We are an awfully coached team

PoTMS said:
When did I say that? On both counts. I mean if I've spent most of this season saying it, it should be easy to find, right?
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Out of interest I just searched your user name and ‘struggle top 4’.
It give me a laugh fairplay :) not just us but most teams at the top are going to struggle for top four, I actually laughed at how much you’d written struggle for top 4. Not related or having a go, just found it funny.
 
cyberman said:
https://www.redcafe.net/matches/manchester-united-vs-crystal-palace.345/page-40

On this page. Im actually proud I remembered that
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That was a match day thread on the opening day of the season where we were putting in a pathetic performance against a rubbish Palace side. I said that other teams looked better than us, including Everton, I didn't say they would finish above us.

Also, initially I thought we would struggle after piss poor performances but we eventually pulled our finger out. I most certainly did not say that we would not make top 4 for most of this season. It's not as if we have secured top 4 anyway either. I now think we will make it but we can just as easily fall out of it with a few dodgy results.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Out of interest I just searched your user name and ‘struggle top 4’.
It give me a laugh fairplay :) not just us but most teams at the top are going to struggle for top four, I actually laughed at how much you’d written struggle for top 4. Not related or having a go, just found it funny.
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I wasn't wrong though - probably 8-9 teams are in the fight for top 4 this season. From us in second, all the way down to Arsenal in tenth. There's no guarantee any of the big clubs will make top 4. I thought City would be in that category too but they have run away with it.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Again, no one is stressed & your Top Red’ism isn’t really helping progress any discussion.

You made a statement I disagreed with, that happens on a forum I don’t need to reacquaint myself with previous baron spells especially when those came under the stewardship of the greatest manager of all time with a once in a generation youth class.

Who said we’ve steamrolled trophies throughout our history? Not me.

Who said there’s been no progress? Not me.

Who’s called our recent history where we get knocked out in the latter stages of multiple cup competitions & finish 3rd a successful period then ran from those comments? You.

When you feel like actually discussing the comments you made instead of hyperbolic nonsense about periods under the greatest manager ever then I’m here but right now that blind optimism is looking unfounded.

Your initial comments weren’t about progress, keep up.
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Barren
 
Jaqen H'ghar said:
I'm not so sure. We've tried big names in LvG and Mourinho not so long ago. Yet the best results and football style have come under Ole.
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Putting aside the Solskjaer issue, we may have appointed big name managers - but that's all they were at that point. big names, who were no longer big managers.

We still haven't gone down the road of appointing great managers.
 
PoTMS said:
That was a match day thread on the opening day of the season where we were putting in a pathetic performance against a rubbish Palace side. I said that other teams looked better than us, including Everton, I didn't say they would finish above us. It's not as if we have secured top 4 either. I now think we will make it but we can just as easily fall out of it with a few dodgy results.
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That makes it worse!
Im not really having a go, i just think a lot of people criticising where we are now forget what their pre season predictions were.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/would-you-sack-or-keep-ole-poll-reopened.450911/page-799

Thats not a match day thread and youre flat out saying we arent getting top 4 because so many teams are better than us. Its strange to go from that to we should be closer to City and doing well in Europe. Especially when we are sitting on 1 defeat in 19 games and City are only above us because of a record breaking win streak that has literally come out of nowhere.
All in all its progression. If the board fecks over Ole again saving a penny or Ole falls back after getting his targets them we should re-evaluate where we are as a club. I just think Ole has earned a bit of leeway as we stand
 
passing-wind said:
Not for me the productivity of two wide players I'd consider to be nothing more than link up play. Pattern of play perhaps the wrong definition but more inclined to how we influence the phases of play representing how the off ball movement is used to form shapes that provide angles to also pass in between the lines / shift the opposition to create spaces. We struggle to break teams down as a result.

There's no intensity to how the team moves the ball around, the players will always be inconsistent performance wise as a result. I can't understand this argument that we are better than Mourinho / LVG it's like saying that Jose / Poch were better than Redknapp but Spurs aren't reformed when it comes down to actually winning anything. It's a contrast that doesn't quantify an element of objectivity.

I appreciate the progress Solskjaer has made, this isn't a recommendation to sack the manager. This is more the ceiling in how far we are going to go. Neville has raised all of the same points saying that the next phase is for Ole to implement an identity it's not exactly something that needs meditation on to observe.
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Regarding the bolded part, there's a video or an animated gif somewhere showing how Pep players take up positions and make runs and feints to manipulate defenders' field of view to open up blind sides. I can't believe I never bookmarked it.
 
Jaqen H'ghar said:
I'm not so sure. We've tried big names in LvG and Mourinho not so long ago. Yet the best results and football style have come under Ole.

My take is I'd rather give him time until it's obvious he has nothing to give rather than take risk and try to fix something that seems to be working.
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Forget the name, just some definitive coaching will do. It's actually a credit to Ole because I believe he's got a damn good base to work with considering our fortunes post Fergie. This isn't some incomprehensible mess he is marshaling.
 
