But, but, he was on sky and everybody has been wanking about it.
Get Mauricio In
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
To be honest people are vastly exaggerating the difference in managerial level between these two. Poch isn't a major upgrade over Ole.
If we are to replace Ole then let's look for someone who has something to show for instead, like say... previous trophies.
If we are to replace Ole then let's look for someone who has something to show for instead, like say... previous trophies.
I really can't get people thinking Ole wasn't backed.
There was no way in hell we were going to pay 120m for Sancho and 80m for Grealish in a post COVID window. Expecting us to spend 200m on two players is way too unrealistic. We still got VDB as a cheaper option for Grealish which was a very good business. We didn't get him zero options at all, we got him alternatives, and very good ones too.
And the squad currently is very good, honestly good enough to do something. I don't know for how long we'll be stuck thinking all the answers come from outside the club or in that "rebuild" project, but this squad has showed several times on their day they can defeat anyone, as shown against PSG and RB and also at the end of last season, and the only thing missing for us to win something is consistency. At the moment Ole is failing to get a consistent tone out of these players day in day out. It's at the end of the day his responsibility as a manager.
But you're totally ignoring context (i.e it was a spurs side with no money for players and not even a stadium for 18 months) , and writing off his best achievement in getting to the champs league final as a 'shock result against city' and a 'fluked semi final'. Harsh to suggest he 'fecked up the final' against the best team in the world, too.
Im not even of the opinion that he is the answer, but he did a brilliant job at Spurs.
Will Poch teach Wan-Bissaka how to cross?
And yet he still spent plenty of money, poorly.
Plus he’s unlikely to get loads of money at a United run by the Glazers.
He didn’t do a brilliant job at Spurs, or at least if he did, so did AVB and ‘Arry.
He’s a latin David Moyes. ‘Does an amazing job with no money‘ whilst being shit against the sides he competes with and can’t scout a player for love nor money.
We will be playing more matches with smaller teams anyway, if he has not great record against top 6, and still managed to be 4th the best team in england overall with net spend of 90 mil, that means his side was good against smaller teams and he know how to implement a football to crack those teams. Thats excatly what we need. We need patterns of play and better positional football, i think Poch might be able to deliver that, while his teams are also great at pressing and hard-working which is a great bonus.
He made an impact everywhere he has been - Espanyol, Southampton, Spurs.
He made an impact everywhere he has been - Espanyol, Southampton, Spurs.
I doubt a new manager will bring about the desired consistency United are so desperately lacking.
Normally would laugh my head off, but in reality, this might be what we look forward to unless the team bucks up and gets some results soon.
Do we have to pay out Ole's contract if we sack him now? Van Gaal was so bitter he actually didn't take another job to get the full payout just to spite Woodward. I'm sure Mourinho got himself a nice payout too because he probably was on a ridiculous salary. This club might have actually spent more on sacking fees of managers than on say right wingers to actually improve our team over the last years.
Poch does seem like a decent guy and a decent manager. But let's not forget he had better CB's available at Spurs than we've ever had at United since SAF retired. With Kane he also had a better striker than we've ever had in the last six years, delivering the goods week in week out, year after year. And he had some other seriously good players for other positions as well.
People on here often don't believe it, but over the course of a couple of seasons, managers are generally only as good as the players they have available. And while we don't have a bad squad and spent serious money on it, I feel in terms of actual individual quality available we're nowhere near City or Liverpool, so yeah good luck to Pochettino turning us into league winners again.
Biggest problem I have with Pochettino is the way Spurs played those two CL semi-finals against Ajax. Spurs one of the bigger clubs of England, yet they played in the typical Argentinian coward style, every bit as bad as United vs Sevilla under Mourinho. Pathetic display, Ajax was so much better than them, they didn't deserve the final at all. Poch smugly cried afterwards and took the glory though.
Poch does seem like a decent guy and a decent manager. But let's not forget he had better CB's available at Spurs than we've ever had at United since SAF retired. With Kane he also had a better striker than we've ever had in the last six years, delivering the goods week in week out, year after year. And he had some other seriously good players for other positions as well.
