The “Ole In” Brigade

[romufc]

Ole hate? The fact you immediately assume anyone that is able to criticise the manager is a hater says more about you.

Good luck on your crusade converting all us haters

I have gone back to check your posts... its all about how Ole is crap and doing a crap job.

What makes you think any half decent manager wouldn't be an improvement on the unqualified charlatan we currently have in charge?

 

[roonster09]

Ole hate? The fact you immediately assume anyone that is able to criticise the manager is a hater says more about you.

Good luck on your crusade converting all us haters

 

[roonster09]

I have gone back to check your posts... its all about how Ole is crap and doing a crap job.

Ironic these posters say others are incapable of recognising "GOOD and bad" when for 2 seasons they didn't find a single good thing and came up with ridiculous shit Nick names.

 

[Zen86]

Its okay, we will see you in full force once we lose a game with your Ole hate.

I wouldn't both with him, he's a bit bitter. I think Ole forgot to return his letter or something.

 

[b82REZ]

I have gone back to check your posts... its all about how Ole is crap and doing a crap job.

By all means post some these posts.

I call a spade a spade. When he's done shit I say as much, I also recognise any good he's done.

 

[romufc]

Ironic these posters say others are incapable of recognising "GOOD and bad" when for 2 seasons they didn't find a single good thing and came up with ridiculous shit Nick names.

I can agree when things looked bleek and it looked doom and gloom to say it may be time to change the manager. However; when he turns it around, to keep the same energy to prove your point? Really?

We as fans can change opinion, it seems some of them will pick on anything little even when we are winning.. we are winning games, lets enjoy it.

Calling a manager names? I get fans not agreeing with certain managerial choices but to say he is unqualified? come on.. its clutching.

 

[DatIrishFella]

I wanted him gone. But this season has thought me one thing. I dont have the foggiest when it comes to management of a professional football team.

 

[roonster09]

I can agree when things looked bleek and it looked doom and gloom to say it may be time to change the manager. However; when he turns it around, to keep the same energy to prove your point? Really?

We as fans can change opinion, it seems some of them will pick on anything little even when we are winning.. we are winning games, lets enjoy it.

Calling a manager names? I get fans not agreeing with certain managerial choices but to say he is unqualified? come on.. its clutching.

There are few posters who will post non stop whenever we lose but when we are doing well, they won't post anything. There are at least couple of posters, wierd actually.

 

[RedSky]

I have gone back to check your posts... its all about how Ole is crap and doing a crap job.

Yeah but that's clearly just criticism!!

He was always a bloody frustrating poster to debate with when it came to Ole. I found a post on the 7th January 2021 where he states he can't see any progress, I mean seriously wtf. People see what they want to see ignoring facts and results.

 

[b82REZ]

There are few posters who will post non stop whenever we lose but when we are doing well, they won't post anything. There are at least couple of posters, wierd actually.

Ironic these posters say others are incapable of recognising "GOOD and bad" when for 2 seasons they didn't find a single good thing and came up with ridiculous shit Nick names.

I'd expect a lot better from a scout.

Please find these ironic posts of mine, posts where I've called him a name (saying he's doing/did a bad job isn't name calling) or stop pushing the silly narrative that any criticism = hater.

 

[big rons sovereign]

After months of shouting down and labelling anybody backing ole 'top red'. Those doing all the shouting are now extremely touchy about being called out on it.
Amusing really.

 

[OutOfTowner]

There have been games this season where I felt that subs should have been made earlier than they were when the situation was crying out for it but in terms of the Fulham match, I don't necessarily think that subs needed to be made that quickly in the first hour. Sure we were chasing a winner but we had ramped up the pressure considerably by that point. Maybe we weren't making the breakthrough at that point but we had been utilising the wings well, getting Shaw on that left wing more and Pogba dictating things from the right. I reckon Ole didn't want to change things because he figured the continuous pressure heaped on the box would eventually see a breakthrough and thankfully it did. The upside is that when we dropped back in the last 10 minutes and were putting ourselves through needless pressure, he was at least able to put on Matic and McTominay to protect that backline, knowing we no longer needed to chase the game.

 

[roonster09]

Ironic these posters say others are incapable of recognising "GOOD and bad" when for 2 seasons they didn't find a single good thing and came up with ridiculous shit Nick names.

