nobody seems to be taking charge.
I think the incredible thing about Ole’s reign is the constant use of buzzwords . Culture, youth, future, United way... etc.
This is nothing like what it was like under Maoninho. If you think it is youre clueless.
It is reverse Moyes football. Under Moyes we did great away from home against the weaker teams. Terrible against the bigger teams. Now we are crap against the weak sides away and sometimes at home although doing well against the bigger teams.
Mate have you seen the state of Spurs squad v ours? Thats a squad that aside from their defence, should almost be challenging for a title. The rest of his signings were absolute shite and he failed to develop virtually any single player at United. He is the sole reason our squad is so weak because we've had to clear the shit he brought in, out.
It went down hill because after 2 and a half years of rubbish management and poor investment in the squad lead to capitulation of the team and Mourinho throwing his toys out of the pram.
The question is how did Ole last a full calendar year as Manchester United manager?
Unbelievable stuff.
Unbelievable stuff.
Make a thread on it
Their midfield consists of Eric Dier and Moussa Sissoko today. Their squad is alright but nothing to shout about. Eriksen is on his way out as well. There is significant work to be done there.
Mourinho was rightly sacked last year but the previous poster said he was the worse manager post Fergie which in my eye isn’t true.
Totally disagree. We've gotten rid of deadwood on high wages with more on the way out shortly, we've signed long-term prospects in problem areas and academy graduates like McTominay, Greenwood and Williams are showing they can handle playing at this level. We look like we're actually heading somewhere in the long-term now. A year ago we were sinking.
The football might not be great and we might be lacking on the pitch, but Ole is doing a very important job in pruning a squad that had gotten completely mangled, mis-matched and out of control under Moyes, LvG and Mourinho. Even if he isn't the guy to take us back to the top, he's leaving a better squad for the next guy.
The football might not be great and we might be lacking on the pitch, but Ole is doing a very important job in pruning a squad that had gotten completely mangled, mis-matched and out of control under Moyes, LvG and Mourinho. Even if he isn't the guy to take us back to the top, he's leaving a better squad for the next guy.
By ‘much better campaign’ you must mean top four.
I don’t believe that vintage pep gets this team to finish top four, not with this threadbare squad and with key injuries to Pogba and Martial for large parts of the season so far.
People can stamp their feet all they want, this is a major rebuild. We need another two excellent transfer windows before this side can really compete with the top sides in this league.
I’m comforted by the fact Ole seems to be a big game manager, the players turn up to the big games and you can tell they play for him and back him.
Of course I’m not ‘happy’ with finishing anywhere but first, luckily enough it’s more or less all I’ve really known growing up loving this team.
What that success has afforded me as a fan however is patience, I’m willing to stick with Ole and see if the positives grow and the negatives diminish after some quality additions.
Focussing solely on league position during a major rebuild and sacking the manager because of it (at this stage) is a nonsense.
There are positives, clear out well underway and Ole is building a team, he acknowledges that additions are needed which can only be a positive for us.
It takes patience and a thick skin to get through this stage of the rebuild, I believe we will be all the better for it in the long run.
All players Mourinho wanted to get rid of, we should get rid of.
Pogba, Martial, Shaw... Doubt he was a huge fan of Lingard, too.
Pogba, Martial, Shaw... Doubt he was a huge fan of Lingard, too.
I know. it was kinda the whole point? Take a step back, get rith of the overpaid dross and players not good enough. Although the last one takes some time.. Take a step back, and build it all from scratch. I honestly can understand if you dont see it! Not everyone is good at seeing things. But you cant feel it either?
Backwards nope but slow progress yes. Ole need to improve his tactics against lower table clubs
Did you expect to at this point in time? Compare the squad age and look at premiership games those different squads had. If you dont understand this, i dont know what to say to you.
It looks slow because we took a number of steps backwards to move forwards. I actually believe there's been substantial progress, but this wont come to fruition for a while yet.
Points wise maybe but not in the actual performance and how the team is being built. Given the choice, I would pick first half of 2019-20 instead of 2018-19 season.
For sure there are some major weakness, biggest of them all is our inconsistency and inability to beat non top 6 teams but when you see the performance against top 6, there is something to hope for. We clearly lack a creative mid (with Pogba's injury) and a good 10. In 4-2-3-1, #10 is very important and we have players like Lingard, Mata, Andreas competing for that position, no wonder we are so shit at unlocking defensive teams. If this can be addressed in Jan, then one more step in right direction.
