Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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Already debunked, the vaccine approval was nothing to do with brexit we applied EU emergency rules. I'm sure you must have come across this?
The weirdest thing is that the UK actually followed the exact same process as the EMA. It seems like they just benefited from having closer contacts with Pfizer/BioNTech - or maybe the EC approval that has to follow EMA's conclusions is taken time. (As Canada also approved the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine today.) I discussed it here:
The European Medicines Agency (EMA - which was located in London before Brexit, but is now in Amsterdam) has a page on the authorization process:

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/about-us/what-we-do/authorisation-medicines

In short, companies that want to sell new medicine that is not generic and requires a prescription in the EU need to get it assessed by the EMA. The Agency then provides a recommendation to the European Commission which decides on approvals. Once that's been granted, the product can be sold in all EU countries, plus Iceland, Liechtenstein, and Norway. So nothing to do with Brussels summits or political games (a ridiculous idea for medicine anyway). They have a nice little infograph explaining why a centralized process is beneficial:

centralised-procedure.jpg


I haven't read any arguments on the vaccine process, but I would think that approving the vaccining centrally makes sense. The EMA exists already, why not use it? Also, this creates fairness among member states; no advantage to countries with greater approval process capacity. Plus, no need to add burden to the current work of individual countries by having a few dozen individual approval processes. Finally, given all the conspiracy theories out there and existing vaccine hesitancy, it seems more secure to me to use the known procedure, rather than fuelling suspicion or increasing safety concerns by expiditing the approval process.

Interestingly, as it turns out, the British Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) seems to have followed the exact same process as the EMA. Which provides another reason against countries using individual processes: why go there is they're using the same method anyway?) This CNN article discusses exactly that:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/uk/uk-pfizer-vaccine-approval-gbr-intl/index.html

While they keep mentioning this rolling review of the MHRA and how it is only used to expedite approvals in emergency situations, they say that the EMA also used it and even started at the same time. So there is actually no difference there. The only unique explanation I see is someone's suggestion that Pfizer/BioNTech would have worked particularly closely with the MHRA, thus allowing it to move more quickly than others.

So, why did the UK go it alone? Maybe they knew they could make these Pfizer/BioNTech contacts work for them. Or maybe it's just in the spirit of Brexit. But in the end, it seems they really just did the same thing as the EU - except on their own.
 
The weirdest thing is that the UK actually followed the exact same process as the EMA. It seems like they just benefited from having closer contacts with Pfizer/BioNTech - or maybe the EC approval that has to follow EMA's conclusions is taken time. (As Canada also approved the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine today.) I discussed it here:

IIRC, the difference is the amount of samples tested.
 
IIRC, the difference is the amount of samples tested.
Just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on that? I thought these agencies only validated the test results - but that sounds a little superficial and anyway, I'm pretty much a layman on this.
 
I had the misfortune earlier of catching an interview of IDS calling the EU's demands stupid.
 
Just out of curiosity, could you elaborate on that? I thought these agencies only validated the test results - but that sounds a little superficial and anyway, I'm pretty much a layman on this.

I should have said evaluated instead of tested, if I'm not mistaken the difference is the amount of data analyzed.
 
I should have said evaluated instead of tested, if I'm not mistaken the difference is the amount of data analyzed.
Ah OK, that's more in line with what I've been reading, yeah.

I should look up some more details. I've gotten curious now. :)
 
Sounds like the talks haven't gone well. Not really a surprise.
 
This one of the insights not everyone understands, or indeed admits, that Brexit has never been about trade/business/economics its always only ever been about politics, sovereignty in particular. The question now is it what price has to be paid for that sovereignty, who will pay it and how will that sovereignty be used in the future? Some might argue that the UK Governments ability to independently approve and introduce the new Covid-19 vaccine as quickly as it has as an example of our new found sovereignty.

Business people however will always do what is best for their business, or they perceive as being best, that will not change with or without Brexit.
You honestly still believe this?

You may need to find some different sources of information.
 
Upcoming run on the shops?

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...u-fail-agree-brexit-no-deal-shortages-tariffs

Tesco warns of higher prices if UK and EU fail to agree Brexit deal


Shoppers face temporary shortages of some fresh foods and higher prices if the UK fails to strike a Brexit deal with the EU, the chairman of Tesco has warned. John Allan said a no-deal Brexit would trigger tariffs, “which can be quite substantial on some food items”.

“Those almost inevitably are going to lead to higher prices and I think if we go out on no-deal basis that is unavoidable,” Allan told Bloomberg TV.