I'd expect a lot better from a scout.

Please find these ironic posts of mine, posts where I've called him a name (saying he's doing/did a bad job isn't name calling) or stop pushing the silly narrative that any criticism = hater.

How can I find posts that aren't there? When results were bad did you post anything good that was done by ole or everything was driven by just results?

Also other post is not about you and I didn't even call anyone who criticize as hater. I wanted him out too so why would I call anyone who wanted him gone as hater?

There are few special posters who belong to MikeLuhg category.

 

[b82REZ]

Yeah but that's clearly just criticism!!

He was always a bloody frustrating poster to debate with when it came to Ole. I found a post on the 7th January 2021 where he states he can't see any progress, I mean seriously wtf. People see what they want to see ignoring facts and results.

At least have the decency to address me directly.

Please post the post where I said there was no progress. Unless of course you mean this one

What progress though? There's absolutely no way we can guarantee where we're heading simply because of how inconsistent we have been under Ole.

A big step forward for him would be that we don't implode after last night, as we have in the past after bad results.

If he can keep us there or thereabouts until May I'll concede there are greenshoots of progression, but as likely as we are to push Liverpool and City for a league title, we're just as likely to have another bad run and end up in a battle for top 4. If the latter happens that is not progress, that's regression or if you're being kind, stagnation.

In which case you've completely misunderstood the point I was making. But who cares aye, let's just keep pretending that everything has been consistently rosy under Ole and we have no reason to be apprehensive, despite our seeming upward trajectory.

Even the most ardent Ole Outers won't deny there have been sustained periods of excellent football and results. However what is often overlooked is the stretches of poor performances. Each season Ole has been here we have had a period of sustained poor form. The way he corrected the slump this season is to be commended but that doesn't mean we won't breakdown again during the later stages of the season.

The thing is, I'm not even Ole Out. I'm probably more easily categorised as an Ole agnostic but you and many others are on such a campaign that all nuance in debate is completely lost on you.

 

[RedSky]

I'd expect a lot better from a scout.

Please find these ironic posts of mine, posts where I've called him a name (saying he's doing/did a bad job isn't name calling) or stop pushing the silly narrative that any criticism = hater.

Yeah, you don't call Ole names at least. But you are heavily Ole Out and have been for a good 18 months to the point where any post regarding Ole is critism and negative. You had over 300 posts in the Ole Out thread for example and I flicked through several pages of them and they were all negative, you're also confrontonial and call people who defended Ole with nicknames like "Ole sympathisers".

Honestly, it's been evident for months and months that we're pushing in the right direction and going from strength to strength. If we win our next match against Sheffield United we will be joint on points with Joses miracle 2nd place finish for example and this despite playing in a hectic schedule due to covid. The big problem we have I feel long term is that we might struggle financially due to covid to bring substantial reinforcements in the Summer window which will be needed.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I'd expect a lot better from a scout.

Please find these ironic posts of mine, posts where I've called him a name (saying he's doing/did a bad job isn't name calling) or stop pushing the silly narrative that any criticism = hater.

A charlatan?

 

[Skåre Willoch]

What was it you wrote about us 1 year ago ?

"I honestly do not think that most fans here on CAF who support to keep Ole are real United fans. Any idiot can see that he is out of his depth. "

Last time we were idiots and not real fans - now we are twats.

A bit late to the party here, but wow.

 

[RedSky]

At least have the decency to address me directly.

Please post the post where I said there was no progress. Unless of course you mean this one

In which case you've completely misunderstood the point I was making. But who cares aye, let's just keep pretending that everything has been consistently rosy under Ole and we have no reason to be apprehensive, despite our seeming upward trajectory.

Even the most ardent Ole Outers won't deny there have been sustained periods of excellent football and results. However what is often overlooked is the stretches of poor performances. Each season Ole has been here we have had a period of sustained poor form. The way he corrected the slump this season is to be commended but that doesn't mean we won't breakdown again during the later stages of the season.

The thing is, I'm not even Ole Out. I'm probably more easily categorised as an Ole agnostic but you and many others are on such a campaign that all nuance in debate is completely lost on you.

