Is Poch really the answer?

glazed said:
Well it is possible. But it would require a lot of luck.
Click to expand...
What part of the glazers model has impeded the manager? I'd rather their dividends went into actually buying players but they've still spent a fair sum on Ole's vision and they can't actually be responsible for some of the tactical errors on match day

If anything I wish they'd get a Dof to veto some of the manager's targets like Maguire and build a sustainable structure so we aren't as dependent on the manager's vision. You know that what DoFs are for and why managers actually prefer working without one
 
I’ll never understand why managers are just appointed by clubs. It’s such an old fashioned and, frankly, nonsense approach.

In the event of Ole’s sacking, the board should be welcoming applications and properly interviewing the suitable candidates - seeing what their plans are, tactics, transfers, seeing if they are a good fit. Why do managers get to just waltz into the job based on their name and reputation?
 
Gopher Brown said:
I’ll never understand why managers are just appointed by clubs. It’s such an old fashioned and, frankly, nonsense approach.

In the event of Ole’s sacking, the board should be welcoming applications and properly interviewing the suitable candidates - seeing what their plans are, tactics, transfers, seeing if they are a good fit. Why do managers get to just waltz into the job based on their name and reputation?
Click to expand...
It’s called head hunting and is done in almost every recruitment business
 
Poch will need time. My choice for quick results would be Roy Keane, without doubt. He will definitely kick a lot of ass in this dressing room, and that's exactly what United players really need right now.
 
Greck said:
What part of the glazers model has impeded the manager?
Click to expand...

Err everything?

Buying players for marketing value and resale value rather than to fit a squad.

Not having a DoF because they would over-rule the accountant who actually runs the club - because the owner's annual dividend is in reality the most important target in the club.

Hiring a manager who is not qualified in the first place, because they needed a fan favourite to insulate them from criticism.

Actively setting Champions League qualification as the main target because it is a financial sweet spot - and quite evidently not caring about anything else.

Che Guevara said:
Poch will need time. My choice for quick results would be Roy Keane, without doubt. He will definitely kick a lot of ass in this dressing room, and that's exactly what United players really need right now.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Are you Joel Glazer?
 
It sounds ridiculous but I was impressed with Nagelsmann despite the 0-5 defeat. They really took the game to us for 75mins and you could see they are incredibly well coached (up until the 76th minute!)

Pochettino for me would be an improvement on Ole in terms of coaching/tactical ability but I’m not convinced he’s the right calibre.

There must be somebody available in Europe who has better credentials than Poch?
 
Judas said:
We're Man Utd, we should be in the position to make any manager available.
Click to expand...

We aren’t in that position though. We don’t have that much money anymore compared to others, we are not a tier 1 club for a while now. The hottest band in 2008 isn’t necessarily headlining Glastonbury next year so to speak.
 
Similar to Ole, he'll be boring with safe comments generally in press conference/interviews, so Ed will love that.

Contrast to Ole, Poch will spend more time on the touchline than chilling on the bench.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
And yet despite that sample size of 5 games I'd still rather he stay! Really makes you think, huh?
Click to expand...

May be you should be worry to your own manager how your current manager keep getting his butt spanked by the manager you don’t feel threat. Fact is that the exact date & month last year, you were 10 points ahead of us but somehow this manager you don’t feel threat actually managed to close the big gaps and finished higher than you end of the season. And right now United is only 5 points less with Chelsea anew also a game less to catch up.
 
When it comes to new managers, seems we have this pattern and always making more or less the same move.
 
Lentwood said:
It sounds ridiculous but I was impressed with Nagelsmann despite the 0-5 defeat. They really took the game to us for 75mins and you could see they are incredibly well coached (up until the 76th minute!)

Pochettino for me would be an improvement on Ole in terms of coaching/tactical ability but I’m not convinced he’s the right calibre.

There must be somebody available in Europe who has better credentials than Poch?
Click to expand...
Would take both Negelsmann and even Rose ahead of Poch.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I agree with this.

