2021 American Civil War

The Firestarter said:
I was under the impression that anonymity of vote was a basic requirement for a democracy.
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I can see the issue with it, but I think the idea is it is anonymous and the sacks are only opened in fraud investigations with specific ballots taken out. To track a person from the vote you would need the ballot number, the paper linking the number to the vote registration number and link that to your name and the ballot paper itself. The papers are destroyed after one year.

It does stop fraud after-the-event, but that's not saying it's great.
 
Balljy said:
I can see the issue with it, but I think the idea is it is anonymous and the sacks are only opened in fraud investigations with specific ballots taken out. To track a person from the vote you would need the ballot number, the paper linking the number to the vote registration number and link that to your name and the ballot paper itself. The papers are destroyed after one year.

It does stop fraud after-the-event, but that's not saying it's great.
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But it's clearly not anonymous since a specific ballot is linked to a specific person.
 
JPRouve said:
But it's clearly not anonymous since a specific ballot is linked to a specific person.
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Badly worded. I'm agreeing, it's possible for a government official to link a ballot to a person for 1 year.
 
FrankDrebin said:
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@langster, does this bring back any memories?
 
Balljy said:
Badly worded. I'm agreeing, it's possible for a government official to link a ballot to a person for 1 year.
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Or more because there is a difference between what governments are supposed to do and what they actually do. The moment you give them the ballot, they are effectively in full control of it, from the point of view of a potential dictatorship that system is obviously terrible.
 
Frosty said:
To be honest I have no problems with the Government requiring ID to vote, as long as they provide for it and pay for it. Otherwise it is just a way of ensuring the poor are not able to vote, and it is no coincidence that a lot of them do not vote Tory.
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This is the crux of it, yes. Requiring ID that some people simply do not have the time or money to aquire disenfranchised thousands of people in US elections.

Thanks for saving me the effort of replying to the questions, too! Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
JPRouve said:
Or more because there is a difference between what governments are supposed to do and what they actually do. The moment you give them the ballot, they are effectively in full control of it, from the point of view of a potential dictatorship that system is obviously terrible.
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Like I said earlier I think most voting systems in the world are old and haven't caught up with modern technology and more importantly modern life. Ours is probably more antiquated than most and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the basics of it go back centuries although I have no idea.

Personally, I think technology could be used to give a completely anonymous voting system which is easier to use, easier to measure and doesn't disenfranchise voters who can't make it on the day for whatever reason. The whole system needs moving forward decades, at least in the UK.
 
decorativeed said:
This is the crux of it, yes. Requiring ID that some people simply do not have the time or money to aquire disenfranchised thousands of people in US elections.

Thanks for saving me the effort of replying to the questions, too! Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Around here it doesn't take time or money to get an ID card, outside of a picture. So that argument is difficult to understand from a french standpoint.
 
Balljy said:
Like I said earlier I think most voting systems in the world are old and haven't caught up with modern technology and more importantly modern life. Ours is probably more antiquated than most and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the basics of it go back centuries although I have no idea.

Personally, I think technology could be used to give a completely anonymous voting system which is easier to use, easier to measure and doesn't disenfranchise voters who can't make it on the day for whatever reason. The whole system needs moving forward decades, at least in the UK.
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Don't you guys have in-person early voting?
 
Siorac said:
But how does it work in practice? I'm not interested in the whole voter fraud issue or anything - but what happens when John Smith walks up, announces that he's John Smith... and there are 13 other John Smiths in that particular district. What happens? Do they ask for his address or date of birth or what?
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You don't actually tell them your name first, you tell them your address. Unlikely there are too many John Smiths living at the same address.
 
Balljy said:
There is a negative to the one polling station method as it reduces the number voting. My work (pre-covid) means that I could be anywhere on a particular day and there is no way I would know a few weeks in advance. I've missed a couple of votes because of that.

You could argue that I should go for a proxy vote, but I'd rather do it myself if I'm around. Moving the vote to a weekend has been alluded to which would help.

Personally, I think with today's technologies the concept of going in person (particularly when you don't even need ID when you get there) is pretty pointless, a waste of time and reduces the number of people bothering. There's a number of methods that could be used to make remote voting online infallible.
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Then you just ask for a postal vote.
 
decorativeed said:
Then you just ask for a postal vote.
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Which you have to do a while in advance and my job I can know 1 to 2 days in advance that I'm on the other-side of the country. I could do it anyway, yeah but it's not ideal.
 
Balljy said:
Like I said earlier I think most voting systems in the world are old and haven't caught up with modern technology and more importantly modern life. Ours is probably more antiquated than most and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the basics of it go back centuries although I have no idea.