It's bollocks though mate. In the last 33 league games we've lost three games. Under Ole we've recorded our 2nd, 3rd and 4th longest unbeaten runs in the league since Sir Alex retired. What you're basically moaning about is the period of form after the PSG miracle win. From that point we suffered a huge dip in form as our players were knackered due to poor fitness. We then had a bad start to the following season when Pogba was injured long term resulting in us playing Pereira and Lingard, this was amplified when Rashford and Martial also suffered injuries and we then were forced to play Mata and James. There were clear reasons why our form was bad and I argued as such for hours during that period that we needed patience and needed to grind through that spell until we could properly address the AM position in January. Ultimately, we should have brought in Bruno in the Summer and not the Winter window that season, hopefully a lesson learned for the future.

In any case, since Bruno signed on and we relegated Pereira/Lingard out of the first team our form has been exceptional. A few small bumps along the way but nothing majorly concerning. Just a pity we dropped the ball in the CL against Basaksehir, that was the most frustrating game all season for me as I could see it coming a mile away that we'd feck it up and we did. Again, hopefully thats a valuable lesson for Ole and the players.

 

[b82REZ]

It's bollocks though mate. In the last 33 league games we've lost three games. Under Ole we've recorded our 2nd, 3rd and 4th longest unbeaten runs in the league since Sir Alex retired. What you're basically moaning about is the period of form after the PSG miracle win. From that point we suffered a huge dip in form as our players were knackered due to poor fitness. We then had a bad start to the following season when Pogba was injured long term resulting in us playing Pereira and Lingard, this was amplified when Rashford and Martial also suffered injuries and we then were forced to play Mata and James. There were clear reasons why our form was bad and I argued as such for hours during that period that we needed patience and needed to grind through that spell until we could properly address the AM position in January. Ultimately, we should have brought in Bruno in the Summer and not the Winter window that season, hopefully a lesson learned for the future.

In any case, since Bruno signed on and we relegated Pereira/Lingard out of the first team our form has been exceptional. A few small bumps along the way but nothing majorly concerning. Just a pity we dropped the ball in the CL against Basaksehir, that was the most frustrating game all season for me as I could see it coming a mile away that we'd feck it up and we did. Again, hopefully thats a valuable lesson for Ole and the players.

I too hope I'm proven wrong. However there are still lingering doubts for me. However that doesn't mean I actively want him to fail, which is the narrative that has been pushed recently.

If you put a gun to my head now I'd be Ole In, however I'm not going to pretend everything is great, because IMO there are still improvements to be made. However there has been a crusade recently to paint anyone who has or had doubts as some mouth breathing idiot who doesn't really support the club.

 

[roonster09]

I too hope I'm proven wrong. However there are still lingering doubts for me. However that doesn't mean I actively want him to fail, which is the narrative that has been pushed recently.

If you put a gun to my head now I'd be Ole In, however I'm not going to pretend everything is great, because IMO there are still improvements to be made. However there has been a crusade recently to paint anyone who has or had doubts as some mouth breathing idiot who doesn't really support the club.

Tbf there are idiots who came up with same shit when people were supporting Ole, saying these people are rival fans pretending as ManUtd ones.

 

[anant]

It's bollocks though mate. In the last 33 league games we've lost three games. Under Ole we've recorded our 2nd, 3rd and 4th longest unbeaten runs in the league since Sir Alex retired. What you're basically moaning about is the period of form after the PSG miracle win. From that point we suffered a huge dip in form as our players were knackered due to poor fitness. We then had a bad start to the following season when Pogba was injured long term resulting in us playing Pereira and Lingard, this was amplified when Rashford and Martial also suffered injuries and we then were forced to play Mata and James. There were clear reasons why our form was bad and I argued as such for hours during that period that we needed patience and needed to grind through that spell until we could properly address the AM position in January. Ultimately, we should have brought in Bruno in the Summer and not the Winter window that season, hopefully a lesson learned for the future.

In any case, since Bruno signed on and we relegated Pereira/Lingard out of the first team our form has been exceptional. A few small bumps along the way but nothing majorly concerning. Just a pity we dropped the ball in the CL against Basaksehir, that was the most frustrating game all season for me as I could see it coming a mile away that we'd feck it up and we did. Again, hopefully thats a valuable lesson for Ole and the players.