People on here often don't believe it, but over the course of a couple of seasons, managers are generally only as good as the players they have available. And while we don't have a bad squad and spent serious money on it, I feel in terms of actual individual quality available we're nowhere near City or Liverpool, so yeah good luck to Pochettino turning us into league winners again.
Biggest problem I have with Pochettino is the way Spurs played those two CL semi-finals against Ajax. Spurs one of the bigger clubs of England, yet they played in the typical Argentinian coward style, every bit as bad as United vs Sevilla under Mourinho. Pathetic display, Ajax was so much better than them, they didn't deserve the final at all. Poch smugly cried afterwards and took the glory though.
Woody waiting for Poc to sign for another club and then he will make a move to try and get him.
No. He’ll play Ethan Laird.
And what? We still have midtable players like, Henderson, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, AWB, Mata, McTominay, Lingard, James, Martial and Rashford and more.
Laird is always injured.
Disagree it sounds like your personal opinion against Poch is formed out of emotive reasoning vs logic. Irrespective of the record against top 6 he's consistently finished top 4. He's reached a UCL final the fact that him winning it would sway others opinions just goes to show how shallow minded many fans are. Di matteo won the competition but completely depleted the following season, the capabilities to win a competition for some managers doesn't immediately mean they are guaranteed prosperity there are other factors that influence their managerial success. I don't think Poch is the best manager available but is he better than Ole ? Absolutely and that is good enough.
When you also consider Tottenham and them typically being the third biggest club in London, the consistency Poch provided them to contend for the league is a good achievement. Spurs played a better foundation of football compared to us and he improved many individual players independently. The choice should be between Rose, Nagelsmann or Poch. Anyone campaigning for Solskjaer is either a rival fan in disguise or in genuine denial to the reality of his mediocrity.
I showed the facts of his tenure at Spurs. If that’s emotive reasoning vs. logic then I don’t know what to say.
He has never won a trophy, it DOES matter, despite you thinking it‘s shallow minded to think about. In fact he’s actively said he doesn’t need to win trophies. A winning mentality and a need to win trophies are essential.
Over his tenure at Spurs did he improve them over where AVB and Redknapp had them? What was his consistent play style that they didn’t do already?
You need to add in that during that time all of the big clubs had poor periods that made it easier for another team to come in and cement a place. Leicester won the league ffs.
I don’t think Ole is ultimately going to win us the league but I don’t see Pochettino as a massive upgrade, at all.
Meanwhile there’s evidence that he won’t add to the team in the right way transfer wise which is what we really need.
Mid table players wtf
Tell me what top team would have those as starters? Rashford and Martial probably on bench of most. Other not good enough.
Duncan Castles said on last weeks Transfer Window podcast that Poch is the preferred candidate for PSG and Madrid should they sack their managers. High on Utd list as well. So if PSG or Madrid move first and sack their managers we would be left with who as potential replacement for Ole? Allegri? Same school of football as Mourinho and Simeone.
NO!!!!
Nagelsmann or bust
If Julian Nagelsmann's job interview was part of that Leipzig game, rest assured he wouldn't be getting a follow-up call from Woodward.
Yep, just like the four successive top 4 finishes - on a shoe-string budget - were all exceptions to the rule.
Or to put it another way, given the budget he had compared to his competitors, achieving exceptional results was the rule .
I think you’re not being fair at all here. He was in charge of Spurs, not Man City. If anything, it was amazing that he was competing so regularly with the funds and wage bill that he had.
Spurs were very much behind the top teams in the league before he came in and he changed the image of the club totally. He took them from “it’s Spurs lads” to being in the CL competing with Europe’s best teams.
People seem to remember Spurs as what he made them, rather than what they were before he came.
At United he would have far more resources, far better players overall and far more options in the transfer market.
It’s crazy not to rate his work at Spurs. It was a fantastic job.
