I will put it here once again and people should listen carefully and understand what is said. Violence isn't good or a solution but it is understandable.
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Protests following the killing of George Floyd
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I will put it here once again and people should listen carefully and understand what is said. Violence isn't good or a solution but it is understandable.
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The first one minute of the speech is exactly what I’ve been saying over the last few pages. Violence is counter productive and detrimental to the objectives of BLM even if it is understandable. That’s talking about riots even not the mindless thugs who are out to rob and steal.
Unfortunately there is more than one minute and that's the point that people have tried to tell you. And by the way, that man was assassinated.
I support the message...but not the burning of innocent peoples businesses or their political leanings. I don't think that's too controversial.
I have been looking into this, apparently these were comments made a few years ago after some instances of shoplifting.... yes he wanted to stop shoplifters breeding and wanted to warehouse them....
I never disputed the fact that riots were a result of social conditions none of which detracts from the message of the first minute. Anyway keep on rioting and we will see if the ends justify the means.
Innocent people having their businesses burnt to the ground and livelihoods lost does not matter to these folk. Enjoy your ride trying to convince them otherwise.
You keep saying these things without citing any sources.
BLM is not a homogenous group. It's just people who are not racist, fighting for racial equality. If you say you support BLM, then guess what? You're also part of this group.
In any group of individuals you will find people with differing, opposing & extreme views - those people are not representative of the entire group.
Unless what you're suggesting is people who are fighting for racial equality are also anti-capitalist. You see how ridiculous that sounds?
Secondly - you keep bringing politics in to it, which further shows your lack of understanding. To believe BLM is political, is to believe that racism is political - and therefore anyone who doesn't support BLM (which, in your words is 'too left leaning') is not only Right leaning, but also racist. Another ridiculous statement which I hope you can understand.
Once again, I leave you with this:
- Define what the message of BLM is
- What is the political leaning of BLM, with citations
Like the vast majority of BLM supporters then....
You have, you have essentially denied the fact that after decades of peaceful protests some people may show anger, you have also ignored that part in MLK's speech which is telling, your answer to @calodo2003 a few pages ago also saw you reduce these protests to burning and looting, you went as far as generalizing an entire country/community, you seemingly don't care about the fact that people have and still are trying to debate and discuss but that decision makers don't care, have never cared and will most likely never care.
Now, can you answer that question that I asked you yesterday because your reply never addressed it?
Do you pigeonhole the police for the actions of bad apples also? Or do you generalise about your average white male based on the actions of a few? Do you not understand that the people 'rioting' are a subset and not actually representative?
Because if you do and are as adamant about it just say so and save posters wasting their valuable time trying to debate with you...
You and others that keep generalising about BLM (a global movement consisting of multiple individuals and subgroups with different opinions and agendas) while being corrected at every opportunity come across in the weirdest way to people like me. Distinct lack of empathy, understanding and willingness to see anything outside of your point of view. Closet racist? Anti the movement and what it stands for but unwillingly to disclose that? Bitterness? Stubborn and argumentative for the heck of it? Contrarian? I don't know but it's not a good look...
I mean who actually wants to be debating the angle you've chosen, like wants to and keeps coming back to? Baffling...
Slavery was an evil that was rightfully abolished and it is part of history now. Nobody today is a slave or has a living relative who was a slave and the people who enslaved black people are long gone. If you were to ask for reparations who would they pay them to? The Nazis killed 6 million Jews in horrific circumstances and they paid reparations to the survivors for the suffering they endured because there were survivors. Slavery ended 150 years ago I can't begin to understand the psychological strain that must have on the people but I think white people paid a blood price for it in the American Civil War where many white boys were killed and maimed to free black people.
I speak out for BLM where I can. Most people I've spoken to around this region consider BLM to be thugs and criminals. Whatever sympathy there was for black people after the George Floyd incident disappeared with the daily news of looting and burning and destruction. People are shocked by the actions of the rioters and they care for public order too much to understand why these acts of destruction are in any way justified. I would point out the difference between those who are seeking justice and equal rights and the mindless thugs who loot and burn but it seems that there is a lot of support for these thugs so maybe I'm wrong. I'm not even going to address your absurd post about big shops being looted but its no big deal because they have insurance. Looting is the criminal act of a thug that should be condemned by any right thinking person.
MLK condemned the riots and condemned the social conditions which created them I agree with that. You on the other hand seem only capable of doing the latter.
I don't think you've actually read my posts to be coming up with that conclusion. Can you show me where I said that the people rioting are representative of the majority, or even insinuated it. Ive got enough people to talk to and from your tone I feel that talking to you would be a waste of time because you're just here to condemn me without understanding my POV.
It's funny how people get so up in arms about innocent business owners having their stuff destroyed, when innocent minorities have their lives ruined on a daily basis. Neither things are good, but I don't remember all of the people up in arms about the former speaking so loudly about the latter?
I've read your posts, I'm wondering if you actually have? Why do you even think you're getting pushback?
It is very strange but when you have people taking informations from conservative feeds, you kind of understand. These business owners are collateral victims and they shouldn't be but at the same time if so many americans that are not victims of racism, other prejudices or police brutality didn't decide to collectively ignore these issues and ignore the peaceful protests or even in the case kneeling, flat out stand against them, the situation wouldn't have spiraled.