Honestly, since Bruno has signed, look at the teams we've lost to - 3 defeats in league, 2 of them when we clearly weren't fit and 1 to Arsenal, a defeat to City in LC semis, Sevilla in EL semis (a game we thoroughly dominated), Chelsea in FAC semis. And another 3 in CL - 2 to last year's semifinalists and 1 to Basaksehir - defeat that cost us the most.

Now if this was any other manager, we'd be praising the manager and singing songs about him because our results have been fantastic, but because it's a failed Cardiff manager, and because half the posters on here doubled down on Ole being a League 2 level manager, we're still having this Civil war on a daily basis

 

[Zlatan 7]

Tbf there are idiots who came up with same shit when people were supporting Ole, saying these people are rival fans pretending as ManUtd ones.

 

[Eriku]

I too hope I'm proven wrong. However there are still lingering doubts for me. However that doesn't mean I actively want him to fail, which is the narrative that has been pushed recently.

If you put a gun to my head now I'd be Ole In, however I'm not going to pretend everything is great, because IMO there are still improvements to be made. However there has been a crusade recently to paint anyone who has or had doubts as some mouth breathing idiot who doesn't really support the club.

There’s a difference between having doubts and calling a club legend an unqualified charlatan. If you seriously think this is all about agendas against anybody who was Ole out at some point, then you’re a bit blinkered tbh.

 

[rotherham_red]

By all means post some these posts.

I call a spade a spade. When he's done shit I say as much, I also recognise any good he's done.

The big question is, is the manager who has us currently in 1st place, an utter *checks notes* charlatan? Asking for a friend

 

[Gator Nate]

This whole 'in-game management' myth really needs to be put to bed now. There is simply no justification for it other than 'he's not making subs when I think he should be making subs' which if course is not an argument at all. What are the parameters that can be used fairly to judge this anyway? In-game management after all is surely just an adjustment made - be it tactical, with substitutions, or a half time motivational discussion - that helps a team deliver a result during a match, right?

Well, currently points gained from a losing position looks like this:

United - 21
Liverpool - 10
Leicester - 8
Chelsea - 7
Spurs - 6
City - 2
Arsenal - 1

So there's that.....

We are also ranked 2nd in goals scored in the second half. Our goal difference in the second half is also ranked 2nd. In fact, in pretty much every metric we are ranked very high in terms of second half performance.

If we looked at these statistics from a neutral viewpoint, in another circumstance, and without bias or agenda we would conclude that this manager is actually the best in the league at so-called 'in-game management'. There are other factors too of course. It would be remiss not to give our players equal credit, but ultimately something is happening in our dressing room at half-time that is producing an improvement.

So much in football is random and unpredictable though. Last season we only conceded 17 first half goals all season. This season 15 already. Last season we scored 11 goals in the last 15 minutes. This season 10 already. Its really quite pointless reading too much into these stats and concluding anything unless those statistics are constant, and very few things in football are ever constant. All that matters is how many points you are winning.

It does mean though that the on-going criticism of Ole in this area isn't really based on anything other than a feeling, and that feeling originates (IMO) from certain peoples on-going reluctance to let themselves believe that Ole belongs at this level, but that's a different conversation.

OKay, so one game he didnt take off a player who was on a yellow. Did Fred play badly that game?

Cost us the match? We were 2-1 down before Fred got sent off btw.

Does that mean every time a midfielder gets a yellow in the first half, we should sub them at half time?

Vs Leicester, 1 -1 he took of James at 54 minutes and brought Pogba on...
Vs West Ham - 2 half time subs
Vs Southampton - 2 half time subs
Vs PSG away - made a sub that won us the game
Vs Leipzig - Made sub that went from 1-0 to 5-0

You think other managers are better? Don't let your hate for Ole cloud your judgement. He is not a perfect manager but he is improving and doing okay so far.

Pep v WBA the game they drew 1-1, made first sub at 76 minutes.


You point to one game and say this is him because of one game? One bad decision means he always makes bad decisions?