Transfer record
2014-15
Davies
Vorm
Dier
Yedlin
Fazio
Stambouli
Alli
2015-16
Wimmer
Trippier
Alderweireld
N’Jie
Son
Tracey
2016-17
Wanyama
Janssen
Velasco
Nkoudou
Sissoko
Tainio
2017-18
Sanchez
Gazzaniga
Foyth
Aurier
Llorente
Moura
2018-19
No one
2019-20
Etete
Solberg
Clarke
Ndombele
Sessegnon
Vorm
Always felt like he had no idea where to go with adding to the squadonce he had his core. Some players are great like Son, Alderweireld, Alli for the first few years. Many average and worse.
Can argue about the financial constraints of course. Spurs being a smaller club and having a stadium to pay for do make a difference.
As for not rating his time at Spurs, he had them competing and yeah he achieved top 4 finishes but every big team around him had tumultuous periods that his fanboys never acknowledge made it easier to achieve those results. We dropped the ball completely, Liverpool gradually built up towards the end, Arsenal and Chelsea all over the place. Even City were up and down. Their points rtotals under him weren’t significantly different to Villas Boas or Redknapp’s so it’s not true that Spurs were nowhere before he came in.
2009-10 4th 70pts Redknapp
2010-11 5th 62pts Redknapp
2011-12 4th 69pts Redknapp
2012-13 5th 72pts AVB
2013-14 6th 69pts AVB then Sherwood
2014-15 5th 64pts Poch
2015-16 3rd 70pts Poch
2016-17 2nd 86pts Poch (fair play for second and points total but miles behind Chelsea and in line with just competing with teams around them)
2017-18 3rd 77pts Poch
2018-19 4th 71pts Poch
2014-15
Davies
Vorm
Dier
Yedlin
Fazio
Stambouli
Alli
2015-16
Wimmer
Trippier
Alderweireld
N’Jie
Son
Tracey
2016-17
Wanyama
Janssen
Velasco
Nkoudou
Sissoko
Tainio
2017-18
Sanchez
Gazzaniga
Foyth
Aurier
Llorente
Moura
2018-19
No one
2019-20
Etete
Solberg
Clarke
Ndombele
Sessegnon
Vorm
Always felt like he had no idea where to go with adding to the squadonce he had his core. Some players are great like Son, Alderweireld, Alli for the first few years. Many average and worse.
Can argue about the financial constraints of course. Spurs being a smaller club and having a stadium to pay for do make a difference.
As for not rating his time at Spurs, he had them competing and yeah he achieved top 4 finishes but every big team around him had tumultuous periods that his fanboys never acknowledge made it easier to achieve those results. We dropped the ball completely, Liverpool gradually built up towards the end, Arsenal and Chelsea all over the place. Even City were up and down. Their points rtotals under him weren’t significantly different to Villas Boas or Redknapp’s so it’s not true that Spurs were nowhere before he came in.
2009-10 4th 70pts Redknapp
2010-11 5th 62pts Redknapp
2011-12 4th 69pts Redknapp
2012-13 5th 72pts AVB
2013-14 6th 69pts AVB then Sherwood
2014-15 5th 64pts Poch
2015-16 3rd 70pts Poch
2016-17 2nd 86pts Poch (fair play for second and points total but miles behind Chelsea and in line with just competing with teams around them)
2017-18 3rd 77pts Poch
2018-19 4th 71pts Poch
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He’s right. What has he achieved?
If it’s just top 4 then we did it under Ole last season.
If it’s to build a team, don’t you think our squad is good enough since people think this squad can do more than top 4?
If it’s to win trophies then Poch isn’t the answer.
Just like Moyes at Everton.
Look how that turned out.
Successfully competing for top 4 or being around there with a smaller budget was being done before he got there against stronger opposition then lots of managerial change happened in the other top teams when Poch started and had his spell at the club.
Yes he did well but he didn‘t exceed expectations and didn’t win anything.
Leicester won the league the year he had the best shot at it and he managed to finish third in a two horse race.
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At this point I’d take Ian Holloway just to break from the bondage we have with this guy
Moyes consistently got into the Champions League and competed with the very best teams in the competition? He got 4th once in 11 years and immediately lost his qualifier. Finishing consistently in the top 4 is another world to being the best of the rest.