There are positives,
Rashford is looking like very good player and a good goal scorer
Greenwood is a first team player scoring 7 goals already
James has started his ManUtd career well
McTominay looks much better player, has improved a lot since last December
Fred is looking like PL quality player and he is playing with so much confidence.
AWB has been near unbeatable
Few young players like Wiliams, Garner have got decent games.
There are obviously negatives too,
Defensively we are not solid enough, Lindelof and Maguire pair looks poor.
When the team defends deep, our players really lack any ideas and just goes for ball over the top of defense.
Inability to hold on to leads and also not able to make a come back wins
Biggest of them all, we are dropping way too many points at OT.
Will give him Jan window and will see how he can address weak positions.
For sure there are some major weakness, biggest of them all is our inconsistency and inability to beat non top 6 teams but when you see the performance against top 6, there is something to hope for. We clearly lack a creative mid (with Pogba's injury) and a good 10. In 4-2-3-1, #10 is very important and we have players like Lingard, Mata, Andreas competing for that position, no wonder we are so shit at unlocking defensive teams. If this can be addressed in Jan, then one more step in right direction.
There are positives,
Rashford is looking like very good player and a good goal scorer
Greenwood is a first team player scoring 7 goals already
James has started his ManUtd career well
McTominay looks much better player, has improved a lot since last December
Fred is looking like PL quality player and he is playing with so much confidence.
AWB has been near unbeatable
Few young players like Wiliams, Garner have got decent games.
There are obviously negatives too,
Defensively we are not solid enough, Lindelof and Maguire pair looks poor.
When the team defends deep, our players really lack any ideas and just goes for ball over the top of defense.
Inability to hold on to leads and also not able to make a come back wins
Biggest of them all, we are dropping way too many points at OT.
Will give him Jan window and will see how he can address weak positions.
Matic, Sanchez, Zlatan & even aimed to waste another money on Perisic. We wasted these players in both transfer fees, agent fees & wages, while players like Rashford & Martial have to sufferer because the manager’s aim is not for long term but short term fix just like your ridiculous expectation that clearly is not working under Mourinho which something the manager Ole is trying to change now.
Greenwood, Garner, McTominay, James, Williams, Rashford, Pereira and etc. It’s not about giving youth chances only! The point I’m mentioning developing young players is that Ole is now aiming to develop players, improve them & willing to trust them regularly not just in specific match so they can be developed into top stars for the sake of the club in 3-5 years for long term. The result will take time, it’s not just 6 months period! That’s why it’s called long term plan or rebuilding the squad not short term!
Unlike Mourinho who prefers to spend money instead of developing his young players because he prefers short term fix, if he doesn’t get what he wants for that short term fix then he will moan and even throwing his young players into a mess for example playing McTominay as a centre back.
Are you serious? Under Mourinho we got no clue who the feck will be our captain in the future, never mind captain the manager didn’t know what’s his best XI or even back four. Now, there are ideal candidates, players like Maguire, McTominay or even Rashford can be ideal to be captain whether for present or future.
There are progress, it will take time to achieve it fully.
I strongly disagree with the OP. We’ve had progress. People seem to forget how boring it was watching us under Mourinho. Now we got alot of pace and bits of really good play. A couple more signings and we are there i reckon. The signs are there, and I don’t think bringing a new manager will
encourage further progress. if that’s what the OP is suggesting. That is what you should consider right now.
encourage further progress. if that’s what the OP is suggesting. That is what you should consider right now.
We are absolutely going in the right direction. Almost all the games this year has been good to watch and some of the goals we've scored has been fantastic. Just need a creative player to unlock defense against teams that defend deep.
It’s similar to Klopp first time came to Liverpool. They could get results against big team but struggled against the lesser teams.
We haven’t gone backwards but not gone forwards either. Results wise we are still the exact same United we’ve been post Fergie. Too many false dawns and not enough consistency. It’s nice putting on a show against the top 6 but it means absolutely nothing when you can’t pick up wins against Palace, Southampton, Newcastle, West Ham, Bournemouth, Sheffield, Villa and now Everton. There is absolutely no excuse for us not to be in the top 4 currently, we are letting the standard at this club slip further and further.
We should have told Mourinho that Utd fans weren't that bothered about winning.... though i don't think he would have agreed.