It's bollocks though mate. In the last 33 league games we've lost three games. Under Ole we've recorded our 2nd, 3rd and 4th longest unbeaten runs in the league since Sir Alex retired. What you're basically moaning about is the period of form after the PSG miracle win. From that point we suffered a huge dip in form as our players were knackered due to poor fitness. We then had a bad start to the following season when Pogba was injured long term resulting in us playing Pereira and Lingard, this was amplified when Rashford and Martial also suffered injuries and we then were forced to play Mata and James. There were clear reasons why our form was bad and I argued as such for hours during that period that we needed patience and needed to grind through that spell until we could properly address the AM position in January. Ultimately, we should have brought in Bruno in the Summer and not the Winter window that season, hopefully a lesson learned for the future.

In any case, since Bruno signed on and we relegated Pereira/Lingard out of the first team our form has been exceptional. A few small bumps along the way but nothing majorly concerning. Just a pity we dropped the ball in the CL against Basaksehir, that was the most frustrating game all season for me as I could see it coming a mile away that we'd feck it up and we did. Again, hopefully thats a valuable lesson for Ole and the players.

These three posts alone should give enough reasons to sway even unreasonably stubborn opponents of Ole as manager if they're as truly objective as they say they are. His in-game management is actually above-average when you take the results into account. And his man-management is perhaps top of the league. Consistency issues have no basis in results, other than - maybe - tournament semi-finals.

I'll add that our physio seems to have improved. For all the complaints that we're running players into the ground, look at our injury list at the moment. Look at it since the start of this season. It's never gotten to true crisis level, partly due to a much stronger bench, but also, I think, because the physio department has gotten better. Add to that the improved conditioning of our squad, playing 95 minutes and looking the much stronger side against most teams at the end, and I can't see any legitimate complaints on that end.

 

[b82REZ]

A charlatan?

Please post where I said that. I don't remember saying that but if I did I'm sure I was more than justified based on what was on display.

Personally don't think anyone who has said that are insulting the manager. Just expressing their opinion on him. I was talking about the more abrasive insults, that aren't directly linked to the job he is doing at that point in time.

 

[romufc]

These three posts alone should give enough reasons to sway even unreasonably stubborn opponents of Ole as manager if they're as truly objective as they say they are. His in-game management is actually above-average when you take the results into account. And his man-management is perhaps top of the league. Consistency issues have no basis in results, other than - maybe - tournament semi-finals.

I'll add that our physio seems to have improved. For all the complaints that we're running players into the ground, look at our injury list at the moment. Look at it since the start of this season. It's never gotten to true crisis level, partly due to a much stronger bench, but also, I think, because the physio department has gotten better. Add to that the improved conditioning of our squad, playing 95 minutes and looking the much stronger side against most teams at the end, and I can't see any legitimate complaints on that end.

Isn't that what Ole wanted though? A fit squad, he kept going on and on about it at the start of the season, when we looked completely crap.

No one is saying Ole is the best manager or coach in the PL, just trying to balance out that he has improved his management over the year. Last season, his press conferences were crap, his post match interviews were rubbish, which has all changed now. He is better at it now.

The problem for me is people take the Fred, PSG incident and decide he is crap at in game management, when he came out and said, "maybe I should have subbed him" meaning he accepts his mistake. Since then, he has rotated the team well, how he has used Pogba and re integrating him into the team.

Ofcourse in some games, one fan may prefer x player to start instead of another, that is fan opinion, not everyone will agree. However; he knows who his game winners are.

 

[anant]

Please post where I said that. I don't remember saying that but if I did I'm sure I was more than justified based on what was on display.

Personally don't think anyone who has said that are insulting the manager. Just expressing their opinion on him. I was talking about the more abrasive insults, that aren't directly linked to the job he is doing at that point in time.

I keep seeing this line from you who want to keep Ole, a new manager will "inevitably fail". We are seeing failure right now. Unless the next manager gets us relegated he wont be as much of a failure as Solksjaer. What makes you think any half decent manager wouldn't be an improvement on the unqualified charlatan we currently have in charge?

Like it or not Ole is statistically the worse manager we've had since SAF. You can try and spin it like he's doing some divine job and getting us back to the top but he simply isn't. We have regressed to the point that many people are accepting this season is over by Christmas. No managers, let alone the manager of United should be saying at this point of the season that we are just using this season as an extended pre season for next year. Its obscene and frankly no better than Moyes saying we aspire to be like City.

Here you go

 

[Zlatan 7]

Here you go

Aged well

 

[b82REZ]

Here you go

Context is important. What date was that posted?