I think you need to look into Spurs finances at that time, his overall spend and his wage budget and compare it to the other teams.
Spurs had qualified once before with Bale and Modric taking them there. Poch did it consistently and kept competing even when he only had Sissoko and Winks as options at CM and was forced into playing other players out of position. He had no backup for Kane and continued to compete even with his layoffs.
Tottenham were a million miles away from being a consistent CL team when he joined. To suggest otherwise is a massive stretch. He literally cemented them in that position and gets no credit for it.
No, I meant competing for CL places, not competing in the tournament. Moyes consistently competed for CL spots on an even smaller budget.
And Redknapp got them there twice. AVB missed out by a point (on the final day IIRC) in his first year. That when the top four was more firmly established.
Yea they qualified more under Poch but that doesn’t tell the tale of what happened to the top four race around that time which you seem to ignore.
I feel like you are all exaggerating the fact that he hasn't won anything. Kloop had a reputation of being a bottler in the big games at least in champions league, until he got ove the hump. Maybe a little faith would go a long way.
Klopp won two league titles.
If Poch was up to scratch with winning things he’d have easily won when Leicester did as that was the opportunity.
Instead he came out with the ‘don’t need to win things’ line as it started to hang round his neck.
It’s as big as it is because we tried the faith things once before with a plucky underdog. There’s no evidence that Poch would do the job at United anymore than there was with Moyes.
Winning cups at the very least is achievable for teams not quite there in the league and he never has. Nothing.
And he’s a fecking coward in big games. At least Jose had trophies to back up his approach.
The argument that we shouldn’t hire him because he hasn’t won a trophy makes no sense considering people are saying this and then saying we should hire nagelsman. What has he won?
Can’t have it both ways.
I wouldn't say that he's the best choice (would prefer a more attacking coach tbg) but he's a major upgrade over Ole. He's actually done a top class job at a Pl club. Ole has done nothing at the highest level other than stumble to 3rd with 66 points. One had his fans delighted with the job he did. The other has never been rated by anyone as he isn't very good.
And I don't think he would focus all that much on someone who has won trophies. It would be great to have that, but this narrow-mindedness will cost us. The manger has to be the right fit and be able to win trophies here. Oherwise we're limiting ourselves to the likes of Allegri etc who won't bring in the tactical foundation this team desperately and it also excluded promising young managers like Nagelsmann and Rose merely because they haven't won anything yet with small clubs. As if we're in a position to decline Klopp as he was when Dortmund hired him.
So yeah, not sure he's the right manager but he's comfortably better than Ole without doubt.
So everyone who is saying Poch isn't the right choice can at least tell who they think is available who is the right choice for the role.
People backing Ole forget that excluding his first 3 months and 3 months post lock down, our football has been a disaster. Watching the matches, it feels there is no plan at all. I am not saying that players are not too blame but it feels like they are not coached or motivated properly.
One thing we all can agree is that we don't deserve to be sitting around 15th on the table after 6-7 games. I am not saying we should be in top 2...but to expect top 4 is reasonable.
Its a long way ahead for our club, get your expectations right. A solid two years of no trophy but finishing in top 4 with small improvements with right coaching and right recruitment is critical and I don't think Ole is the right coach.
I look at Brendon rodgers, Arteta, even Mourinho....all seems to have a pattern of play but we are still struggling to find a consistent formation after two years of him being in the role......
Get Poch, he is no Klopp (atleast until he proves himself).....He is a good coach where we are...He most likely will get better out of this group....Stabalize yourself as a club before we think about flying again
People backing Ole forget that excluding his first 3 months and 3 months post lock down, our football has been a disaster. Watching the matches, it feels there is no plan at all. I am not saying that players are not too blame but it feels like they are not coached or motivated properly.
One thing we all can agree is that we don't deserve to be sitting around 15th on the table after 6-7 games. I am not saying we should be in top 2...but to expect top 4 is reasonable.
