Cameron got into one little referendum and the electorate got scared.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Cameron got into one little referendum and the electorate got scared.
Yes that is what you call moving the goalposts. Satisfactory and great are not synonyms. You don’t need to imagine what a great deal would be, the criteria for that was established by the people you voted for when you voted for them. Satisfactory means we fail to win many of those negotiations. We have already conceded multiple.
I’m just speaking from my own perspective. I said a ‘great deal’ is clearly a lot of bluster. Obviously no one is going to campaign to get a ‘satisfactory deal’. Just trying to separate the reality from the politics.
Or you could check. In France and Germany, the ministers for Europe are under the umbrella of respectively Le Drian and Heiko Maas, who are foreign affairs ministers. And it's the same for everyone else.
But that's rubbish.
The EU is clearly a hybrid of foreign and domestic affairs. It even encompasses your domestic currency for goodness sake.
No one is arguing what the EU is. I told you how the member states consider it, it's under the umbrella of foreign affairs ministries.
Not for every country it's not.
In Italy it's an entirely separate portfolio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Minister_of_European_Affairs
In Sweden, it's a separate minister reporting directly to the PM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_EU_Affairs_(Sweden)
In Finland the European Affairs portfolio was combined with Culture and Sport rather than Foreign Affairs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_for_European_Affairs,_Culture_and_Sport
In Czech, it's a separate portfolio: https://www.vlada.cz/en/evropske-zalezitosti/
In Ireland it's a separate minister, who reports jointly to the Taoiseach and Foreign Minister to reflect the domestic and foreign hybrid role.
I've stopped going through the rest of the countries now.
You argued with that. The comment you originally disputed wasn't about Foreign Ministries, it was:
"I also think it's a mistake to see the EU as mere 'foreign policy' - it's a hybrid of foreign and domestic affairs where it relates to the EU's exclusive competences."
And we wonder why Britain is so dysfunctional. These rags need some serious reform and regulation.
So is it a done deal?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/outline-brexit-trade-deal-reached-162948131.html
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/outline-brexit-trade-deal-reached-162948131.html
Apparently MPs from both sides have said they will work through christmas to ratify the deal if the deal can be finalised in time.
Given the development of the UK in the past 5 years that reads like satire.
To be clear, the EU is far from perfect, and some of the criticism rings true. But all of it pales in comparison to the monumentally misinformed current undertaking and the inaccountability of those involved.
Last edited:
What happened to the translation issue for the EU parliament? That's not an issue anymore?
I have no idea about that. I guess we'll know more when it's finally announced.
[
I echo your sentiments. I was never in favour of us leaving the EU but I do so hope we make a success of this. It has always seemed very strange and perverse that there are many U.K. nationals that seemed to want us to fail miserably. Such an attitude I will never understand. Wishing the U.K. to fail merely to be able to say ‘I told you so’ leaves a nasty after taste.
I echo your sentiments. I was never in favour of us leaving the EU but I do so hope we make a success of this. It has always seemed very strange and perverse that there are many U.K. nationals that seemed to want us to fail miserably. Such an attitude I will never understand. Wishing the U.K. to fail merely to be able to say ‘I told you so’ leaves a nasty after taste.
I hope Boris knows what he's signing this time. The utter fecking imbecile.
I hope so too, but its been clear to many for a very long time that there is no such thing as a 'good' deal relative to what we already had. We'll see what's in the agreement but we're still going to get the logistical shitshow the moment the customs borders go up, the added cost, inflation and loss of trade that will go along with it. It will just be lessened if there's an agreement on tarrifs.
Hopefully what we get is better than a no-deal but its gunna be real difficult feeling any sense of positivity for a long while :/
At least the pound will rally a bit if there's any kind of deal. Every little helps and all that.
The Tories in here can feck off if you think the rest of us are going to feel grateful for a lesser hell being delivered. Your bunch will deserve all the criticism coming their way when we suffer from it.