I also disagree that saying he's a charlatan is an insult.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Here you go

oh dear. @b82REZ - what do you honestly think of what you wrote?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Context is important. What date was that posted?

I also disagree that saying he's a charlatan is an insult.

if you said to anyone that they were an “unqualified charlatan” I don’t imagine you would find many people who would not be offended.

it was clearly an insult.

 

[b82REZ]

oh dear. @b82REZ - what do you honestly think of what you wrote?

I've stated above.

Also how thin are some of your skins that you think calling someone a charlatan is a terrible insult.

That post was made on 25/12/2019. Remind me, how were we doing at that point? What was the manager saying in the media at that point? As stated plucking a quote from 18 months a go out and plopping in a thread where people are actively trying to make out I've personally insulted the man, it needs context.

 

[Zlatan 7]

oh dear. @b82REZ - what do you honestly think of what you wrote?

There’s absolutely no acknowledgment from what I can tell, just excuses. That post is typical of the I want it all and want it now fan, no time for growing.

we were a a mess and it’s a journey to change the attitude around the club and the direction we take, we seem to be on the right path since Ole took over, hopefully it will lead to decent trophies

 

[b82REZ]

if you said to anyone that they were an “unqualified charlatan” I don’t imagine you would find many people who would not be offended.

it was clearly an insult.

I must have thicker skin that you then.

Christ some of you must need to wear ear muffs when you visit OT because some the assessments of our players and managers by fans are much worse than saying they're a charlatan.

 

[lysglimt]

Context is important. What date was that posted?

I also disagree that saying he's a charlatan is an insult.

Please tell me one sentence when you are calling someone a charlatan isn't an insult ? Especially knowing this is the definition of charlatan:

A charlatan (also called a swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick or deception in order to obtain money, fame, or other advantages via some form of pretense or deception. Synonyms for charlatan include shyster, quack, or faker

 

[Jippy]

I must have thicker skin that you then.

Christ some of you must need to wear ear muffs when you visit OT because some the assessments of our players and managers by fans are much worse than saying they're a charlatan.

Of course it's an insult, regardless of whether you're offended by being called it or not.

 

[anant]

Context is important. What date was that posted?

I also disagree that saying he's a charlatan is an insult.

Yeah context is important. We were without Pogba, I think McT was injured as well, martial had missed quite a bit, and our underlying stats at that moment were not really that bad - we were 4th in nearly every underlying stat.

Ofcourse you might have been looking at results then, but in that case, you must be elated now, which does not seem to be the case

 

[Gator Nate]

Isn't that what Ole wanted though? A fit squad, he kept going on and on about it at the start of the season, when we looked completely crap.

No one is saying Ole is the best manager or coach in the PL, just trying to balance out that he has improved his management over the year. Last season, his press conferences were crap, his post match interviews were rubbish, which has all changed now. He is better at it now.

The problem for me is people take the Fred, PSG incident and decide he is crap at in game management, when he came out and said, "maybe I should have subbed him" meaning he accepts his mistake. Since then, he has rotated the team well, how he has used Pogba and re integrating him into the team.

Ofcourse in some games, one fan may prefer x player to start instead of another, that is fan opinion, not everyone will agree. However; he knows who his game winners are.

Fitness was the single most important thing Ole harped on from day one. Well before the fall-off in that first half-season he had, he was preaching it. I think he knew what was going to happen and had accepted it. Ole made a lot of long-term decisions that adversely affected short-term performance. He really put himself on the line with that. It's paying off now.

On the Fred/PSG thing, I took it as his trust in Fred. It bothered me a lot less than it seemed to bother most. As you pointed out, we were already down 2-1 when he got booked the second time.

 

[lysglimt]

Love how no one is criticising Ole for not subbing off Pogba at half time after he picked up a yellow card..

Pogba was on a tight rope after getting one after 7 minutes. He was playing CM where Fred played against PSG.

In fairness - there is a difference in how players perform on the field. If Rashford gets a yellow you don't expect him to get another yellow, same with Pogba. Fred and Bailly are different players - their strength (and weakness) are the way they charge into situations. So if Fred or Bailly get a yellow in the first 15 minutes of a game - there is reason to be more concerned than if Rashford, Pogba or Maguire get it.