I appreciate that but we shouldn't blindly place our sports favourites on pedestal. They can be allowed to have flaws as much as we can admit that they could be arseholes in real-life, they're only humans. Being gifted in one field doesn't mean they are perfect and their every utterance or act needs worshipping.
Kobe Bryant - What’s his legacy?
- Thread starter Eboue
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Every death is sad and shocking but I accept that you personally are not distraught, I'm not upset though that anyone may be, it was just how you framed your point that I might be upset that you and others could be. All settled now?
Kobe legacy for me. Don’t really care about
Basketball or any US sport. Was aware that Kobe was very very popular and like the basketball equivalent of Ronaldo for success and marketing. But play me a recording with him talking and I wouldn’t have a clue who it was.
Since he died I’ve listened to a few of his interviews . And it’s like a new discovery for me because didn’t know much about him. I’ve found his very articulate, very engaging, some very inspiring things. Interesting upbringing and AC Milan supporter, highly intelligent speaks 5 languages (I think)
1) He never got into the clubbing and partying, while the grown men in his team were clubbing he’d concentrate on his craft. That mentality lasted even when clubs became legal for him.
2) As soon as he became pro he was already thinking “what am I going to do after this “
3) Structured lifestyle. Woke up 4am. Gym. Drop kids off, practice, pick kids up.
4) learns from others and teaches to others
So while his basketball achievements mean nothing to me as it’s a game I don’t relate to so can’t put into perspective. I’ve found there’s a lot about his mindset and way of talking that I like.
Basketball or any US sport. Was aware that Kobe was very very popular and like the basketball equivalent of Ronaldo for success and marketing. But play me a recording with him talking and I wouldn’t have a clue who it was.
Since he died I’ve listened to a few of his interviews . And it’s like a new discovery for me because didn’t know much about him. I’ve found his very articulate, very engaging, some very inspiring things. Interesting upbringing and AC Milan supporter, highly intelligent speaks 5 languages (I think)
1) He never got into the clubbing and partying, while the grown men in his team were clubbing he’d concentrate on his craft. That mentality lasted even when clubs became legal for him.
2) As soon as he became pro he was already thinking “what am I going to do after this “
3) Structured lifestyle. Woke up 4am. Gym. Drop kids off, practice, pick kids up.
4) learns from others and teaches to others
So while his basketball achievements mean nothing to me as it’s a game I don’t relate to so can’t put into perspective. I’ve found there’s a lot about his mindset and way of talking that I like.
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I agree. One has to be delusional to not take such accusations seriously.
Only skimmed the thread, most of the discussion seems to be around the rape allegation vs him as a role model vs what is justifiable to question peoples legacy.
My question would be when you have a public figure who has undoubtedly done massive amounts of good, how do you measure the weight of the persons legacy vs their failings and any reprehensible acts they may also have done.
ie if somebody cured cancer and let the patent out for free, but they also killed someone, which takes precedent for the legacy? or do you weight it accordingly.
My question would be when you have a public figure who has undoubtedly done massive amounts of good, how do you measure the weight of the persons legacy vs their failings and any reprehensible acts they may also have done.
ie if somebody cured cancer and let the patent out for free, but they also killed someone, which takes precedent for the legacy? or do you weight it accordingly.
This thread is unreal 
Cool false accusations there. I said he was my favorite player, not my idol. I also concluded that I just don't know what exactly happened, but I made specific counter points to an argument earlier. I called out anyone who were convinced that he was a rapist and posting as if he was guilty. That's not the same as having a belief about what happened, let alone me mocking people for such.
Yes, a seven-paged (and counting) thread that's in a publicly available section of a popular online forum equates to being swept under the rug. It's not a difficult thing to grasp. We have a thread to express grief, talk about the tragedy and offer condolences. We have another thread to talk about his legacy and controversies. It's not any different from a number of other topics on here where there are dedicated threads, yet no one was complaining about those being "oppressive" as some other posts have said.
A more interesting question to me: had this accusation been made in 2018-2020, would he have been sacked from his team and all of his sponsor deals cancelled before stepping a foot in a courtroom?
It's not an accusation. I'm saying that it is how it comes across to me.
I know nothing about basketball. I've heard of a few players (including Kobe Bryant) of course.
Where does he rank all time? Top 5? Top 10?
Where does he rank all time? Top 5? Top 10?
Probably not the right thread. But all murders aren’t judged equally, hence why prison sentences vary for murder convictions because the judge considers various factors. That’s for the most serious crime possible in law.
Whether people think it or not accept it or not, the same applies to rape. Hence why two people convicted of rape in the same city by the same judge could receive different sentences depending on multiple things.
