I personally would like to go to one of these protests but will not do so due to Covid. I'm sympathetic to your argument that it's a mistake, quite possibly counterproductive and likely to lead to a growth in cases and deaths. Then again I'm a white dude who has no direct experience of police brutality or racism to animate me beyond a common sympathy. I don't feel like I should impugn the motives of someone who's personal calculus is different even if I disagree with the actions that come out of them.
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I personally would like to go to one of these protests but will not do so due to Covid. I'm sympathetic to your argument that it's a mistake, quite possibly counterproductive and likely to lead to a growth in cases and deaths. Then again I'm a white dude who has no direct experience of police brutality or racism to animate me beyond a common sympathy. I don't feel like I should impugn the motives of someone who's personal calculus is different even if I disagree with the actions that come out of them.
Where have all these all lives matter people been before "black lives matter"? Where was their movement? Why didn't they do anything so that indeed all lives mattered? Surely if all lives had mattered stating "black lives matter" would be superfluous. Yet the fact remains that it isn't. And if you're of the opinion that that isn't the case your opinion is easily refuted by facts:
https://www.thebalance.com/the-racial-life-expectancy-gap-in-the-u-s-4588898
So please, do something that shows that all lives do indeed matter, or at least have the fecking class to stop using it as a contrarian talking point before bemoaning the lack of respect that is shown towards "other opinions" on here.
https://www.thebalance.com/the-racial-life-expectancy-gap-in-the-u-s-4588898
So please, do something that shows that all lives do indeed matter, or at least have the fecking class to stop using it as a contrarian talking point before bemoaning the lack of respect that is shown towards "other opinions" on here.
Rightwing vigilantes on armed patrol after fake rumours of antifa threat
'In the Idaho city of Coeur d’Alene groups of 30-50 men armed with semi-automatic weapons have occupied downtown streets on successive evenings this week, guarding against supposed busloads of radical leftists rumored to traveling from cities such as Spokane or Seattle, according to local residents and social media materials obtained by the Guardian.
Videos posted to social media by supporters of the vigilante groups showed dozens of people walking up and down a downtown shopping strip, with many open-carrying AR-15s and other semi-automatic long guns, and sporting tactical apparel.
In a cellphone video, as a videographer pans over the scene, he is heard to say: “If you guys are thinking of coming to Coeur D’Alene, to riot or loot, you’d better think again. Because we ain’t having it in our town.”
He adds: “I guess there’s a big rumor that people from Spokane are gonna come out here and act up. But that shit ain’t gonna happen.”'
(Guardian)
Coeur d'Alene, though a beautiful little town, is just that. A little town that not even people 90 minutes away in Spokane would waste their time going to if they aren't planning to go camping or skiing.Saying black lives matter is in no way a statement that other lives don’t.
People didn’t respond with something like “all lives matter” to Boston Strong, Stand with Vegas, Je suis Charlie, Peace for Paris, etc.
So, years ago I was sympathetic to the statement all lives matter but it's true that all lives can't matter until black lives matter (white lives already matter).
Well, exactly. That’s my point. Racism has been an issue since long before the pandemic. And will need to be fought long after the pandemic is over. So taking to the streets to protest against racism, for several days in a row, right now is starting to seem a bit stupid.
Different circumstances in the US, obviously, as @Leroy The Red said above (EDIT: and below!). I’m only criticising the UK/Ireland protests. That really need to stop. They’ve made their point. Go home.
Yeah this would be fine except we have got the corona virus still lingering around. You can’t completely ignore that. Ultimately this is a long game. If people (in particular non black people in the U.K. ) are truly wanting to help then they need to be in this for the long haul. Racism isn’t going to end in the next few weeks. In several months time when hopefully there’s a handle on this pandemic we’re in, people worldwide will need to come out again in there masses to protest and id argue it’d be a more powerful statement doing it then. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Though like I previously said I don’t think America had a choice. The protests there have almost certainly had an impact on the George Floyd case too.
Hometown of Dan Cummins of the TimeSuck podcast!
Glad you asked.
All lives matter is a response to black lives matter. It is there to deafen that people of color are calling out the brutal injustice that is done towards them.
Black lives matter doesn't mean other lives doesn't matter. It is a message that their house is on fire and it needs attention. Yelling all lives matter in this context becomes the same as asking for painkillers because all pain matters despite your wife being the one going into surgery and you once upon a time had a headache. Or to use the more common analogy: if your house is on fire, how would you feel if your neighbour asked for firefighters to focus on all houses, because all houses matter, when only your house remotely close by is currently on fire.
Your neighbour would look like an ass who isn't remotely informed on the subject.
Let me know when you regularly see whites, asians, mixed, being systematically discriminated against.. then we'll talk about all lives matter.
You must be trolling.
I’ve said it before, I don’t know how anyone can be mad at their govts response to covid and also be mad at protestors.
Obviously all lives matter. That's the default position. But making such a global statement distracts attention from shortcomings that might exist at a local level.
A lifeguard at a pool is there to oversee all lives. That's his purpose. But he can only do that when he's aware of all the kids in his care and of when they're struggling in the water. If one kid in particular is drowning, it's only right that this kid's cries get heard the loudest in that moment.
