SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

rcoobc said:
Even that has changed. Although that actually isn't the government's fault.

Evidence for virus being airbourne
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53329946

Government considering advising to keep windows open (which everyone at work was sick of me banging on about before the first lockdown)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-in-effort-to-curb-covid-19-poor-ventilation

Government urge people to keep windows open.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...e-of-ventilation-to-reduce-spread-of-covid-19

There was also stuff about not sitting "face on" with someone else, although that has largely disappeared now that we can't meet up with anyone.
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Which, on the subject, is another area where the government is badly letting people down. The three word slogan is still 'Hands', 'Face', 'Space'. Not 'don't sit in unventilated rooms you idiots'.
 
rcoobc said:
Even that has changed. Although that actually isn't the government's fault.

Evidence for virus being airbourne
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53329946

Government considering advising to keep windows open (which everyone at work was sick of me banging on about before the first lockdown)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-in-effort-to-curb-covid-19-poor-ventilation

Government urge people to keep windows open.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...e-of-ventilation-to-reduce-spread-of-covid-19

There was also stuff about not sitting "face on" with someone else, although that has largely disappeared now that we can't meet up with anyone.
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I learned back in March that I can get infected by breathing it in, touching infectious surfaces, not cleaning my hands, getting too close to people, being in crowded spaces are all good ways of catching Covid. That’s all I’ve needed to know. I see people every day that somehow either don’t know this or ignore it.
 
rcoobc said:
Let me ask you this: am I allowed to meet up with a friend to go for a cycle.

I live in Kent, tier 4. So does he.

First question am I allowed to? Second much harder question, should I?
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Has there been substantial evidence that proves there's a significant (realistic) risk you can even infect eachother let alone cause an outbreak?

If the answer is no then you absolutely should go for it, regardless of tier.
 
Volumiza said:
I learned back in March that I can get infected by breathing it in, touching infectious surfaces, not cleaning my hands, getting too close to people, being in crowded spaces are all good ways of catching Covid. That’s all I’ve needed to know. I see people every day that somehow either don’t know this or ignore it.
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You're well informed and you have been doing what me and other people have been doing which is research and using your intelligence. Some other people take what the government say literally and had groups of people on Christmas Day. Other people flout those rules directly.

I understand what you're saying, but the proof is in the numbers and unfortunately the only countries with very low figures are those that have enforceable strict measures in place. I really wish that wasn't the case and doing that has problems of its own.
 
Dancfc said:
Has there been substantial evidence that proves there's a significant (realistic) risk you can even infect eachother let alone cause an outbreak?

If the answer is no then you absolutely should go for it, regardless of tier.
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There is a very realistic risk as particles and aerosol infection can clearly occur. It is just the risk is far higher indoors. If it is legal then if you go the greater the distance between you the lower the risk.
 
Dancfc said:
Has there been substantial evidence that proves there's a significant (realistic) risk you can even infect eachother let alone cause an outbreak?

If the answer is no then you absolutely should go for it, regardless of tier.
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I think, when road cycling, the cyclist in front could definitely splash the cyclist behind with water from his water bottle by squirting it forwards (if that makes sense). By that logic, yeah cyclists are breathing each other's aerosol particles.

But we exclusively do mountain biking which has lots of curves and difficult sections that require a larger gap between riders. So I think that the chance there is close to zero.

Still, social contact and exercise are important in their own right. I would put both as a very high priority, even as the rest of society gets shut down (work, etc). The risk of exposure that one has when running or cycling with a friend I think is probably worth taking. (Especially when compared to, say, running by yourself when a load of other people are doing the same thing anyway).

Others may disagree.
 
Volumiza said:
I completely disagree. For all the faults of Boris, and this government, the messages have not been mixed in their basic form since March.

Keep your distance
Don’t breath the same air
Don’t touch the same things
Don’t be in large, close knit groups

Blaming the government is the laziest form of nonsense. How much better would we be off if Jeremy Corbyn had won the election or if Kier Starmer was running things?

People know, they absolutely know what to do and what this virus is but they do what they want anyway. Gatherings, no masks and the countless fools that continue to think holidays are necessary.

I have played by the rules just like you but I see people who don’t every single day. It is their fault, not Boris’s. They would be the same idiots under any government.
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For me this is nothing to do with parties, Corbyn or Starker probably wouldn't have done better and Corbyn certainly would never have won my vote.

However, this government has been so unclear with messaging that it undermines the importance of the rules. You can't on the one hand claim every life matters and we must follow the rules and then on the other defend you aid for outright breaking the rules and then say the rules can be all be scrapped for Christmas, then late in the day changing you mind again.

If the rules over winter had remained as they were in November, sure people wouldn't have been happy but I guarantee compliance would be higher.

University's are also a case in point. For the vast majority of courses online learning would be absolutely fine, but the powers that be want to protect the 'student experience' and ultimately justify the absurd tuition fees so they plough on even though it is probably the single biggest hotspot alongside secondary schools.