So if someone was a great guy and killed someone I’d want to know the facts.
Well you misinterpreted me and wrote it as if it was a true fact about what I said. And of all the posters you could have quoted, you decided to pick on mine for some reason even though I was pretty clear with my thoughts.
Second behind Michael Jordan in my opinion. I'm also a Lakers fan so take that into consideration. A lot of fans would classify LeBron James as second best or even the GOAT depending on who you ask.
Most fans won't have him in their top-5, as great as he was. Top-10, yes he would make it in a lot of lists.
Best shooting guard after Michael Jordan and I think most people would put him in their top 10.
So with this thinking, how do you feel about the Munich Air Disaster?
He is right though.
Ever since he was promoted his every post is either failed attempt at sarcasm, criticising other posters because they have their opinion, pretending he is know it all poster, you would think he is here for 20 years seeing the style of his posting. I can even understand older posters here who can't be bothered to discuss with new posters here some stuff, but literally every one of bans 20+k posts here is made of one or two sentence either criticising someone, trying to be funny, etc..
One of the worst posters of the last decade easily. And a returnee.
Top 10ish seems right. MJ, Lebron and Kareem tend to lock out the top, and from then on Kobe's in the debate with a bunch of other guys, but I think in most lists he would drop to the end of that top 10.
It looks like his name has caught up with him.
Who’s a comparable footballer to compare him to in terms of historical ranking?
Most fans are stupid then. He is easily top 5, maybe even 3.
He lasted too long anyway.
Magic is also a shoe in for top-5 as is Wilt. Then you have the next batch of Russell, Bird, Shaq, Kobe, etc.
Who would you replace in the above list though. Jordan and LeBron are right up there. Magic is the Greatest Laker ever and someone who transformed the game. Possibly a case for Wilt given he's from the black and white era but can't really dispute with his numbers. But generally those along with Kareem would rank higher.
It would depend on the age of the fan.. if they have Kareem and Wilt in there then he would drop down a bit. But I think most fans who have not watched those two play, would probably put him after Jordan, maybe Magic. LBJ is below him sorry
Magic considers Kobe the greatest Laker of all time so that's got to be worth mentioning. Shaq was too limited to be in a top 5 if you ask me. He offered nothing around the perimeter and couldn't shoot free throws to save his life. I can't comment on the others since I wasn't alive to see them play, but I wouldn't take any problem if others put them ahead of Kobe. There are good cases to be made for a number of players to take up #2–5.
This.
I called him out on it last week because his last account got banned for trying to be sarcastic in every post. I tried to help him out because I do not like to see people banned, but he just does not listen.
Hilarious thing is he doesn't admit Mali Zeus account is him when it is very obvious from his posts.
Well he's definitely being humble and classy over there and especially after what happened. They're pretty close so it's fine to pick either.
Ah I remember that guy. I don't think he's that bad, but also consider that I barely remember anything he's posted.
Yeah obviously he has a better case if you only include modern players.
Said it before his death too.
https://www.businessinsider.com/kobe-bryant-greatest-laker-jersey-retirement-magic-johnson-2017-12
West, Shaq and Johnson all said he was the greatest Laker of all-time before he died, and I'd agree with that but like you say it's close. Greatest Laker definitely doesn't mean better player than Magic either imo.
Still watching clips of him. Feck sake
Yeah I would have all of Russell, Wilt and Kareem ahead of him as centers and he would agree as well. After that it's a close one between Shaq and Hakeem and I'll take Shaq because for all limitation on defense, offensively he was unguardable and the most dominant force seen in modern era. He'd make my top-10 but definitely not top-5.
When comparing to older generations of legends, do you take into consideration the level of talent these players had to compete with? What was the average competition like when Wilt and Magic were playing?
I'm aware and its understandable legends showing respect to each other. He's not gonna name himself and it's between those two for the title of the greatest Laker possibly along with The Logo. For me Magic's impact both on the franchise and the sport is greater.
I don’t think that’s true, I’m not sure how you can have such an insight into their motivations. Certainly I don’t like seeing someone who committed sexual assault (and I accept other people don’t believe he did) being talked about in such glowing terms, precisely for the reason that it is a feck you to sexual assault victims
I mean yeah? He said he could understand why she felt she hadn’t consented. That’s pretty damning. It’s about as close as you can go without saying yeah I raped her.
I say this with the caveat that I think you’re a really good poster, and a fair staff member, but you said this earlier in the thread obviously aimed at @connor
That’s pretty patronising.
Fair point. That's essentially why I place MJ as undisputed #1 among many other reasons of course. I'm just not old enough to have a real perception of the effects Magic had on the sport.