This deal is far from a compromise position between leave and remain. It's just avoided a no deal path that in reality should never exist anyway.
I look forward to all the Trump like spin we'll see. I might make a bingo card for the family.
This deal is far from a compromise position between leave and remain. It's just avoided a no deal path that in reality should never exist anyway.
I look forward to all the Trump like spin we'll see. I might make a bingo card for the family.
I am enjoying this discussion more than the football which is saying something.
So. Where are we. 30 all or duce?
Or is it new balls please....
I am certainly not a Tory. But why just them. Lots of Labour voters voted leave.
You flatterer. He is not as good as that is he.
Pleasantly surprised some sort of deal seems to be achievable.
Because it's the Tory voter base including their remainers getting in a tiff about their party being criticised. They want it swept under the carpet when it's one of the greatest acts of self-harm this country has ever done.
Leavers seem to be a bit more bold they don't care about criticism, they 'won'. Despite all of them apparently wanting a no deal of course
Hopefully the text is published soon so we can move the debate on from whether there will be a deal or no-deal to whether it's a good or bad deal.
Because it's the Tory voter base including their remainers getting in a tiff about their party being criticised. They want it swept under the carpet when it's one of the greatest acts of self-harm this country has ever done.
Leavers seem to be a bit more bold they don't care about criticism, they 'won'. Despite all of them apparently wanting a no deal of course
I absolutely agree that this whole shambles is 100% self inflicted.
The issue of being a self governing sovereign nation has emerged as the main requirement /achievement.
Ok. Well done.
But at what cost?Because to me, I really don't care about that. What I do care about is the affect on our economy and with that, the affect on jobs and people's livelihoods.
So the 8am press conference slipped to 10am and now they saying Johnson and Ursula von der Leyen are due to have a call 'shortly' and the timing of the announcement now seemingly unspecified.
Oh god, it's a 2,000+ page document, so will be plenty to sift through, with stories dribbling out from it no doubt, over the next few days. Mindful of the 'good day to bury bad news' mantra here.
Oh god, it's a 2,000+ page document, so will be plenty to sift through, with stories dribbling out from it no doubt, over the next few days. Mindful of the 'good day to bury bad news' mantra here.
I'm relying on you to read to read it Jips, it sounds 1999 pages too long for my attention span.
Me too I'm afraid. Plus we all know this is today's real big story. Jeez, the cut and thrust of the DM breaking news desk...
They were always going to announce an agreement but they used the remaining time to sort out some lesser elements. They won't let it hold up the actual deal.
Were the UK government ever going to not make this go to the last minute?
I'm still not convinced it'll go through
Believe it when I see it. Doesn't it still need like a week to be passed by EU parliament?The coming years will expose this decision as the worst act of national self harm by an advanced country in modern history.
It is a shame.
It is a shame.
Economics editor Faisal Islam writes: "Whereas the ongoing export of Ware potatoes for eating is confirmed, seed potatoes will be banned."
Industries getting savaged. Not to worry though, we're going to stay positive, cos a deal is being done, that must be positive right?
Industries getting savaged. Not to worry though, we're going to stay positive, cos a deal is being done, that must be positive right?
Imo, there's nothing like "good deal". Its between a bad deal and a worse deal. Nothing they can come up with will be as good as what we had.
seems to be a modern day attitude. Whether that’s the case in ‘real life’, or just peoples online/ internet personas is what is of real interest.
it is a bizarre attitude to have in any case, but suspect (hope), it’s less prevalent when the mask of anonymity is removed.
im not defending the government here, but most negotiations go to the wire - and in particular the EU are well known to take big decisions to the last possible minute.
I certainly don’t believe there was always going to be an agreement, although very difficult to know as you would have to see through all the posturing from both sides - and I’m not sure we will ever have a good handle on actually what happens behind the scenes without the bluster.
So we're past the predictable "no deal is likely" theatrics, now moving onto the "we won negotiations" stage. That'll probably work again, I guess.