SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Relevated said:
Say the full thing. He said he hopes they feel awful because of the death.
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Yes, and that’s not wishing death on her family. That you then tagged a staff member about it is baffling. I feel sorry for the admin, you probably tag him a dozen times a day


Ecstatic said:
As far as I'm concerned, I just accept the world as it is.

Some follow the guidelines and others are selfish/risk-taker but we are ultimately all victims of the pandemic. I can understand why people argue about mental health, economic survival, individual freedoms etc.

The solution is not to blame each other but to have a strengthened healthcare system with efficient remedies and public policies.
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I don’t disagree with what you’ve said here (although earlier you equated not wearing a mask to living your life, which is odd), but taking a flippant and irreverent comment and trying to turn it into something more is stupid.
 
calodo2003 said:
Appreciate the reply, but not levying rightful blame on those who are actually spreading the virus completely misses the point.

Many governments have shied away from true lockdowns. Looking back, these draconian steps should have been enforced in the vast majority of countries, especially our two. The challenge there is that the populace would blame the governments for such stringent methods & potentially uprise which would have caused its own set of problems.

So, you’re saying that even though 99% of the world’s population who are aware of Covid & its challenges still shouldn’t be held to account for the exponential spread of the virus? That it’s governments that should shoulder the majority of the blame? Even when irrefutable evidence of the damage the virus causes is potentially broadcast to people every minute? If so, that’s where my ‘childish’ statement enters. To believe that fairytale borders on abject delusion.

In my opinion, there’s probably two paths to lessen the chaos of the virus before the vaccines really take positive effect (if they ever fully do) - either the death of people who disregard the mountain of evidence foisted upon them minute but minute & change their behaviors or governments truly lock down societies. Which one would you prefer? Which one would ultimately be easier & less damaging to enact?
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I'm not saying anyone can avoid personal responsibility just that government should be there to assist them to do so. And the US and UK governments have largely abdicated proper responsibility with deadly and chaotic responses.

Look at where governments have been decisive and the messaging clear? It has worked very well.

And the people who die aren't necessarily those who ignore the rules so the first part of your argument is moot. And I wish the UK government had gone into full lock-down with closed international borders in March. Countries like NZ and Australia who have nearly eradicated are doing ok economically compared to those who didn't lock down because "the economy". Nothing is consequence free but full lockdowns do seem to have been the best tactic. In Australia the suicide rate has improved by 5% and hospitals are still operating as normal with routine tests and procedures. Things are far from normal but still much better than most other places.
 
Government’s fault, plain as day...

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Wibble said:
I'm not saying anyone can avoid personal responsibility just that government should be there to assist them to do so. And the US and UK governments have largely abdicated proper responsibility with deadly and chaotic responses.

Look at where governments have been decisive and the messaging clear? It has worked very well.

And the people who die aren't necessarily those who ignore the rules so the first part of your argument is moot. And I wish the UK government had gone into full lock-down with closed international borders in March. Countries like NZ and Australia who have nearly eradicated are doing ok economically compared to those who didn't lock down because "the economy". Nothing is consequence free but full lockdowns do seem to have been the best tactic. In Australia the suicide rate has improved by 5% and hospitals are still operating as normal with routine tests ad procedures. Things are far from normal but still much better than most other places.
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Totally agree here. Eastern countries & AUS / NZ should be held as examples to how to have handled the pandemic.
 
calodo2003 said:
Government’s fault, plain as day...

fa5M8qjDUe.jpeg
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Who are you arguing with? Nobody has said people haven’t been selfish twats. What do you think the solution is if we absolve the Government of all responsibility? Who else actually has the power to do anything about these people but isn’t?
 
Yeah this isn't a one or the other situation. The governments response to the pandemic has been terrible and so has members of the general public.

Not rocket science.
 
acnumber9 said:
Who are you arguing with? Nobody has said people haven’t been selfish twats. What do you think the solution is if we absolve the Government of all responsibility? Who else actually has the power to do anything about these people but isn’t?
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People have the power not to act this stupidly.