The Black Lives Matter movement is about recalibrating the system so that all lives can matter. All Lives Matter is not the current situation. You can only make all lives matter once black lives are brought into the fold. That's why the protests need to happen. Until then, ALM is just an empty phrase whose purpose is to ignore specific problems that won't get addressed otherwise.
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That would like being in the 1980s and saying "Ethiopians need to eat", and then some guy pipes up "no, all people need to eat". Both statements are true but the 1st statement would be the most pressing matter.
My man ends a post bolding all lives matter. A phrase that he knows has been coopted with a racist slant and used to shut down the BLM movement.
You literally put it on its own line for impact.
When people OBVIOUSLY pick up on that, gives it the whole “what the hell, why are you so annoyed?”
People like you just can’t argue in good faith. Just have the balls to admit how you truly feel ffs and stop pretending to be outraged after a deliberately provocative statement.
Hilarious stuff:
SUFFRAGETTES AND FEMINISTS: "Women matter."
MEN: "Wow, what a bunch of sexists!"
BLACK PEOPLE: "Black people matter."
WHITE PEOPLE: "Wow, what a bunch of racists!"
SUFFRAGETTES AND FEMINISTS: "Women matter."
MEN: "Wow, what a bunch of sexists!"
BLACK PEOPLE: "Black people matter."
WHITE PEOPLE: "Wow, what a bunch of racists!"
What are your opinions of Candace Owens video that went viral?
I don’t want you to feel like I’m picking on you because I also quoted you in the other thread, but regarding your resistance to the protests (and I understand the context with the pandemic also taking place) but you’ve made a fair few posts about the lockdown and how workers should be going back. How’re you annoyed at colleagues who worked from home and why schools should be opening. You’re talking about millions of people when you make these points, a number far, far larger than the protests.
And this post should really be an end to this matter in this thread.
It's the sort of thing when said by itself you wouldn't really argue with but when you realise why it's being said you view changes, or should really change them.
If you tell me that Candace Owens is the current Grand Wizard, I may believe you.
She was talking about Floyd being a bad guy?
If so, few criminals are a great people in the eyes of the law, it doesn't mens cops can execute them at will. Cops are there to make arrest, the justice system is supposed to take care of the sentencing.
Because both will result in needless deaths of people from COVID. The government response hasn't been strong enough and the protesters are giving a huge middle finger to the social distancing measures. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
I'd possibly be there if it wasn't for the virus so I can get on board with what you are saying to an extent...but again we are talking about people dying and applying basic principles to that. It simply isn't possible to say "Black lives matter" and expect anyone to take you seriously while your actions are showing everyone that you don't think people's lives matter at all.
I could potentially take a different view if there was a end game but what is the end game with the protests in the UK? To turn the country against BLM protesters?
I don't judge the motives of someone who's situation I don't understand, but motives and actions are two very different things. A motive of wanting to fight against suffering from discrimination is different from using that to justify an action of doing something you know will kill innocent people.
I think we both know that if we cut through the bullshit, the mindset in most cases is likely more on the lines of "well I probably don't have corona so if people die as a result of me being here it isn't really my fault"...People who are so angry they need to protest purely out of emotion don't usually spend days producing loads of nice posters about it and organise it like some kind of ongoing music festival, nd happen to (from my social media anyway) be the exact same people who always crop up when there's a protest about pretty much anything else.
She was saying that Floyd shouldn't be looked at as a "hero or martyr" as he was the same guy who held a gun at a pregnant lady and forced her to tell her where the money was in a forced home invasion.
Imagine what Bob Geldof would have replied if someone had said that to him
Haven't seen it, will you post here please?
The unrest in the US is striking a chord with people in this country, as well as other cities in the world. The subsequent demonstrations have been sustained by emotion. For many of these people, they can’t decide when to feel angry or upset about the situation. That this has come to a head during a pandemic is ill timing; albeit arguably more powerful for it.
Does't change my take on it.
"he was a bad guy"
He still got murdered by the police. They aren't supposed to execute people. They are supposed to arrest.
He isn't held up as a hero or martyr. He is held up as yet another case of police brutality towards people of color. She is missing the mark.
Yup, absolutely right. Really disappointing to see Manchester today.
You still refuse to acknowledge how all lives matter is a counter-protest?Thanks for the apology, no worries.
Sometimes saying all lives matter or similar means just that, all lives matter, without the extra ad ons.. The human race needs equality for men, women, black and white and everything in between.
Maybe today is not the time and place for me to go on about all lives and equality for all, so apologies if insensitive or seen as being insensitive.
You're still a dick though
If you understand that and still go on about it then you are simply put racist. If you don't understand it then you need to do more research and reflection.
wow. Expected better from you, give your head a wobble noodle.
Exactly. The reaction is not exclusively about Floyd, it’s a reaction against 400 years of cruelty towards black people in the US. Floyd was the famous last straw you can say.
Who said they didn't? Why are you trying to interpret the BLM movement as something it's not?
Are you enjoying the attention or are you really this clueless?
This is a more important thread than it initially appears:
Why not actually address the post before you dismiss it like that? I'm failing to see what's wrong with what he said.
Because it’s purposely ignoring what the protest is about? I’m not going to bother arguing with a blatantly racist view.