We have a midfield with Bruno & Pogba ffs! & our first choice front 3 is exciting as it gets; we start £200mil+ of defender/gk but look clueless there.

We really should be coached better.
Click to expand...

Ole has his faults but this sort of thing is incredibly naive.

This front 3 that is "exciting as it gets" all had career best seasons under Ole last season. Martial and Rashford have improved significantly under Ole and he managed Greenwood's step up to the first team exceptionally well. Not pushing him when he wasn't ready despite having no other decent options showed long term thinking.

When you have such a young inexperienced attack, it's no surprise that you have an inconsistent team. That's the trade off when you play youth. Great in the long run but you need a manager willing to sacrifice instant success.

If you look at accomplishments and tangible achievements in senior football, which is the best (or most exciting) front 3? Greenwood/Martial/Rashford or Mahrez/Aguero/Sterling or Salah/Firmino/Mane or Bale/Kane/Son or Ziyech/Werner/Pulisic. That United front 3 have accomplished nothing in senior football and none had even established themselves as starters until Ole took over.

Bruno has been fantastic under Ole. How many other EPL clubs (or top European teams) were chasing him? Is he an outstanding top class elite European footballer or playing above himself in the United set up?

I think Pochettino is a great coach. He regularly came to Old Trafford with Southampton and outplayed United. Fergie always gave them great credit. He also did a great job at Spurs. He improved Kane and Eriksen significantly and even made Dele Alli look like a footballer.

But it's not in any way certain that any good coach will come in and improve the performance of this team. The team is inconsistent because they have instinctive players who are naturally inconsistent.

United's only strategy at the moment is to return to the Fergie way. It may not be a good strategy but it's all they have. If they replace Ole with Pochettino, they have nothing.
 
Gopher Brown said:
It’s bullshit and doesn’t find the best candidate for the job, merely a vanity pick.
Click to expand...
Neither does reading someone's CV and asking people "what would you say are your weaknesses?". Recruitment isn't about past achievements, it's about identifying someone who has the skillset for your vision and fit culturally.
 
crossy1686 said:
Neither does reading someone's CV and asking people "what would you say are your weaknesses?". Recruitment isn't about past achievements, it's about identifying someone who has the skillset for your vision and fit culturally.
Click to expand...
Which is why headhunting is a stupid idea.
 
Unlike at various points in the past there are no truly outstanding candidates available - you don‘t have a pep or klopp carrying out a sabbatical and waiting for the right offer to come along.

The choices therefore lie between a more experienced manager who might stabilise things for a period like an allegri (if you’re willing to put up with cagey, cautious, highly tactical and somewhat old-fashioned football which involves grinding out results consistently) versus a younger German alternative who is tuned into the current tactical zeitgeist of high lines, aggressive press, vertical play, 4-3-3s, inverted wingers, high fullbacks, keeper sweeping behind, etc.

Pochettino’s style is difficult to define for me. I don’t think he’ll suddenly transform his record of having not translated periods of pretty play and consistency into actual trophies when he’s nearly 50. He’d certainly be an improvement on ole, but whether he would take united any further than he took Spurs remains open to debate for me.

If I was a united fan, I’d be targeting nagelsmann and then giving him time, editorial independence and resources to see if he can build something. There’s always a risk he could turn out to be like BR at Liverpool or AVB at Chelsea, but I wouldn’t bet against him transforming himself into a klopp type figure. And the football would be excellent to watch.
 
POF said:
Ole has his faults but this sort of thing is incredibly naive.

This front 3 that is "exciting as it gets" all had career best seasons under Ole last season. Martial and Rashford have improved significantly under Ole and he managed Greenwood's step up to the first team exceptionally well. Not pushing him when he wasn't ready despite having no other decent options showed long term thinking.

When you have such a young inexperienced attack, it's no surprise that you have an inconsistent team. That's the trade off when you play youth. Great in the long run but you need a manager willing to sacrifice instant success.