I’ve never said that government is without blame here. Many on here (& in the world) won’t look to rightfully blame people for the continued spread.
 
acnumber9 said:
Who are you arguing with? Nobody has said people haven’t been selfish twats. What do you think the solution is if we absolve the Government of all responsibility? Who else actually has the power to do anything about these people but isn’t?
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Yeah it's like leaving tax evasion criminals to go Scott free.

Without big consequences for breaking the rules, you can't expect people to comply.

Specially, you can't erxpect people to comply when the same governmet people making the rules, break the rules. My right wing governmet in Chile, is very similar to the UK one. Bunch of millionarioes who break the rules on a daily basis, and expect people to obey the stay at home orders.
 
calodo2003 said:
People have the power not to act this stupidly.

I’ve never said that government is without blame here. Many on here (& in the world) won’t look to rightfully blame people for the continued spread.
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Yes they do. And when they don’t exercise it then it’s up to the Government to intervene. It wasn’t people that decided to lock down too late, it wasn’t the people that decided to keep the borders open, it wasn’t the people who sent sick people back to care homes, it wasn’t the people who told everyone it was their duty to go to the pub etc.

The Government can’t just stand by and watch people not follow the rules and then say, oh there’s nothing more we can do, it’s all their fault. They’re elected to Govern. And they’re failing.
 
George Owen said:
Yeah it's like leaving tax evasion criminals to go Scott free.

Without big consequences for breaking the rules, you can't expect people to comply.
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One would think that millions of deaths due to the virus would change people’s thinking, but it obviously hasn’t.

Harsh lockdowns & direct punitive punishment might have to be the next possible steps.
 
acnumber9 said:
Yes they do. And when they don’t exercise it then it’s up to the Government to intervene. It wasn’t people that decided to lock down too late, it wasn’t the people that decided to keep the borders open, it wasn’t the people who sent sick people back to care homes, it wasn’t the people who told everyone it was their duty to go to the pub etc.

The Government can’t just stand by and watch people not follow the rules and then say, oh there’s nothing more we can do, it’s all their fault. They’re elected to Govern. And they’re failing.
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Again, I never said the governments aren’t to blame. But there were feck ton of unknowns at play that governments couldn’t / didn’t handle well, that’s where the altruism of people should have come into play. Ive never called for governments to throw their hands up & give up either.

Governments might have to enact harsher measures in the short term, measures that will negatively affect us wherever we are. This will be a sad point in this saga, but the blame needs to be rightfully apportioned & now acted upon by governments.
 
George Owen said:
Should have been the very first step.
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Don’t disagree at all.

Governments were undoubtedly anticipating some public buy in to help limit the spread. The public is failing governments worldwide right now. In some countries (like mine), I feel the public shoulders the majority of the blame at the current time. We just had the highest day of airport traffic yesterday since the pandemic happened, higher than Thanksgiving travel.

It’s stupidity like this that will potentially cause true, actual lockdowns to be enacted. Then there will be a cry that personal liberties are being affected.

But public health does not come second to personal liberties.
 
calodo2003 said:
Again, I never said the governments aren’t to blame. But there were feck ton of unknowns at play that governments couldn’t / didn’t handle well, that’s where the altruism of people should have come into play. Ive never called for governments to throw their hands up & give up either.

Governments might have to enact harsher measures in the short term, measures that will negatively affect us wherever we are. This will be a sad point in this saga, but the blame needs to be rightfully apportioned & now acted upon by governments.
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And people did stick by the rules for the most part to begin with. Even now the majority of people are doing it.

Blame does need to be rightfully apportioned, and the majority still lies with a Government who has watched everything unfold and still refused to act.
 
Heardy said:
Hard / close to impossible to enforce when our police force is threadbare from a numbers perspective. We just don’t have the manpower to monitor / enforce anything.
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Due to years of under funding by the Government.
 
It is all very well us saying what should have happened in March/April but do we think the UK should lock-down properly now including closing international borders?