I don't think it is a problem with coaching, but more of player recruitment and selection. No one could account for the drop-off in form from Martial and DeGea. Lindelof has peaked and is never going to become a commanding playmaker. He is not especially good at anything. Maguire is decent but not more than that, which means that his mistakes are highlighted. DVdB looks like it was not money well spent.
It is fantastic that we have this focus on bringing our youth players through from the academy, but we can't be relying on 18/19 year old kids to turn us into world beaters.
It all screams lack of Director of Football to me.
 
croadyman said:
32 goals conceded in the league says we aren't being coached well at all
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We can definitely improve defensively but just highlighting goals conceded doesn't mean anything, Liverpool and Everton have conceded more and I don't think anyone believes their teams have bad coaches. I think problem lies more with on field leadership, I think maguire definitely deserves his place in team given our other options but he isn't the great on field leader and organiser we wanted
 
Its quite weird because I agreed initially with us being awfully coached. Last year especially there was nothing - no pattern of play, and no creativity. No understanding of how to create space in the final third and we looked dead in the water except on the counter attack as a result. There has, in my opinion, been a MASSIVE improvement in that area - much of it the result of Fred and McTominay working so well in the double pivot - when one of them runs from deep it makes the guy picking up Bruno give one of them space, and when you hug the touchlines on either side with our full backs (something Shaw and Wan Bassaka are excelling at recently - Telles signing lit a fire under Shaw's arse I think) that accounts for a lot of the improvement (along with Rashford developing into a really world class talent).
But....do we give credit to Solksjaer? Is this down to patience, working on shape and pattern of play on the training ground? I hope so. But when you look how awful we are defensively (and how mentally slow they seem to be at times - we're so vulnerable at times indicative of poor concentration/morale - just before half time, just before full time, and just after scoring) that I can't help feel we're still awfully coached. Yes - we need better personnel at CB (I can't help feel Lindelof and Bailly are our best pairing), but they're also pretty poorly coached I think.
 
We definitely need a defensive coach, I'm not sure who in this current set up is responsible for that. If not a full time one then just temporary pointers from someone like Rio or Neville could sort it out. We have definitely regressed in this regard compared to the previous season.
 
Been hoping for Ole to bring some hands to his technical staff but each new hire seems to be in the direction of forming an old boys club.
 
Josh 76 said:
15 of them came in 2 games.
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What is your point here?

14 of City's goals came in 3 games.

Teams that score a lot of goals have some games where they score more than others. If you were thinking about making a zinger, you missed the mark.
 
Flexdegea said:
That is what you call wrecked.


These people can't be real. Emotions run wild..........just constant until they think we are winning Europe cups. Seems should a brutal way to support a team.


In before someone tells us we not winners or have that winning mentality
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I can’t see anything wrong in that page. People moaning about our crap performance and complaining about us not getting a valid pen and Palace getting an invalid one. Fair enough.

One funny bit there though, where the last poster in the page says Werner will have more goals than our entire squad by Christmas. Aged well :lol:
 
RashyForPM said:
I can’t see anything wrong in that page. People moaning about our crap performance and complaining about us not getting a valid pen and Palace getting an invalid one. Fair enough.

One funny bit there though, where the last poster in the page says Werner will have more goals than our entire squad by Christmas. Aged well :lol:
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:lol:


It's mad all it. Either Ole is doing a good job or we are a squad of world class players with brilliant defenders, as there is not a hope in hell he fluking over a year undefeated away from home in league and improved again on last season.

Apparently Potter would do the same job
 
Greck said:
Been hoping for Ole to bring some hands to his technical staff but each new hire seems to be in the direction of forming an old boys club.
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Which particular coach do you want to join us?
 
Are people who are anti this thread debating that we are in fact a well coached team or are they just defending Ole the manager for the overall management job he has done since taking over?
 
Flexdegea said:
That is what you call wrecked.


These people can't be real. Emotions run wild..........just constant until they think we are winning Europe cups. Seems should a brutal way to support a team.


In before someone tells us we not winners or have that winning mentality
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We can’t be held accountable for content of match day threads. They are the on line equivalent of shouting at the TV during a match. There’s nobody here who hasn’t posted something ridiculous on the match day.
 
Leftback99 said:
I just assumed by your comment you had a good insight into who we should hire.
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Nah I don't need to have anyone in mind. I'd need a six figure salary and all the resources available to the manager to consider it
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
Are people who are anti this thread debating that we are in fact a well coached team or are they just defending Ole the manager for the overall management job he has done since taking over?
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My issue with this thread is that no one really knows whether our coaching is good or bad (myself included). It's just people saying stuff like 'patterns of play' when I'm pretty confident most could not give a decent explanation of what succesful 'pattern of play' any PL team was showing this weekend.
 
Flexdegea said:
:lol:


It's mad all it. Either Ole is doing a good job or we are a squad of world class players with brilliant defenders, as there is not a hope in hell he fluking over a year undefeated away from home in league and improved again on last season.