I mentioned Matic who I agree was a poor short sighted signing, but Sanchez was a swap for Mkhitaryian at a time when Sanchez was one of the best three players in the league. It was an opportunity to take a risk on, in the same way Fergie signed Van Persie. Questioning Zlatans signing considering how well he did is bizarre. We had two young centre/inside forwards at the club who were almost definitely not ready to lead the line and Zlatan was brought in to bridge the gap until they stepped up or a younger striker came in and that is exactly what happened when 24 year old Romelu Lukaku was signed and scored 27 goals in his first season. Now you can criticise Lukaku for his overall style of playing not befitting of a United player but you mention Martial and I see a centre forward who can sometimes be arsed (City) and sometimes not (Everton). He doesn't get in the box enough. He has massive amounts of improving to do if he's going to be our long term centre forward.
We're literally having problems this season BECAUSE of our refusal to add more experience and consistency to our forward line. You're talking as if this method is working, do you see city or Liverpool or any top club putting all their eggs in the basket of young attackers? Fergie never did it, why is this all of a sudden supposed to be the thing to do? it's not the United way and never has been. Yorke, Cole, van Persie, Van Nistelrooy, Saha, Berbatov, Sheringham, this list is fecking endless, none of these players were under 25 when we signed them. You have to have a mix, simple.
Garner? He's played like two games and we still never see him in the league despite the continued shiteness of Lingard and Perreira. Williams only got a look in because Shaw and Young got injured. Perreira is 24 next month and is rubbish, it doesnt matter how many times Ole picks him and trusts him he's still going to be rubbish next week, next month, next year and in four years time.
Funny you mention the centre back thing and short term fixes. Mourinho LITERALLY wanted to sign the centre back Ole eventually signed but was told no. Are you suggesting Mourinho trying to sign Maguire was a short term fix? You wont catch me defending Mourinhos last few months here but lets not act as if he was actively holding young players back. He trusted Rashford, Martial, Lukaku plenty, McTominay played against Liverpool. There are no younger players regularly playing in this United team except for Greenwood who are playing now who weren't under Jose. The only difference now is we've got rid of a load of players and are now forced to play these guys every minute of every game.
That stuff about captain is hilarious and doesnt even make any sense. Two of the players you mentioned played regularly under Mourinho and the other one is a player Mourinho LITERALLY tried to sign and wasnt allowed to sign. There's plenty of valid criticisms that could be made of Jose when he was here there's no need to re-write history or spin things to add more.
We were 11 points off fourth when he was sacked. Now we are only 4 points off. We are ranked 6th in goals scored and 6th in fewest goals conceded. When Mouringo was sacked we were ranked 6th in goals scored too, but in terms of goals conceded we were a shocking 17th - only three teams had conceded more.
Yes, we struggle to get clean sheets but our defensive record has been much better compared to last season.
By this point last season pretty much everyone had given up hope of finishing fourth. Now we are in touching distance and it seems that some are hoping we drop points so they can pine about Mourinho and try to pretend that he wasnt doing so badly. 11 points off fourth. 11.
Our issue now is on the attacking side of things which isnt surprising given we lost/sold Fellaini, Herrera, Sanchez and Lukaku and only brought in James. We need to invest in the coming window.
Not even half way through the season and Rashford has already equalled his best season at United in terms of goals but Ole hasn't helped to improve any of the players...
I’d disagree we’ve gone backwards. I see big improvements in our transfer dealings, development of the younger players and commitment levels of the players. Yes it’s not perfect but we’ve a very young squad and it will take time. Remains to be seen if Ole and the coaching staff are up to the task.
The point is Jose went for short term type of signings in his last three summer transfer windows which clearly had no positive to catch City & Liverpool, while Ole is going for long term plan which is rebuilding the squad by improving & developing his players which what he is doing in process and have shown the sign of positive in our squad. There is no such a thing called instant outcome in "long term plan".
Jose's aim was for short term fix and that's why he went on those proven or ageing players like Zlatan, Sanchez, Matic and etc. We had 2 young talented forwards at that time that the manager should have focus on developing them but he didn't, instead he chose to sign more proven players for short term fix.
And tell me, what's the positive of signing Matic, Zlatan, Sanchez & even aimed to get Perisic if only have potential good for 1 season? The answer is that it has no positive but waste of money on transfer, wages & agent fees, destroying our wages structure, young players are not well developed.
Ole on the other hand knows that these players are talented and he wants to improve them, have faith in them & develop them into top star because he thinks what United needs is not a short term fix but rebuilding project which will take time and he had said it before last season.