The irony is in flip flopping as much as they are they are doing far more harm to both health and the economy.
 
lilcurt said:
For me this is nothing to do with parties, Corbyn or Starker probably wouldn't have done better and Corbyn certainly would never have won my vote.

However, this government has been so unclear with messaging that it undermines the importance of the rules. You can't on the one hand claim every life matters and we must follow the rules and then on the other defend you aid for outright breaking the rules and then say the rules can be all be scrapped for Christmas, then late in the day changing you mind again.

If the rules over winter had remained as they were in November, sure people wouldn't have been happy but I guarantee compliance would be higher.

University's are also a case in point. For the vast majority of courses online learning would be absolutely fine, but the powers that be want to protect the 'student experience' and ultimately justify the absurd tuition fees so they plough on even though it is probably the single biggest hotspot alongside secondary schools.

The irony is in flip flopping as much as they are they are doing far more harm to both health and the economy.
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I'm sure a lot of Universities did move a lot of teaching online by themselves, even if the government flip-flopped on this too.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/english-universities-told-move-teaching-online-9-december
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-university-coronavirus-outbreaks-online-learning-a4565036.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52647601

Still, I think it would have been very helpful if there had been proper guidance. If they had said "aim to allow all courses to be 90% online, to allow students to stay at home (i.e even their family home).
 
lilcurt said:
For me this is nothing to do with parties, Corbyn or Starker probably wouldn't have done better and Corbyn certainly would never have won my vote.

However, this government has been so unclear with messaging that it undermines the importance of the rules. You can't on the one hand claim every life matters and we must follow the rules and then on the other defend you aid for outright breaking the rules and then say the rules can be all be scrapped for Christmas, then late in the day changing you mind again.

If the rules over winter had remained as they were in November, sure people wouldn't have been happy but I guarantee compliance would be higher.

University's are also a case in point. For the vast majority of courses online learning would be absolutely fine, but the powers that be want to protect the 'student experience' and ultimately justify the absurd tuition fees so they plough on even though it is probably the single biggest hotspot alongside secondary schools.

The irony is in flip flopping as much as they are they are doing far more harm to both health and the economy.
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Indeed, another very obvious and utterly avoidable failure of the government. If we really want to follow it through, a failure of the government going all the way back to Cameron and the broken tuition fee model.
 
Virgil said:
[


If we had a system where there was the remotest concept of personal responsibility then over half the citizens would be locked up. Trouble is our culture has degenerated to the point where we can always absolve our appalling behaviour by saying the fault lies with someone else. For example does it really need Boris or anyone else to tell us that we should stay local before we realise it’s the logical and sensible thing to do.
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I think this pandemic has highlighted the need for compotent, consistent government and media communications. This is a key element in decision making for any personal responsibility and enables compliance from a higher percentage of the population.
 
I don't know about the reporting elsewhere.. but the news channels dont have much else to talk about.. so every little story is presented as a huge deal.

There is a lot of conflicting , over the top reporting going on.. We have had a dozen vaccines ready for imminent launch over the last 5 months.

Quite a few (mostly older) people I know basically take the official government stand as the way to go because there are daily conflicting stories on TV ..

A clear message from the government is very important.. I don't understand how anyone can argue against that.. Not doing so is a big failure .
 
Don't forget that we're slowly moving into Phase 4 of the Dipshit Parade - people walking around without masks saying "it's fine, I'VE had the vaccine."
 
golden_blunder said:
Coming back to that argument about primary schools again



https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1229/1186804-covid19-ireland/

@Pogue Mahone what do you reckon?
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Two weeks before the holidays we got a text from the school saying one of our kid's classes was going to be WFH for a week because someone in his class had tested positive for Covid. BUT they were expected in the following week for the last two days. We then got a call the next morning asking why his sister wasn't in school and why I had left them a message saying neither wouldn't be back until after the holidays.

I told them that it was mental for them to expect us to send him to school for the last two days in a week's time when his class might be rife with cases, and it was downright stupid to think that we would be sending his sister, who could possibly have it if he had been infected in his class, so that she could possibly spread it to her class as well.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Don't forget that we're slowly moving into Phase 4 of the Dipshit Parade - people walking around without masks saying "it's fine, I'VE had the vaccine."
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Something to look forward to, along with “I know whats best for my family and we wont be getting vaccinated its too risky.”
 
Perfect time to lockdown?

I wonder if they've been waiting for this to help with peoples acceptance of any incoming lockdown as there is now an obvious goal at the end of it.

Would be much easier to convince people now with the news of this vaccine.
 
Pexbo said:
Jesus. Just 41 years old too and no mention of underlying health conditions. Hopefully it’s a clear enough message to wise the feck up. RIP



Excellent, have we got an idea of schedule yet?
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I heard it was going to start being rolled out from 4th Jan
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Two weeks before the holidays we got a text from the school saying one of our kid's classes was going to be WFH for a week because someone in his class had tested positive for Covid. BUT they were expected in the following week for the last two days. We then got a call the next morning asking why his sister wasn't in school and why I had left them a message saying neither wouldn't be back until after the holidays.