If you look at accomplishments and tangible achievements in senior football, which is the best (or most exciting) front 3? Greenwood/Martial/Rashford or Mahrez/Aguero/Sterling or Salah/Firmino/Mane or Bale/Kane/Son or Ziyech/Werner/Pulisic. That United front 3 have accomplished nothing in senior football and none had even established themselves as starters until Ole took over.

Bruno has been fantastic under Ole. How many other EPL clubs (or top European teams) were chasing him? Is he an outstanding top class elite European footballer or playing above himself in the United set up?

I think Pochettino is a great coach. He regularly came to Old Trafford with Southampton and outplayed United. Fergie always gave them great credit. He also did a great job at Spurs. He improved Kane and Eriksen significantly and even made Dele Alli look like a footballer.

But it's not in any way certain that any good coach will come in and improve the performance of this team. The team is inconsistent because they have instinctive players who are naturally inconsistent.

United's only strategy at the moment is to return to the Fergie way. It may not be a good strategy but it's all they have. If they replace Ole with Pochettino, they have nothing.
Click to expand...
Asking to be coached better is naive?

You do understand saying the front 3 are, ‘as exciting as it gets’ isn’t calling them ‘the best attack in the prem’.

“United's only strategy at the moment is to return to the Fergie way.” yet you point out others naivety.

You’re correct there’s no guarantee a good coach can come in & improve this team but I’d say a good coach has a far greater chance at doing better than OgS has/is.
 
I love poch but hard to deny it would be another major change in direction.

Pogba martial greenwood maguire not likely to see much football. If poch came in tomorrow and everyone was fit it would be Fred mctominay Bruno rashford James and cavani trying and probably succeeding in running extreme long distances over 90 mins. And not clear that Bruno can close down effectively at all, just wouldn't expect him to be dropped right away as we don't have many options.

Poch maybe my fave prem manager of the last ten years but is it really smart to go a different direction again, is there no manager out there that can come in and utilise all the talent we have and the young talent we are bringing through
 
Can't say for sure.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
May be you should be worry to your own manager how your current manager keep getting his butt spanked by the manager you don’t feel threat. Fact is that the exact date & month last year, you were 10 points ahead of us but somehow this manager you don’t feel threat actually managed to close the big gaps and finished higher than you end of the season. And right now United is only 5 points less with Chelsea anew also a game less to catch up.
Click to expand...

Yeesh, sensitive much? Fact is I'd be far more worried about United with Pochettino in charge. I suspect this opinion is pretty much unanimous amongst rival supporters.
 
If we sack Ole I hope we go for Nagelsmann, but we MUST also go after Ragnick as our DOF. We need to change they way this club is run.

If Nagelsmann's a success we have a 33 year old manager who could stay on as a manager for 30+ years if things turn out well.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Yeesh, sensitive much? Fact is I'd be far more worried about United with Pochettino in charge. I suspect this opinion is pretty much unanimous amongst rival supporters.
Click to expand...
This goes both ways though. Rival supporters would also be far more worried about Chelsea - especially with the financial investment you have just had - with a better manager than Lampard in charge. I find it strange how Chelsea fans feel the need to ridicule Ole at United when their own manager and previous results hardly fill anyone with confidence.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Asking to be coached better is naive?

You do understand saying the front 3 are, ‘as exciting as it gets’ isn’t calling them ‘the best attack in the prem’.

“United's only strategy at the moment is to return to the Fergie way.” yet you point out others naivety.

You’re correct there’s no guarantee a good coach can come in & improve this team but I’d say a good coach has a far greater chance at doing better than OgS has/is.
Click to expand...

There have been some significant improvements in player performance. It's naive to suggest "they're not being coached" and any new coach can get more out of them.

Mourinho is a far more successful and experienced coach than Ole and Rashford and Martial were 3rd and 4th choice attackers in his squad. That team was far less dangerous offensively than this one.

