SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

17 Van der Gouw said:
It wasn't one bat that somebody ate. It was meat from a 'wet market' - where wild animals are kept in disgusting conditions in cages stacked on top of each other.

The bats had been crammed into a cage with other animal cages stacked on top of them, they were then covered in faeces, blood and various other fluids from other animals. This caused a perfect storm for the virus to breed.

Check out this youtube video for a better explanation. Beware: Those 'wet markets' are fecking disgusting.
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But hasn't it always been like this? Ive been to China several times and seen these markets. Its been like that for a long time.
 
Dans said:
I think cover up is a bit strong, but if I am right, I suppose it's not far wrong actually. It just seems wholly unlikely that the death rate here is so minimal compared to anywhere else. My feeling is that Germany only took this seriously yesterday.
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The reason the death rate is low and you have a lot of cases is you have done 135k testing in the last two weeks plus more in total. Spain has done 30k in total a few days ago, France 6.6k tested on 5th of March and probably 20-25k before the lockdown recently. To get these high test figures Germany will have tested many with mild symptoms that in other countries are just told to self isolate. Had you done about 30k in total, you might be 1500 cases. The huge amount of testing points to a currently good situation and the high cases and deaths rates in Spain from just 30k, a very bad one.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Well unlike Iran and NKorea being the only rogue nations chasing after nuclear weapons, China aren't the only ones with these wet markets, making it much harder to "exert pressure" on them and not the rest of the world. The bat soup video, for example, was filmed in some minor country that no one even remembers in SE asia.
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I would say that this pressure has to be exerted on any country that lets them exist, but obviously China have the most responsibility because their wet markets are generally on a whole different scale, and they have so many of them. And it's the scale that really drives up the risk.
 
sammsky1 said:
But hasn't it always been like this? Ive been to China several times and seen these markets. Its been like that for a long time.
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It has been relatively recently, as industry maybe in the last 30-40 years. And wet markets gave us also the SARS (with H5N1 and H7N2 also originating in China, both can have a catastrophic end of civilization consequences). China needs to ban forver wet markets (they have suspended them) and to heavily regulate their food industry.
 
I have no problem with people solely pinning the blame on the Chinese government, Covid19 is quite directly their fault. And government officials trying to put out half baked conspiracy theories does them absolutely no favours. Trump is right about that.

It would be one thing if this hadn't happened before, but it did and they willingly ignored the risks of it happening again.
 
sammsky1 said:
But hasn't it always been like this? Ive been to China several times and seen these markets. Its been like that for a long time.
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Yes, and this isn't the first time this has happened. SARS started in China, as a precaution they then shut down the wet markets. Then as soon as SARS cleared, the reopened them. Two superviruses in 20 years is an appalling record.

I've said this before - we must avoid xenophobia whilst discussing China, I've been there and admired parts of their culture greatly - but there is no food hygeine where these markets are concerned, the animals are kept inhumanely and slaughtered in filthy conditions. This has to change, and wild wet markets have to stop.
 
redshaw said:
The reason the death rate is low and you have a lot of cases is you have done 135k testing in the last two weeks plus more in total. Spain has done 30k in total a few days ago, France 6.6k tested on 5th of March and probably 20-25k before the lockdown recently. To get these high test figures Germany will have tested many with mild symptoms that in other countries are just told to self isolate. Had you done about 30k in total, you might be 1500 cases. The huge amount of testing points to a currently good situation and the high cases and deaths rates in Spain from just 30k, a very bad one.
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Not really, if I'm not mistaken the last update saw Germany register more new death than the amount of serious/critical cases they had. There is something weird with their figures.
 
17 Van der Gouw said:
Yes, and this isn't the first time this has happened. SARS started in China, as a precaution they then shut down the wet markets. Then as soon as SARS cleared, the reopened them. Two superviruses in 20 years is an appalling record.

I've said this before - we must avoid xenophobia whilst discussing China, I've been there and admired parts of their culture greatly - but there is no food hygeine where these markets are concerned, the animals are kept inhumanely and slaughtered in filthy conditions. This has to change, and wild wet markets have to stop.
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I don't disagree at all, but then I think 2 in 20 years is very very low. Surely it should happen very regularly?

PS: these types of markets exist all over Asia and Africa.
 
JPRouve said:
Not really, if I'm not mistaken the last update saw Germany register more new death than the amount of serious/critical cases they had. There is something weird with their figures.
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My ex-boss (Munich) is insisting that they are not counting deaths of people who have other diseases. Like if you have cancer, and you die, they don't count it as from coronavirus (like Italy does) in order to not spread the panic. I think it is the only viable theory, they are having more deaths than critical conditions, significantly less deaths than countries with similar number of infected people and so on.
 
sammsky1 said:
Don't want to get all 'conspiracy' on this, especially as I am prone to enjoy conspiracy theories ....

But the Chinese have been eating bats for who knows how long. ditto other animals non Chinese people might find strange and their wet markets have had these conditions for ages. What was so special about this specific bat that one person apparently ate, that turned into this global panic?

PS: Chinese can eat what they like and do as they like, in their country. Their cultural norms and traditions are just as valid as anyone else.
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Where are you getting that someone eating a bat caused this outbreak? A whatsapp group?
 
Montenegro confirms the first two cases. Every country in Europe has officially diagnosed cases now.
 
Revan said:
My ex-boss (Munich) is insisting that they are not counting deaths of people who have other diseases. Like if you have cancer, and you die, they don't count it as from coronavirus (like Italy does) in order to not spread the panic. I think it is the only viable theory, they are having more deaths than critical conditions, significantly less deaths than countries with similar number of infected people and so on.
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I also think that they are not actually counting critical people the same way. In France my understanding is that anyone given a reanimation or ICU bed is considered serious/critical.
 
Revan said:
My ex-boss (Munich) is insisting that they are not counting deaths of people who have other diseases. Like if you have cancer, and you die, they don't count it as from coronavirus (like Italy does) in order to not spread the panic. I think it is the only viable theory, they are having more deaths than critical conditions, significantly less deaths than countries with similar number of infected people and so on.
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That's an interesting take. It makes sense, too.
 
Revan said:
My ex-boss (Munich) is insisting that they are not counting deaths of people who have other diseases. Like if you have cancer, and you die, they don't count it as from coronavirus (like Italy does) in order to not spread the panic. I think it is the only viable theory, they are having more deaths than critical conditions, significantly less deaths than countries with similar number of infected people and so on.
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Death coding is supposed to be standardised internationally though. Does he work in healthcare?

We’re still dealing with small numbers, so it could just be variance.
 
Skills said:
Why do you say that?
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because the over crowded wet markets where different animals are stacked onto of each other and pass on their excrement, viruses and other crap to each other (shown in VDO above) have been around for ages. These unhygienic and virtually unregulated markets exist all across SE Asia, China and Africa too.

Surely super powerful viruses would develop regularly under such conditions. Why only SARs 20 years ago and now convid19?
 
TMDaines said:
Death coding is supposed to be standardised internationally though. Does he work in healthcare?

We’re still dealing with small numbers, so it could just be variance.
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No, she doesn't. It was mostly her deduction and chatting with other people.

There could be still some variance, but it is too much for it to be variance. They have over 9k cases with 24 deaths, France has 7k with 175 deaths, while Spain has 11k with 510 deaths. Statistically, this looks weird.
 
Not a complete lockdown in Belgium. Still allowed to go for a walk or running, but not in group. All stores closed, except pharmacies and grocery stores.
 
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