I told them that it was mental for them to expect us to send him to school for the last two days in a week's time when his class might be rife with cases, and it was downright stupid to think that we would be sending his sister, who could possibly have it if he had been infected in his class, so that she could possibly spread it to her class as well.
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The school were simply following policy. It’s worth remembering that when communicating with admin staff.

Also, your child’s school will have only requested that pupils return after they had isolated in line with PHE guidance.

For what it’s worth, with two days to go it was likely DVD time anyway. Your child wouldn’t have missed anything too important.
 
Kag said:
The school were simply following policy. It’s worth remembering that when communicating with admin staff.

Also, your child’s school will have only requested that pupils return after they had isolated in line with PHE guidance.

For what it’s worth, with two days to go it was likely DVD time anyway. Your child wouldn’t have missed anything too important.
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I should point out that I know the staff quite well so we were actually laughing about it during the call.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Two weeks before the holidays we got a text from the school saying one of our kid's classes was going to be WFH for a week because someone in his class had tested positive for Covid. BUT they were expected in the following week for the last two days. We then got a call the next morning asking why his sister wasn't in school and why I had left them a message saying neither wouldn't be back until after the holidays.

I told them that it was mental for them to expect us to send him to school for the last two days in a week's time when his class might be rife with cases, and it was downright stupid to think that we would be sending his sister, who could possibly have it if he had been infected in his class, so that she could possibly spread it to her class as well.
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Too right lad. Glad to see some common sense!
 
lilcurt said:
For me this is nothing to do with parties, Corbyn or Starker probably wouldn't have done better and Corbyn certainly would never have won my vote.

However, this government has been so unclear with messaging that it undermines the importance of the rules. You can't on the one hand claim every life matters and we must follow the rules and then on the other defend you aid for outright breaking the rules and then say the rules can be all be scrapped for Christmas, then late in the day changing you mind again.

If the rules over winter had remained as they were in November, sure people wouldn't have been happy but I guarantee compliance would be higher.

University's are also a case in point. For the vast majority of courses online learning would be absolutely fine, but the powers that be want to protect the 'student experience' and ultimately justify the absurd tuition fees so they plough on even though it is probably the single biggest hotspot alongside secondary schools.

The irony is in flip flopping as much as they are they are doing far more harm to both health and the economy.
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I get you, and there’s not one post of mine absolving the government for their decision making, not one, and me putting blame largely on people does not constitute me defending the government. I am just saying I feel more annoyed with the behaviour of people disregarding masks, social distancing and restrictions that we all know exist than I do with the government.

Boris has been dreadful. He’s a good times Prime Minister and in this situation we need someone who isn’t scared of making big decisions that will make people unhappy. I know this, most on here know this but that doesn’t mean that we, or any other people should not wear masks, should flout social distancing or meet with multiple other households as I’ve been seeing with my own eyes.

We know what we should be doing in essence. We do. Most of us are doing this and I’m pretty sure it’s not people like me that is causing the spread of this virus. It is the people who are flouting the rules that we all know we should be abiding by regardless of the mixed messaging.

I would never have relaxed the restrictions for 5 days over Christmas. I’d have looked at the numbers In late November and early December and told people Christmas isn’t happening. It was clear we would have to curtail Christmas so my family made arrangements accordingly. Someone on here earlier gave a ‘can I?’ ‘Should I?’ scenario, so ‘Boris says I can relax over Christmas’ but anyone with a grain of sense actually thought ‘hmmm, I can, but should I?’

Same with holidays. ‘I can’ but actually ‘should I?’. I’ve not even thought about booking a holiday. I think it’s stupid.

Boris stupidly said everyone could relax, so what, if someone stupid tells you to do something stupid, you do it?

I live somewhere where a lot of people gather. I don’t moan about this, I’m lucky to live here and acknowledge that but it does give me a good view into the world right now and there are a heck of a lot of very stupid and selfish people living in it that clearly don’t care about catching or transmitting the virus. These are the focus of my annoyance and anger, not the government. The government are just doing a bad job.
 
United Hobbit said:
And then you see this happening, hope they were fined:

So much for tier 4 meaning stay in your local area...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55474533
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Doesn't supprise me in the slightest, until last week we were tier 1, and had people from the 4 counties bordering us trying ti get into the pubs here despite all being tier 3 or higher. The door staff were checking id, and anyone who's address wasn't a herefordshire address was turned away, including two coach loads of people from South Wales.
 
I've just read that a nurse in California, vaccinated over a week ago, has tested positive for Covid 19.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/us-...after-receiving-pfizer-vaccine-report-2345549

I'm far from being an expert but I thought vaccines don't prevent a virus from entering the body. They work by triggering our bodies immune system with the appropriate response.

The vaccine is not 100% anyway and the nurse, working in a high exposure environment would not have yet have the full benefit.
 
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