Look at the options for the front 3. Under Jose the team was not dangerous offensively and he bemoaned the lack of quality. Since then they lost an £80m striker and the highest paid player in the club's history and replaced them with 2 stop gaps from semi retirement and Dan James. The fact United's front 3 looks exciting is in part down to the quality and improvement they've shown under Ole.

It's not been all bad under Ole. I think he will lose his job but more due to his inability to handle the pressure rather than a lack of coaching.
 
POF said:
There have been some significant improvements in player performance. It's naive to suggest "they're not being coached" and any new coach can get more out of them.
Click to expand...
why even bother arguing with someone that says that 'they aren't coached'? This person is telling you they know as much about football as a five year old when they say this, probably the same group of guys that said LVG and Mourinho 'guaranteed success'.

there are moderate and quality arguments to be had on this forum, but it isn't with people that believe players 'aren't coached' and just hammered a CL finalist and CL semi finalist back to back
 
I would much prefer Allegri or that Ajax dude, but at this stage, I would probably be okay with Moyes if this agony ends. So yes, I would be quite happy with Poch (despite his shortcomings, including the big elephant in the room that he couldn't win a trophy in a decade of managing). He is a far superior manager to our current one.

Of course, we also need a football structure at the club which at the moment does not exist. That would help us in manager-transitions and hopefully, the club and the fans start realizing that a manager is just another employee, not a God that the club needs to worship.
 
POF said:
There have been some significant improvements in player performance. It's naive to suggest "they're not being coached" and any new coach can get more out of them.
Click to expand...
Crashoutcassius said:
why even bother arguing with someone that says that 'they aren't coached'? This person is telling you they know as much about football as a five year old when they say this, probably the same group of guys that said LVG and Mourinho 'guaranteed success'.

there are moderate and quality arguments to be had on this forum, but it isn't with people that believe players 'aren't coached' and just hammered a CL finalist and CL semi finalist back to back
Click to expand...
As to not get personal [I wrote something rather offensive initially] let’s get back to what’s been written lads.

Asking for better coaching does not equate to saying they’re not being coached.

So come on lads, let’s play the game. . . where did I say they weren’t being coached? They quite obviously are being rather badly; so there ends that non-existent high horse you jumped on.

It’s unequivocal that there are better coaches in the world @POF you said it’s no guarantee a ‘good coach’ improves things & I agreed but don’t argue about something I never said.

The level of lunacy on this forums knows no bounds :lol:

Who the hell mentioned LvG & Mourinho, quite simply the ramblings of a cretin @Crashoutcassius . You’re quite right there are moderate & quality arguments on this forum there’s also idiots that don’t read posts & get het up over things that weren’t written. Now jog on.
 
I don't think that Pochettino is the answer, but he is definitely an answer to the question, "who is a better manager than Solskjaer?"
 
If Poch does become the next manager I hope to hell they don’t push any of the coaches on him. Give the man a fighting chance at least.
 
Vooon said:
If we sack Ole I hope we go for Nagelsmann, but we MUST also go after Ragnick as our DOF. We need to change they way this club is run.

If Nagelsmann's a success we have a 33 year old manager who could stay on as a manager for 30+ years if things turn out well.
Click to expand...

I know the result flatters us but the Utd hierarchy would have doubts about appointing him after that
 
I’ve never thought Poch was the answer, but at this point I’d take him because it couldn’t possibly be any worse.
 
No.

Poch does not do well under pressure, so that fact alone should eliminate him from the equation.

It doesn't matter any other attributes he may have, if he was so defensive with the mild criticism he got at Spurs, how on earth is he going to cope at United? Plus reports are he wants to be 100% in control - that's a big mistake for us to continually make. A manager needs to earn that privilege - not have it handed to him without anything to back him up.
 
POF said:
Ole has his faults but this sort of thing is incredibly naive.