I'd guess that there is zero chance Boris will do this but interested to see what people think.
 
acnumber9 said:
And people did stick by the rules for the most part to begin with. Even now the majority of people are doing it.

Blame does need to be rightfully apportioned, and the majority still lies with a Government who has watched everything unfold and still refused to act.
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We seem to agree on quite a bit, we just differ on the apportionment or blame, historical or current. I would say that governments shoulder the majority of the historical blame for the pandemic response, people shoulder the majority of the current blame.
 
Heardy said:
Hard / close to impossible to enforce when our police force is threadbare from a numbers perspective. We just don’t have the manpower to monitor / enforce anything.
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Where’s here? UK?

If there’s one thing that my country doesn’t lack is the size of our police ranks. We could loan you thousands.
 
acnumber9 said:
Due to years of under funding by the Government.
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Sorry mate but I have to disagree here and imo that's a cheap and lazy statement to make.
Early on in 'lockdown' the government were at pains to stress the public were going to be responsible in a way to self police their own behaviour. To be treated like adults if you were. When videos circulated fir example of police moving on a woman sat on a park bench for 'exercise' the media were on it in a flash and it caused negative opinion and anger.
It would be easy for the police to hand out enforcement notices in large numbers with relatively little resources if that was the political will, but it seems to be only large gatherings that have been targeted so far.
How do you suggest the police enforce the breaches of lockdown or the tier system by the way?
I'm from York which is currently in a tier 2 area(not for long, our rates are today far higher than any of our tier 3 areas). Tonight I drove through York Centre and it was packed, packed with tourists, and packed with coach tours from Leeds. If this is representative of the rest of the UK, even 10 times the amount of police would not be able to cope with everyone.
I walked the dog around our area last night and the amount of gatherings in people's front rooms was unbelievable, honestly it's shocking. It's like a horror film unfolding in slow mo. The government have fecked up in lots of ways through this ( as have most governments), but underfunding the police is not one of them.
If I'm honest the main failing in almost every instance in my opinion is the general public and lack of common sense. Those poor people in care homes are a notible exception.
There are pages and pages of examples through this thread of people bending the rules, stretching them and downright ignoring them, people going on un needed holidays and while there giving zero fecks and when coming back not isolating.
This whole episode has been thus far an interesting yet terrifying example of human nature and blame culture.
Its the government's fault, its china's fault, why can't I do such and such when they can, etc etc.
Not having a rant at you in particular by the way, but police underfunding has feck all to do with this thread.
 
Can anyone please tell me how so many people under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
 
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NYAS said:
Can anyone please tell me how about 90% of Brits under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
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This is what i'm noticing aswell.

Sorry to hijack your post - but I am coming across more people who believe the whole thing is a hoax...an attempt to depopulate humanity and a bill gates master scheme in order to profit from a vaccine.

Could anyone share some links /material where I can educate myself more and shut down some r-tards who happen to be good friends of mine?
 
NYAS said:
Can anyone please tell me how about 90% of Brits under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
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What’s the source for that stat?
 
Rado_N said:
What’s the source for that stat?
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I should clarify: no source, it’s not a stat. It’s just the approximate proportion of people I’ve seen saying it compared to those who haven’t. I’ve edited the original post.

Have you noticed any different? That would be a breath of fresh air to be honest.
 
NYAS said:
Can anyone please tell me how about 90% of Brits under the age of 35 think the vaccine will make them infertile?

I’m baffled as to how widespread that belief is among that demographic. How has it come about? Was there some BS video that went viral about it that I missed?

Honestly this is not just a small minority of Facebook-using anti-vaxxers anymore. From what I’m seeing, it’s well on the way to becoming the predominant view.
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How big is that sample size?
 
NYAS said:
I should clarify: no source, it’s not a stat. It’s just the approximate proportion of people I’ve seen saying it compared to those who haven’t.

Have you noticed any different? That would be a breath of fresh air to be honest.
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Oh you're just chatting out your arse. Common theme in this thread.


