Kobe Bryant - What’s his legacy?

villain said:
I'm personally at a true loss for words, and a conflict in emotions.

Kobe was my favourite sports star, of all time - he epitomised exactly what an athlete should be, in my mind - especially at such a young age, he was woven into my childhood.
At the same time, he is a true representation of rape culture - a man with power who was able to silence the victim of said abuse (whether directly, intentionally, or unknowingly - none of us will ever know) and get away with his actions, with no punishment.

In his death, it reinforces how we don't have a way to discuss someone like him - both the good and the bad, he's either a hero or a villain, and depending on which side of the line you believe him to fall on, you will discuss either the good or the bad.
Humans are much more complex than that, we are not supposed to be static.

It's not for us (as fans of Kobe) to try and silence the victim, or those who support the victim - it isn't for us to decide how much hurt they feel even in his death, it isn't for us to decide when people can discuss his rape. And it certainly isn't for us to water it down, it was rape.
Your heroes can be seen in a different light by others, especially when they've done horrible things, and there wouldn't be a need to say 'now's not the time to talk about that' if whatever the 'that' is about, didn't actually occur. It's not unfair, and it is valid to hear survivors stories at all times - we can't decide when harm should be forgiven.

I truly believe that he went on to be a better man than the one who committed the act in the first place. In the same way I believe criminals can be redeemed & rehabilitated.
Kobe did a lot of great work for collegiate basketball, women's basketball, youth basketball - and of course the NBA. His family appeared to love him, especially Gigi - she looked at him like nobody else mattered in the world - he mattered a lot to his friends, his community, his family & his friends.

But it's not up to me or the fans to grant him redemption, or forgiveness. Nobody, but the victim, can decide that.
& if he's never forgiven, then that's just it - and that's okay too.

That's the thing, if you hurt someone you can't go and erase it, or pretend it didn't happen, or try to justify it - but being mad that people are discussing his actions, or being mad that people haven't forgiven him because you personally love him so much, is you being mad that the victims existence makes you uncomfortable, and deflects from your personal admiration for the man.

It's not an impossible situation to put yourself in, and it's something i've grappled with since his passing. It doesn't take away from my grief, it doesn't take away from his accomplishments or his importance in history. He isn't just 'a rapist', in the same way he isn't just 'a basketball player' - that's obtuse.

I don't believe there is a balanced way to discuss exactly who he is, because of who he is.
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Brilliant post.
 
Raoul said:
Highly unlikely given that the civil case payment agreement happened well after the criminal case was dismissed. The criminal case was dismissed in Sep 04 and the ciivil case was initiated in Aug 04, which suggests the accusers's legal team felt it would be more beneficial to go after money than a guilty verdict.
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The deal was obviously struck much earlier. Bryant agreed to apologise and not contest the civil case (even if an exact $ amount wasn't agreed) in return for her dropping cooperation with the prosecution.
 
Cascarino said:
"I apologise for my behaviour that night"
"I understand why she thinks I raped her"

Yeah, I interpret that as an admission of guilt.
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Of course it is. He was just sorry he got caught.
 
bpet15 said:
Of all the shit posts you have made in this thread, this is by far the most disingenuous. You even put it in fecking quotes.
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Maybe because he was quoting Bryant's statement? Just a thought.

Not sure how that is disingeneous. He admitted it in writing to make the criminal case go away.
 
Scrumpet said:
At a time like this it's really not on to come into this thread and bring up his basketball career.
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Agreed. We should have another thread for that.
 
For those who’ve read Bryant’s statement to the police and were able to follow the case back then, did Shaq ever talk about the stuff Bryant said about him?
 
adexkola said:
:lol:

Click here to learn new trick used by criminal to evade conviction...
Prosecutors HATE him!!!
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:lol:

It's amazing how some of the people in here think the criminal justice system works.

Almost as amazing as their telepathic abilities to see events from 17 years ago.
 
HTG said:
Do you have a link to the lyrics? I’m not going to listen to it, I respect myself too much for that.
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Here's some of it.

Okay, Kobe, Tell me how my ass taste
Okay, Everybody, Kobe Tell me how my ass taste
I'm a horse, Kobe ratted me out
That's why I'm getting divorced
He said Shaq gave a bitch a mil
I don't do that cause my name Shaquille
I love em, I don't leave em' I got a vasectomy
Now I can't breed them
Kobe How my ass taste
Everybody, Kobe how my ass taste
Yeah, you can't do without me Kobe
You can't do without me (repeat 2 times)
Everybody, Kobe, Tell how my ass taste (Collective) Yeah
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Worthy of 5 mics if you ask me.
 
Not searching for the audio of that song might have been the best decision I’ve ever made.
 
adexkola said:
:lol:

Click here to learn new trick used by criminal to evade conviction...
Prosecutors HATE him!!!
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That was exactly the deal. He agreed to apologise and say the victim was right, just short of him actually saying the words "I'm a rapist", a statement obviously agreed on between both sides lawyers including getting her to sign an agreement that it couldn't be used against him to bump the out of court settlement even further.
 
Abizzz said:
:lol:

It's amazing how some of the people in here think the criminal justice system works.