This front 3 that is "exciting as it gets" all had career best seasons under Ole last season. Martial and Rashford have improved significantly under Ole and he managed Greenwood's step up to the first team exceptionally well. Not pushing him when he wasn't ready despite having no other decent options showed long term thinking.

When you have such a young inexperienced attack, it's no surprise that you have an inconsistent team. That's the trade off when you play youth. Great in the long run but you need a manager willing to sacrifice instant success.

If you look at accomplishments and tangible achievements in senior football, which is the best (or most exciting) front 3? Greenwood/Martial/Rashford or Mahrez/Aguero/Sterling or Salah/Firmino/Mane or Bale/Kane/Son or Ziyech/Werner/Pulisic. That United front 3 have accomplished nothing in senior football and none had even established themselves as starters until Ole took over.

Bruno has been fantastic under Ole. How many other EPL clubs (or top European teams) were chasing him? Is he an outstanding top class elite European footballer or playing above himself in the United set up?

I think Pochettino is a great coach. He regularly came to Old Trafford with Southampton and outplayed United. Fergie always gave them great credit. He also did a great job at Spurs. He improved Kane and Eriksen significantly and even made Dele Alli look like a footballer.

But it's not in any way certain that any good coach will come in and improve the performance of this team. The team is inconsistent because they have instinctive players who are naturally inconsistent.

United's only strategy at the moment is to return to the Fergie way. It may not be a good strategy but it's all they have. If they replace Ole with Pochettino, they have nothing.
Click to expand...
Sorry but this is nonsense, you can't base the entire strategy of a top six side on returning to the Fergie way when you don't have a manager as talented as Fergie in the first place. Haven't we seen this pathetic attempt before with Moyes?

A lot of time we underestimate just how great Ferguson was and think that we can recreate something along those lines deliberately. I don't think we can and it's time to move on as an institution by bringing in people who can plant seeds for a new philosophy that takes into account who we are as a club and what we need to do to get to where we think we belong.

Ole has done great work with Rashford, Martial and Greenwood but let's not kid ourselves and ignore that both are young players and they are bound to improve as they mature. I'd say Martial and Rashford had regressed under Mourinho because he just wasn't inclined to nurture young players but when LVG left those two, whilst incredibly young, were better players than what Ole eventually inherited.

As for the subject of this thread, Pochettino, I am not too enthused with the idea of him taking over because I have doubts over his style of play. Yes his teams press well and move the ball around quite well but I just think there was something lacking in his attacking play and results against top six sides weren't the greatest, if I remember correctly.

If it was up to me I'd look at Ten Hag, Rose, the Southampton guy and Allegri but I think we have bigger issues regarding recruitment particularly the ability to spot and successfully sign players that represent value. Recruitment also encompasses the appointment of managers and coaches and if Ole is sacked that would be a fourth consecutive managerial appointment that results in failure.
 
Lentwood said:
It sounds ridiculous but I was impressed with Nagelsmann despite the 0-5 defeat. They really took the game to us for 75mins and you could see they are incredibly well coached (up until the 76th minute!)

Pochettino for me would be an improvement on Ole in terms of coaching/tactical ability but I’m not convinced he’s the right calibre.

There must be somebody available in Europe who has better credentials than Poch?
Click to expand...
I was impressed by his football. He clearly is a progressive manager and his teams are much better than the sum of its parts. Problem is he is too naive at the moment. In a few years when he has overcome this aspect he will be knocking on the doors of most big jobs. Until then we probably can't take the risk.
 
united_99 said:
This goes both ways though. Rival supporters would also be far more worried about Chelsea - especially with the financial investment you have just had - with a better manager than Lampard in charge. I find it strange how Chelsea fans feel the need to ridicule Ole at United when their own manager and previous results hardly fill anyone with confidence.
Click to expand...

I agree! That's a perfectly reasonable position to take.

Also it's hardly ridiculing to say that someone else would fill me with more dread, is it? It's not like I've said anything over the top here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.