Apparently Potter would do the same job
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For me, the keep or sack Ole thread was the worst one. So many knee jerkers there who would either argue that Ole is the perfect man for the job who would win us loads of titles or that he’s nothing more than a Championship manager. Absolutely no in between to the point where when someone made a constructive post, it would be applauded as it was an exception.

In my view, he’s doing a decent job at the moment as we are on course for 77 points, 11 more than last season. If we get something like that, come 2nd or 3rd and win a trophy, then I’d be glad for Ole to stay one more year to fight for a title and a new contract. Quality and style of football isn’t a concern for me, which I’m happy to say as it has been from Moyes to Mourinho’s years. We’re top scorers and play good stuff a lot
of the time.

Tbf though, I think you are doing Potter a disservice. If he had better strikers, Brighton would be 7th now based on XG. I’m actually one of those who think Potter could make the step up to a big club and while he wouldn’t outperform Ole as that would mean fighting neck and neck with City, he wouldn’t be doing a much worse job than Ole. Might even equal him. Brighton, with one of the lowest budgets in the league, have been excellent all season and really ought to have comprehensively beat us and Chelsea, and beat Pool with ease at Anfield. He needs better players, but that’s for the Brighton thread.
 
Pep and Klopp didn't magically make their defence amazing. They invested heavily in GKs and Defenders.

Considering a large portion of our conceeded goals come from errors too, I don't think coaching is our issue.

I think playing DDG is and having Lindelof and Maguire as a partnership, which unfortunately is forced on him at the moment.
 
Leftback99 said:
My issue with this thread is that no one really knows whether our coaching is good or bad (myself included). It's just people saying stuff like 'patterns of play' when I'm pretty confident most could not give a decent explanation of what succesful 'pattern of play' any PL team was showing this weekend.
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Tbh any armchair fan can assess the end product. That much doesn't need qualifications. Like you don't need coaching badges to know a guy like Pep has his teams playing different from the average team. What needs coaching badges is designing such a system. The patterns of play people struggle to explain imo just refers to synchronized passing and movements and how teams execute complex moves without breaking the rhythm of their attack E.g You know the give and go or the 1-2? The most basic play in all of sports. That's a singular pattern of play in its most basic form. Advanced coaching will exhibit itself in how teams blend all of the above but on a teamwide scale
 
Leftback99 said:
My issue with this thread is that no one really knows whether our coaching is good or bad (myself included). It's just people saying stuff like 'patterns of play' when I'm pretty confident most could not give a decent explanation of what succesful 'pattern of play' any PL team was showing this weekend.
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Bloody ell, it’s crystal clear that certain teams are very drilled in their play, Leipzig, City, Liverpool, Leeds are obvious examples.
United are not drilled in the same way, at all, there’s no fecking debate there.

That said, Real Madrid won the CL 3 times in a row with a none drilled team, so absolutely the more individualistic approach can actually be more successful depending on the quality of those players. Brazil 1970 were sublime, even when you watch highlights today, they weren’t extensively drilled.

This should be a debate about those two contrasting approaches and their merits, not some bullshit denial thread.

I’d say the two best arguments are the following:

• SAF had an incredible team in 2009 which wasn’t heavily drilled, but Pep’s extensively drilled Barca side really did take us the cleaners and are lauded by many as the best side in history.

• Zidane’s individualistic Real Madrid won more CL’s in 3 years than Pep has managed in his entire career.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Bloody ell, it’s crystal clear that certain teams are very drilled in their play, Leipzig, City, Liverpool, Leeds are obvious examples.
United are not drilled in the same way, at all, there’s no fecking debate there.

That said, Real Madrid won the CL 3 times in a row with a none drilled team, so absolutely the more individualistic approach can actually be more successful depending on the quality of those players. Brazil 1970 were sublime, even when you watch highlights today, they weren’t extensively drilled.

This should be a debate about those two contrasting approaches and their merits, not some bullshit denial thread.
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Fair argument to make that Ruben Dias is the biggest factor of why Manchester City's defense has gone from poor at the start of the season, to rock solid. The players any team has available always matter. Do we have the right players at the club in every position?

We are scoring more than anyone. Obviously something is working right.

We're allowing goals at a very dissapointing rate. How many goals are down to bad setup, and how many are down to glaring personal mistakes?

The difference this season doesn't come from the losses, it comes from the several matches we've drawn. Points lost for various reasons. We need to identify those. Is it as simple as dropping De Gea? Henderson debuted by giving a goal to Sheffield away. Maybe we'd have won against Everton with Hendo in goal.

We have the same players in the backline as last season, but they are allowing far more goals. Why is that? The coaching team is the same. The players are the same. What's different?
 
Tom Cato said:
Fair argument to make that Ruben Dias is the biggest factor of why Manchester City's defense has gone from poor at the start of the season, to rock solid. The players any team has available always matter. Do we have the right players at the club in every position?
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I thought we were all shit at the start of the season due to no pre-season Tom?

I’ll ignore that your post has nothing at all to do with what I posted.
 
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