Its a long way ahead for our club, get your expectations right. A solid two years of no trophy but finishing in top 4 with small improvements with right coaching and right recruitment is critical and I don't think Ole is the right coach.
I look at Brendon rodgers, Arteta, even Mourinho....all seems to have a pattern of play but we are still struggling to find a consistent formation after two years of him being in the role......
Get Poch, he is no Klopp (atleast until he proves himself).....He is a good coach where we are...He most likely will get better out of this group....Stabalize yourself as a club before we think about flying again
If only we could get Klopp now. I mean we tried everything.
Emotional appointment of SAFs chosen one. Failed.
Experienced appointment of supposed master tactician. Failed.
World class appointment which should have been done in 2013. Failed.
Emotional appointment of club legend without checking his managerial chops. Failed.
Where do we go from here. I guess we need to go completely left field this time.
Emotional appointment of SAFs chosen one. Failed.
Experienced appointment of supposed master tactician. Failed.
World class appointment which should have been done in 2013. Failed.
Emotional appointment of club legend without checking his managerial chops. Failed.
Where do we go from here. I guess we need to go completely left field this time.
It's just back to basics. Just have to try and hire someone who is available and who ticks as many boxes as possible.
Have they had success (relative to their club's position and budget)?
Have they managed big squads with big egos?
Have they got charisma and will they command respect from our spineless prima donna players?
Do they speak good English?
Do they have a recognised philosophy/patterns of play/tactical flexibility?
Do they have a track record of giving youngsters a chance?
Do they have a track record of improving players?
Are they hungry and driven?
Are they good at dealing with the press?
I'm not Ole out, but it's clear that changes need to be made.
The tactics set out by our coaches are a combination of being out of date and potentially not being premier league standard at all
The manager has power to move on coaches and bring in new ones, so if he's fine to continue with trainers who are clearly inept, then perhaps he will fall on his sword soon
It's a real shame, because there's much to like about him (aside from being a United hero), however an inability to delegate to the right people and not recognize that after an extended period of time will be his undoing
I won't look too much into in game management (subs, etc) as there's certain facets such as player fitness which fans may be unaware of. Donny is a baffling one though...
The tactics set out by our coaches are a combination of being out of date and potentially not being premier league standard at all
The manager has power to move on coaches and bring in new ones, so if he's fine to continue with trainers who are clearly inept, then perhaps he will fall on his sword soon
It's a real shame, because there's much to like about him (aside from being a United hero), however an inability to delegate to the right people and not recognize that after an extended period of time will be his undoing
I won't look too much into in game management (subs, etc) as there's certain facets such as player fitness which fans may be unaware of. Donny is a baffling one though...
Who though?
We seem to be in the middle of a transitional period for managers, a time where there are only two stand-out managers and unfortunately they are at our two biggest rivals. Maybe Zidane as well although it's kind of hard to know how to rate him (as strange as that is to say for someone with his titles).
Everyone else seems to be either an old great who are past their best (we already went down this route with LVG and Mourinho), someone who had some success in a one-team league where it's more difficult not to win a title than it is to win it, or are a fairly young up-coming manager who haven't had a chance to show what they can do at a top club yet. It's why so many of the top clubs seem to be hiring their old legends for the role recently. Everyone is trying to find the next Pep/Klopp/Zidane because at the moment there is a huge gap.
Tuchel was at Dortmund and now PSG (it's debatable whether he's been a success at PSG), Unai Emery at Sevilla, PSG and Arsenal (also debatable at PSG and then failed at Arsenal). Off the top of my head Pochettino is probably the next most established and experienced of the 'next gen' coming through, taking Spurs into a constant top four and a CL final. Obviously Flick has had one amazing season at Bayern so we'll see how he goes as time passes. After that it's about taking an educated guess on who can take the step up to a top team, with the likes of Nagelsmann and Rose being often mentioned on here but I'm sure there are other options as well.
I understand your frustration. This isn't Manchester United. You are a true fan that knows exactly what United needs to do to get back to where we should be. Look at the video below. pochettino will at least make our players play with high intensity.