I'm under 35, as is the vast majority of my friends and not one of my closer friends whom I've discussed the vaccine think that.

Think you're thinking of a loud minority.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
How big is that sample size?
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I’ve edited my post to clarify that it isn’t an actual statistic but was based on my anecdotal observation. Should have put that in before I posted it!

But if you’re asking me how many people I’ve seen saying that I would say about 15/20 compared to 2 people who have said they can’t wait to finally take the vaccine.
 
NYAS said:
I should clarify: no source, it’s not a stat. It’s just the approximate proportion of people I’ve seen saying it compared to those who haven’t. I’ve edited the original post.

Have you noticed any different? That would be a breath of fresh air to be honest.
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:lol:

You probably need to hang out with more sensible people.
 
NYAS said:
I should clarify: no source, it’s not a stat. It’s just the approximate proportion of people I’ve seen saying it compared to those who haven’t. I’ve edited the original post.

Have you noticed any different? That would be a breath of fresh air to be honest.
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I’ve literally never heard of it until you just posted that nonsense.
 
I’ve removed that ‘90%’ in my post as I didn’t want more people thinking it was official data. Apologies, I should have framed it differently. It is completely anecdotal.
 
worldgonemad said:
Sorry mate but I have to disagree here and imo that's a cheap and lazy statement to make.
Early on in 'lockdown' the government were at pains to stress the public were going to be responsible in a way to self police their own behaviour. To be treated like adults if you were. When videos circulated fir example of police moving on a woman sat on a park bench for 'exercise' the media were on it in a flash and it caused negative opinion and anger.
It would be easy for the police to hand out enforcement notices in large numbers with relatively little resources if that was the political will, but it seems to be only large gatherings that have been targeted so far.
How do you suggest the police enforce the breaches of lockdown or the tier system by the way?
I'm from York which is currently in a tier 2 area(not for long, our rates are today far higher than any of our tier 3 areas). Tonight I drove through York Centre and it was packed, packed with tourists, and packed with coach tours from Leeds. If this is representative of the rest of the UK, even 10 times the amount of police would not be able to cope with everyone.
I walked the dog around our area last night and the amount of gatherings in people's front rooms was unbelievable, honestly it's shocking. It's like a horror film unfolding in slow mo. The government have fecked up in lots of ways through this ( as have most governments), but underfunding the police is not one of them.
If I'm honest the main failing in almost every instance in my opinion is the general public and lack of common sense. Those poor people in care homes are a notible exception.
There are pages and pages of examples through this thread of people bending the rules, stretching them and downright ignoring them, people going on un needed holidays and while there giving zero fecks and when coming back not isolating.
This whole episode has been thus far an interesting yet terrifying example of human nature and blame culture.
Its the government's fault, its china's fault, why can't I do such and such when they can, etc etc.
Not having a rant at you in particular by the way, but police underfunding has feck all to do with this thread.
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The post you are replying to suggested that police forces in the UK have been underfunded, thus making it more challenging for forces to effectively monitor public interaction on a large scale. This is true. The Tories ensured that we had 20,000 fewer officers than we did when they entered office in 2010. Only recently have numbers started to increase again.

You’ve just gone off and ranted about something entirely unrelated.
 