Almost as amazing as their telepathic abilities to see events from 17 years ago.
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It is more amazing that people want to give him a free pass on a rape because he was good at basketball. Celebrity is weird particularly in the US. OJ and Michael Jackson were actually acquitted FFS. Interesting to see if Weinstein gets off.
 
Wibble said:
It is more amazing that people want to give him a free pass on a rape because he was good at basketball. Celebrity is weird particularly in the US. OJ and Michael Jackson were actually acquitted FFS. Interesting to see if Weinstein gets off.
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You don't understand that some people just think he's innocent?

Irrespective of anything he's done in his profession.

But no. You're so superior anyone not of your opinion could only be of a different opinion for ridiculous reasons.
 
Abizzz said:
You don't understand that some people just think he's innocent?

Irrespective of anything he's done in his profession.

But no. You're so superior anyone not of your opinion could only be of a different opinion for ridiculous reasons.
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I don't think you would have thought anything or even known about him. His celebrity is colouring opinion to the point fans don't even want to think about his past much less acknowledge that he was obviously guilty.

He can be both what you like about him and what you don't like simultaneously.
 
Wibble said:
I don't think you would have thought anything or even known about him. His celebrity is colouring opinion to the point fans don't even want to think about his past much less acknowledge that he was obviously guilty.

He can be both what you like about him and what you don't like simultaneously.
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But he wasn't, that's just your opinion. You're entitled to that opinion but so is everyone else to theirs. Why didn't you and all the others so adamant (especially those journalists now flooding the media who kept quiet for so long despite being so certain) fight for justice while there was justice to be had? Why wait until its too late?
 
Wibble said:
I don't think you would have thought anything or even known about him. His celebrity is colouring opinion to the point fans don't even want to think about his past much less acknowledge that he was obviously guilty.

He can be both what you like about him and what you don't like simultaneously.
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Per definition, anyone who entered this thread wants to discuss or at least have his say about his past.

Also, every podcast, in memoriam or tribute I've seen so far has mentioned the sexual assault allegations. It's certainly not swept under the rug by the media, neither should it be.
 
bpet15 said:
Of all the shit posts you have made in this thread, this is by far the most disingenuous. You even put it in fecking quotes.
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It's what he said you dolt.

" After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter. "

I'll tag in @RobinLFC because he didn't fully grasp this the other day. This is Kobe saying that he understands why the victim felt she was raped. He didn't use the word rape, he just described what rape is and for some reason that's confused people.
 
Cascarino said:
It's what he said you dolt.

" After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter. "

I'll tag in @RobinLFC because he didn't fully grasp this the other day. This is Kobe saying that he understands why the victim felt she was raped. He didn't use the word rape, he just described what rape is and for some reason that's confused people.
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Then why did you make it look like he did?

There's a difference between what you can or want to take away from the statement, the actual facts of that night depending on how you interpret it, and its legal implications i.e. the legal reality, and that's what I took offense with yesterday. Legally speaking it's most definitely not an admission of guilt.

For what it's worth, I'm of the same opinion as @Sarni in that I think it started off consensual and became non-consensual throughout the act - in any case he was in the wrong that night, but the good he has done since and his inspiration/influence on humanity has far outshone the bad he did that night in Colorado. If you think differently and are mad that he never got punished, that's fine too. Kobe Bryant was far more than just "someone who was good at hoops" as some people like to say in this thread.

By the way, tagging someone in an edit doesn't get them a notification.
 
RobinLFC said:
Then why did you make it look like he did?

There's a difference between what you can or want to take away from the statement, the actual facts of that night depending on how you interpret it, and its legal implications i.e. the legal reality, and that's what I took offense with yesterday. Legally speaking it's most definitely not an admission of guilt.

For what it's worth, I'm of the same opinion as @Sarni in that I think it started off consensual and became non-consensual throughout the act - in any case he was in the wrong that night, but the good he has done since and his inspiration/influence on humanity has far outshone the bad he did that night in Colorado. If you think differently and are mad that he never got punished, that's fine too. Kobe Bryant was far more than just "someone who was good at hoops" as some people like to say in this thread.

By the way, tagging someone in an edit doesn't get them a notification.
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Fair enough on the legality part.

If people want to weigh up what he did and work out if he comes out on top then I don't care. I don't think it works like that anyway, the good doesn't wash out the bad and vice versa. I'm not in this thread because I think people shouldn't mourn him or reflect on what he gave them.
 
Cascarino said:
Fair enough on the legality part.

If people want to weigh up what he did and work out if he comes out on top then I don't care. I don't think it works like that anyway, the good doesn't wash out the bad and vice versa. I'm not in this thread because I think people shouldn't mourn him or reflect on what he gave them.
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It's unfair . You can't be held responsible for your mistakes forever, people can redeem themselves and it doesn't cancel out all the good they may do after that mistake.
 
Sarni said:
It's unfair . You can't be held responsible for your mistakes forever, people can redeem themselves and it doesn't cancel out all the good they may do after that mistake.
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Raping someone is not a simple mistake, it’s one of the most horrible things you could possibly inflict upon another person. There is no redeeming for something like that.
 
HTG said:
Raping someone is not a simple mistake, it’s one of the most horrible things you could possibly inflict upon another person. There is no redeeming for something like that.
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So I take it you're in favour of the death penalty? No point in trying to rehabilitate rapists in prison.
 
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