You call it hilarious but I'm questioning why it is so hard to get it through you. Did you believe that both Rashford & McTominay are candidate to be captain under Mourinho? No one feckin say it, everyone were saying Herrera, Young, Valencia, Pogba & DDG as candidate but questionable because the squad had no future captain.
Ole's aim is to rebuild the squad by improve & develop his players, improving & developing are not just about football skills but also mentality & their character. What you can't accept is that Ole somehow had improved his players and working on developing them in both skills & character to be Manchester United players which is why now we see lot of our players are improving and some of our players have shown that they are ideal candidate to be United's captain. It's part of progress that could be massive results in the next 2-5 years for long term. While Jose's idea was proven nothing as progress but left us with waste of money & deadwood.
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This kind of language really needs to stop. Go Google some synonyms and expand your vocabulary instead of being an affront to human dignity.
You’re just repeating stuff now, you completely ignored the point I made about how we signed experienced attackers under Fergie. Do you remember under Fergie when we had Chicharito and Welbeck but he went and signed Van Persie. I guess Fergie was destroying the future of the club too. Same when we had Ole and signed Sheringham, guess that too was sacrificing the clubs future.
You’re playing mental gymnastics and throwing in a load of buzzwords. Never in the history of a top club have they relied completely on young players. You’re literally seeing the detriment of this right in front of your eyes with this current United team but choosing to ignore it and live in a buzzword fantasy.
Under Mourinho we also signed Baily, Lindelof, Lukaku, Fred, all under 25 but I’m sure this will be ignored.
And you mention deadwood but I saw Mata and Phil Jones get new contracts this summer with Mourinho nowhere to be seen. But whatever, agenda gonna agenda. Culture, future, develop, improve, rebuild, etc etc .
Excellent post. No manager without such a beloved history as a player would get the kind of pass and hypocrisy and delusion we see now.
Thing is I actually agree with the crux of the discussion, I am 100% in agreement that Solskjaer is better for United right now than Mourinho would be but I dunno why there has to be this mass scale delusion and rewriting of history to make emphasise that point.
You are missing the point again and this is why I must repeat this again, the plan is rebuilding process. The reason why it's more ideal than short term plan is because our squad was and are miles behind City & Liverpool. We ain't catch City or Liverpool with Mourinho idea of going for short term, it will do nothing to catch them but damaging the club which clearly proven.
On the other hand under Sir Alex our aim was to win the league not rebuild the squad because we already had the squad that capable to win the league, that's why RVP was bought for the to improve the squad for winning the league back again from City! It's also hilarious to even use Chicharito & Welbeck to back your argument, they are nowhere near as talented as Rashford & Martial.
Me? It's you who can't see what happened? We tried the Mourinho way and it didn't work, and you expect us to keep doing the Mourinho way. Now both the club and Ole are trying something different which is rebuild the squad for long term project by improving & developing players into top class players. Will we win the league in 3 years or more with this plan? Who knows but the club & manager are trying something different and so far there are sign of progress & improvement in the squad.
Why are you ignoring what happened to those players that Jose signed?
Jose signed Bailly & Lindelof and yet he still not happy with them and still wanted more centre back. He had three summer transfer window and what he did is instead of trying to use the money to fix the defense, he was ignoring the talent that we got up front like Rashford & Martial and wasted the money on the likes Lukaku, Sanchez, Zlatan and etc. Do you see why I called it as waste of money?
Let's not ignore that Fred was considered flop under Jose's management, there is a possibility if Mourinho would have stayed this summer, he would want a new midfielder just like how he wanted a new centre back after signed two in previous windows.
Tell me what's my agenda? All I'm doing is that trying to tell you that there is sign of progress in the squad but your agenda blind your eyes that you can't see the progress that we have and ignoring them.
Let's not ignore that neither Jones & Mata are even starting XI players. I don't know how many times until this get through your head but I shall say it again, it'll take time. We can't fix everything in one summer transfer window and that's why those two are still in the club.
That's a lot of nonsense. Fred, first and foremost was never used by Ole until everyone else was injured. Per the summer reports the plan was to get a midfielder and get rid of Fred. Early on Pereira was getting look after look in front of him. Nothing long term or genius there. Dumb luck that Fred becoming used to the pace of the league coincides with 'the long term p*sstake' pronounced process.
Speaking of long term, we wanted to sign Mandzukic. Yeah. And that's before we even start on Gomes being gone, Mata and Jesse getting games instead. Everything you're saying is one sided delusion.