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worldgonemad said:
Sorry mate but I have to disagree here and imo that's a cheap and lazy statement to make.
Early on in 'lockdown' the government were at pains to stress the public were going to be responsible in a way to self police their own behaviour. To be treated like adults if you were. When videos circulated fir example of police moving on a woman sat on a park bench for 'exercise' the media were on it in a flash and it caused negative opinion and anger.
It would be easy for the police to hand out enforcement notices in large numbers with relatively little resources if that was the political will, but it seems to be only large gatherings that have been targeted so far.
How do you suggest the police enforce the breaches of lockdown or the tier system by the way?
I'm from York which is currently in a tier 2 area(not for long, our rates are today far higher than any of our tier 3 areas). Tonight I drove through York Centre and it was packed, packed with tourists, and packed with coach tours from Leeds. If this is representative of the rest of the UK, even 10 times the amount of police would not be able to cope with everyone.
I walked the dog around our area last night and the amount of gatherings in people's front rooms was unbelievable, honestly it's shocking. It's like a horror film unfolding in slow mo. The government have fecked up in lots of ways through this ( as have most governments), but underfunding the police is not one of them.
If I'm honest the main failing in almost every instance in my opinion is the general public and lack of common sense. Those poor people in care homes are a notible exception.
There are pages and pages of examples through this thread of people bending the rules, stretching them and downright ignoring them, people going on un needed holidays and while there giving zero fecks and when coming back not isolating.
This whole episode has been thus far an interesting yet terrifying example of human nature and blame culture.
Its the government's fault, its china's fault, why can't I do such and such when they can, etc etc.
Not having a rant at you in particular by the way, but police underfunding has feck all to do with this thread.
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I’m not really making the argument that there is a lot the police can do. Merely pointing out that if it’s due to lack of numbers there’s only one place to point the finger of blame for that too.

Personally I think the Government needs to decide on a lockdown akin to that in March and tell people what are realistic goal is and how we can achieve it. And actually deliver on what they promise. It’s no surprise that people won’t buy into what they say when they lie, shift responsibility, over promise and under deliver. And a big part of any lockdown being a success will be making sure they are as efficient as they can be with the vaccine deployment.

On the subject of policing all they can do is issue heavy fines for those not following the laws established.
 
On a more positive note, I shopped within a busy city centre yesterday and compliance with the regulations was generally fantastic. It usually is, whether I am shopping in the supermarket, interacting with parents of the pupils I teach, or simply walking along a narrow path: people regularly demonstrate good manners and behave in a civilised way by allowing others past.

In truth, it’s a little tedious having to read (and listen to elsewhere) the same monotonous dribble re. widespread lack of compliance. Hear me out. Some people have an irritating (and frankly unhealthy) habit of using a handful of incidents they disapprove of as a stick to beat an entire populace with. You’re going to get the odd idiot. You’re going to get quite a few. But unless you’re living in Mordor, you should be able to pull your head out of your own arse to realise that most people are inherently decent and are trying hard (in their own awkward way) to follow the guidance as best as possible. Just look around and highlight the overwhelming number of good folk, for goodness sake. And yes, some people are going to make mistakes. It happens. If you spend your entire day looking for reasons to be angry then you’re probably going to feel that way: perhaps this might ring a few bells for some of the resident oddball ‘I-hope-they-become-seriously-unwell’ types we encounter throughout these threads...
 
Rado_N said:
I’ve literally never heard of it until you just posted that nonsense.
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Me neither.

Perhaps they are confusing it with people who die of covid no longer being able to reproduce?
 
Kag said:
On a more positive note, I shopped within a busy city centre yesterday and compliance with the regulations was generally fantastic. It usually is, whether I am shopping in the supermarket, interacting with parents of the pupils I teach, or simply walking along a narrow path: people regularly demonstrate good manners and behave in a civilised way by allowing others past.

In truth, it’s a little tedious having to read (and listen to elsewhere) the same monotonous dribble re. widespread lack of compliance. Hear me out. Some people have an irritating (and frankly unhealthy) habit of using a handful of incidents they disapprove of as a stick to beat an entire populace with. You’re going to get the odd idiot. You’re going to get quite a few. But unless you’re living in Mordor, you should be able to pull your head out of your own arse to realise that most people are inherently decent and are trying hard (in their own awkward way) to follow the guidance as best as possible. Just look around and highlight the overwhelming number of good folk, for goodness sake. And yes, some people are going to make mistakes. It happens. If you spend your entire day looking for reasons to be angry then you’re probably going to feel that way: perhaps this might ring a few bells for some of the resident oddball ‘I-hope-they-become-seriously-unwell’ types we encounter throughout these threads...
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This is pretty much what I am thinking just you had a better way of saying it.
 
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