Personally, I think technology could be used to give a completely anonymous voting system which is easier to use, easier to measure and doesn't disenfranchise voters who can't make it on the day for whatever reason. The whole system needs moving forward decades, at least in the UK.
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Voting system or tools are just a tool. Our longest dictator has a clean election (no magic votes etc), it doesnt stop him rigging it in his favor.

The faulty lies in the counter. Not the vote itself.

And while technology could help you still need valid id to vote. The flaw in the us is not how they vote, but more on political level vote suppression.
 
Simbo said:
They've already covered this in some states, including Georgia (the most contested/cried about state by the repubs, even after 2 recounts) where there is a paper ballot to back up every single vote counted on the electronic machines.

Makes the voting machine claims even more laughable, this isn't in place in all states yet however.
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I know, but it'd be easier to hand count than use machines to count, then have people doubt the findings of the machines and have to do it all again by hand anyway. I can see this happening as standard now given all the BS this year. Would be easier to cut out the middle man/machine, like most other countries do.
 
Balljy said:
Which you have to do a while in advance and my job I can know 1 to 2 days in advance that I'm on the other-side of the country. I could do it anyway, yeah but it's not ideal.
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Yeah, I've been in the same position. While I had uncertainty, I just asked for a postal vote rather than leave it to chance. Like I say, anyway, I think elections should take place at the weekend, as fewer people would be affected by their work schedules.
 
Sky1981 said:
Voting system or tools are just a tool. Our longest dictator has a clean election (no magic votes etc), it doesnt stop him rigging it in his favor.

The faulty lies in the counter. Not the vote itself.

And while technology could help you still need valid id to vote. The flaw in the us is not how they vote, but more on political level vote suppression.
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This should probably go into another thread now as it is interesting, but is more about worldwide voting systems.

I would argue that ID is only a tool to prove a person, the voting system is a tool to record a vote and the counter as you say is the recorded vote itself. ID can easily be handled by technology with far better security than a card with a photo (if done well), the vote itself can be handled by technology and the counter can't really be wrong if it is also handled by technology.

Voter suppression is far greater with in-person voting as numerous studies have shown with postal voting against in-person. Obviously it would need to be very well thought out and there would be a lot of people who don't trust remote voting but that would be on the people advocating it to prove it will work and work without possibility of tampering.
 
JPRouve said:
Around here it doesn't take time or money to get an ID card, outside of a picture. So that argument is difficult to understand from a french standpoint.
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I'm not sure what ID is required from state to state, but reading up on it, about 1/3 require photo ID, such as drivers licenses or passports. I'm fairly sure they don't give out free drivers licenses or passports.
 
Kentonio said:
Really? It looks exactly like him.
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Except for the different eye colour and the fact that Norris is around 80 years old which this guy clearly isn’t. If you look at recent pics of him he bears no resemble to whoever this knock off bloke is in the photo.
 
Kaos said:
That's not Chuck Norris ffs :lol:
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I believed it was him on the photo because frankly him being there would be the opposite of surprising. Guess that's called confirmation bias.
 
Hansi Fick said:
I thought it was him because frankly him being there would be the opposite of surprising
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Oh he's probably a MAGA idiot, but likely not so stupid as to throw himself in with the mob that terrorised the capitol. He's always pretty much endorsed Mike Huckerbee anyway.
 
It's a different plot for this Invasion USA reboot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_U.S.A._(1985_film)

Someone should edit wiki. Here's an example: Invasion U.S.A. is a 2021 American documentary film made by Trumpshit Films starring Chuck Norris, and was directed by Chuck Norris. It involves the star leading a pack of ravenous imbeciles, dubbed "patriots" in the same vein as "wolverines", in an attempt to overtake the U.S. Capitol and anoint Donald J. Trump as emperor supreme of the insurgency idiocy.
 
Anustart89 said:
Wait, so you just pop into a polling station and say your name and that's it?

That sounds mental :lol:
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Well, people are sent polling cards via post (mail) before the election - and this has their name and address on it. Most people take these with them when they go to vote, but you can still vote even if you don't have a polling card with you.

But you can only vote at specified polling centre in your neighbourhood. Each centre has a list of all the registered voters in their area - and they cross off the names on the list as each person turns up to vote.
 
MrMarcello said:
Never forget his wacky 2012 call to all christians to vote out Obama.

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America’s right wing has a weird obsession with “socialists”. I wonder which policies they refer to when they use the word as if it’s the worst thing that can happen to them.
 
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