The pearl clutching is something else regarding the property destruction.
I didn't reduce the protests to burning and looting I only codemned the burning and looting as being ineffective. Its like we are talking about a football game and I'm talking about the incidents that happened during the 50-60th min time period. That doesn't in any way mean the other 80 mins of the match didn't happen or were not important I just choose not to address them because they were not part of the topic of discussion. That doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the majority of BLM protests as being peaceful. Their cause is being hurt by the violent people. How many times must I repeat that?
If you are seriously going to deny that any change has taken place and that the status of blacks is the same as it was 100 years ago then I would suggest you move to another country.
The point is when you are smashing cars(and setting them on fire)., looting and burning business and property you are not fighting your opressor. You are only turning random people against you and increasing division.
So Black people should get over slavery because white boys were killed in the civil war? What about the Black people also killed? What about the lynchings? Jim Crow? The 13th amendment? Edgar Hoover and the CIA? The list goes on and on.
Not only do you display a lack of understanding and knowledge, but also a lack of real sympathy.
I don’t blame you entirely, the history of black suffering isn’t and has never been taught in proper detail - however everyone has a super computer in their poker, so being ignorant is simply not a good enough excuse in 2020.
Its not up to me to teach you, because truthfully I don’t think you actually care beyond surface level support, I.e. racism is bad.
Your second paragraph is not going to get a proper response because it sounds like you’re surrounded by idiots - but again - if they are mostly fed information from the media, I don’t blame them entirely. However once again - supercomputer, everyone has it.
As for your last paragraph, the continued disservice that non-black people keep putting on MLK’s name is frankly disgusting.
He was not your kumbaya, let’s hold hands & pray for world peace black saviour.
Others have posted videos of his speeches if you wish you watch them.
I will simply tell you to read his letters from Birmingham jail, where he cites very specifically and explicitly that it is not the rabid racist who continues to hold back minorities - but rather the lucid racist who accepts that racism exists but chooses to do nothing about it. And because of such people, and their continued apathy to violence & oppression of black people, that the anger, frustration & violence shown in riots is understandable and should continue because there is no silence where there is no justice.
It seems you know little to nothing of MLK, I suggest you refute from misquoting or misrepresenting him & his legacy in the future. And you don’t know what I’m capable of, what a silly statement.
I've read your posts, I'm wondering if you actually have? Why do you even think you're getting pushback?
Because my opinion makes me a minority and minorities are usually oppressed for being different. We all know that.
for the millionth time - anyone who is willing to turn against the fight for equality because property has been lost or damaged - was never serious about fighting for equality in the first place.
People should not forget that majority of the protests are peaceful.
You did, in the following post. Do you actually think that your gaslighting is efficient?
And no I'm telling you that the same problems exists, the same problems of racism, police brutality and different access to amenities, which are the point of these protests. Now of course if you think that it is about lynchings and strict segregation then you are right, things have changed but it's not the point of the protests and it's pure obfuscation.
Same goes to the 'bad apples' and corrupt system then right? If they keep killing black people, and not holding themselves accountable they will end up 'turning random people against you and increasing division'
... and here we are. So we have 2 issues, but y'all seem to be concentrating on the lesser one.
Booo hooo. The KKK are also minority... Thank God.
Time to get out the bingo card...
I would even say the vast majority, approaching Ivory soap levels.
They’re choosing to ignore because they don’t actually support BLM.
How can a Sheriff get that p*ssed off about shop-lifting?
There must be a sub-text I'm missing.
I wonder? Hmmmmm
That was a response to a guy who told me to stop posting. What does that have to do with majorities or minorities or representation or whatever? Are you really so desperate to paint a picture of me as something that I'm not? Come on this is just plain lying.
This adds a bit more context, but I agree, his rant is deep seeded, something had to have caused his psychosis. But, if he weathered that storm & was re-elected, no doubt he will continue to remain in office.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...-people-that-arent-worth-saving-aclu-1050971/
If it walks like a duck...
Yes. It's that simple.... so I respond in kind. They can cry about the response all they want... Zero fecks given.
And I don't think those actions furthers the cause for equality. Hence I consider it counterproductive.
so basically, black people can only expect equality when they & their allies act perfectly?
I think that is an oversimplification and ignores the individual experiences of people though. People having an issue with some of the things done by people under the banner of BLM and so not wanting to support that movement itself is not the same as not supporting the fight for equality.
Very little major social change ever occurs peacefully, its something that Governments haven't seemed to grasp yet. When an oppressed section of society doesn't see any change or any willingness to be listened to violence will spill over, I'm not saying the looting and criminality is in anyway excusable but its nothing new. Until the police in America has some proper training in deescalating situations and stop shooting in situations they have no reason to these protests / riots will continue, while they are at it sort out the idiotic gun laws that are a massive root cause of the problem.
So you were suggesting that the problems of america are due to Calodo burning and looting?
You hear the same thing repeated with every struggle... Aparthied, Civil Rights, Palestine, and on and on. Without exception.
"Until we have peace, you won't get justice".