The chairman of Britain’s biggest supermarket warned that the end of the transition period could trigger temporary disruption of food imports and lead to gaps on supermarket shelves, although he urged shoppers not to panic-buy.


“We may see some shortages of fresh foods, particularly short-life fresh foods. I think that will only be for a limited period, perhaps a month or two, before we get back to normal,” Allan said.

“I don’t think there is any reason at all for any consumer to panic or panic buy at the moment. There is still going to be plenty of food in the UK – there may just be slightly restricted choice for a period of time.”
 
Upcoming run on the shops?

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...u-fail-agree-brexit-no-deal-shortages-tariffs

Tesco warns of higher prices if UK and EU fail to agree Brexit deal

Cue Brexiters rushing out to panic buy.

One very weird point - there will be queues and delays at ports temporarily- it's a regular theme from the UK press -they will somehow mysteriously vanish because......
1) Deliveries to or from the UK cease or reduce significantly or 2) They stop checking. 2) isn't happening so....
 
in a way Brexit was about sovereignty, the Tories sovereign right to give tax cuts to their old Etonian mates and deregulate the feck out of everything
 
Cue Brexiters rushing out to panic buy.

One very weird point - there will be queues and delays at ports temporarily- it's a regular theme from the UK press -they will somehow mysteriously vanish because......
1) Deliveries to or from the UK cease or reduce significantly or 2) They stop checking. 2) isn't happening so....
You're forgetting the 'technology solutions which hasn't been invented yet.
 
could there be an extension?
Yea that would keep with the whole shambolic nature of these discussions. Extension so we can watch two sides who's expectations can't be reconciled go around in circles. Wonderful idea. Are you part if Boris' team by any chance?
 
I dont understand why this deal is taking so long. Should be "one of the easiest in human history"
 
That's because that is how it was seen by many people in the UK all through the majority of the latter part of the 20th Century, I am not saying this view was right, but neither am I making this up.... and you could argue is still seen that way now, hence the Brexit vote!

Yes, but neither are you saying this view was wrong. And it isn't a subjective viewpoint but an objective fact; the claim is demonstrably false. The reason why you need to say 'contrary to what people think I think...' so often is because you parrot these falsehoods, but don't claim any ownership of them. Don't shoot the messenger, folks. You constantly speak in the non-negative, but somehow manage to avoid speaking in the positive. That's not what I think, but by the way, here's what some other people think about that. You dance around the issues with an air of whimsy, but it's a transparently evasive tactic to avoid defending your own views. Which oddly mirrors how many Brexit advocates have handled difficult questions on the same subjects.
 
I dont understand why this deal is taking so long. Should be "one of the easiest in human history"
It's all about our freedom to wave plastic flags about now.

If we get a deal it'll be really, really, really shit, but Boris will puff out his chest and tell us how amazing it is, the press will ask ministers one time about whether the deal is good or not and be fobbed off with a party line like "best deal in history" without any further analysis, and we'll be fighting over home grown turnips by the end of January.
 
Dominic Raab almost got a question right about geography.

Knowing what you know about this whole issue and especially the current sticking points between the two sides, can I ask you whether you think that the UK position in terms of its red lines is unreasonable?

I am not talking about the decision to leave the EU. Rather its current standpoint on the free trade negotiations.
Thanks.
 
Cue Brexiters rushing out to panic buy.

One very weird point - there will be queues and delays at ports temporarily- it's a regular theme from the UK press -they will somehow mysteriously vanish because......
1) Deliveries to or from the UK cease or reduce significantly or 2) They stop checking. 2) isn't happening so....

There's been queues and delays at ports for the last two months, I see delays for at least 8 weeks into 2021 as they work through the backlog even before they get the customs process of any (if there is one) agreement.
 
From the Guardian:
British holidaymakers will be barred from the European Union from 1 January under current Covid-19 safety restrictions, with the EU commission indicating there will be no exemption for the UK.

Only a handful of countries with low coronavirus rates are exempt from rules that prohibit nonessential visitors from outside the EU and European Economic Area (EEA) – with the UK included only until the end of the Brexit transition period.
 
There will eventually be a deal, and I don't think the Tories can afford for the public to actually realise the full impact of a cliff edge no deal Brexit.

It's probably best for the EU to hold off and throw us in a no deal scenario on the 1st of January. Let the impact of it dawn fully on the British public for 2-3 months and then take their time to get the deal they want.