Could say this about any of the top 4 teams though.
Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Only 2 goals conceded in 14 games. TWO! That is some impressive stuff anyway you look at it. Our attack needs a bit of quality decision making and this is a very good team in the making. Never felt as relaxed going into games as I do now for a very long time.
He’s done very well for now but as usual I can’t help but feel people are jumping the gun.
A lot of our fans like to downplay this because it looks bad on our current manager. You can't just come in and imprint your identity on your team and make it competitive straight away. You need to spend hundreds of millions and a good 4-5 years of rebuilding before you seem remotely competent.
I'm actually surprised at the transformation your team went through, specifically your defense. It went from being your weakest point to your biggest asset. Tuchel showed more defensive solidity than Simenone's Atletico which is no small feat. Well played.
Tbh even under Lampard pre collapse our defence was starting to look good with Mendy (although obviously no where near this level) and even during the collapse was the least of our problems, can't stress enough just how big a problem Kepa and to an extent Caballero was.
Ironically it was the attack that got Lampard sacked in the end, we became utterly clueless going forward not only in chances created but build up aswell.
Wow people are really getting a bit overexcited. He's on a good run and seems to be doing well but there are plenty of manager and teams that have gone on good runs.
It's hardly a surprise is it?
He's mostly added a defender, played two 6s' in the middle of the park and put more focus on possession over fast transitions.
Another result of that is they score less goals themselves. I'm not downplaying how well organised they are under him but it's not rocket science, and not a style of play which would really fly at United either, which has been proven over a number of years in the last decade.
Don't you mean, how big a problem Kepa was after Frank destroyed his confidence. Chelsea had no no issue getting 3rd and winning the Europa League with Kepa in goal. Change manager and suddenly he is the worst goalkeeper in Premier League history.
How did Frank "destroy his confidence"? By backing him and picking him for months and months despite his horror shows?
There's a lot to slag Lampard off about if that's your thing but if anything, he backed Kepa far too much.
Why? United have been a negative team for quite some time now and if anything Tuchel has proven in the past that he has a positive outlook on the game, so one would assume that their rather moderate attacking output is more of a short term issue than a long term philosophy.
Yes it's early doors but he'll make top 4 pretty sure about that! Also interesting to see how far he can go in the CL. Apart from City he's probably got the best squad of all other PL clubs including ours. Difference now is he's got them performing which Lampard didn't do.
Kante and Kovacic in midfield: How's that for starters?
Reece James should walk into the England line-up at RB.
Ziyech beginning to show his worth.
He can also rotate that squad without really weakening what he puts out on the pitch. Which is what he is doing.
I'm not convinced however with Werner and believe they need a top striker (Kane or Haaland) to be complete.
Kante and Kovacic in midfield: How's that for starters?
Reece James should walk into the England line-up at RB.
Ziyech beginning to show his worth.
He can also rotate that squad without really weakening what he puts out on the pitch. Which is what he is doing.
I'm not convinced however with Werner and believe they need a top striker (Kane or Haaland) to be complete.
Reece James was excellent last night. Really impressed so far. I wonder if any nation ever had as many good RBs as England right now.
Gung ho style of play certainly didn't help Kepa, some of his technical weaknesses were brought to the fore and I felt he was used as a scapegoat when in reality our defence generally was not good, Kepa was only part of the problem. That is why he looked better in the Sarri season.
I reckon we've got to loan him somewhere now ASAP given hard to imagine us getting a fee we could accept, really hard to see him making a comeback with us.
Yesterday summed us up under Tuchel, especially last 20 minutes. We look a decent and pretty balances side now, just so wasteful in attacking areas, poor decisions very often from our attacking players. Should have put the game to bed before well before Emerson goal.
He was utter dogshit for us last season and Lampard continually picking him nearly cost us top 4.
He was letting in shots that I would save. That's nothing to do with our style of play.
Let's be honest, Kepa should have played his last game for Chelsea the day he refused to be subbed for the penalty shootout.
The fact that Sarri had to walk back publicly was a bad thing for the club.
I explained why in my very next sentence, LvG and Jose were both deemed way too negative or unadventurous for us.
I'm not saying Tuchel is that bad, but you've been on this forum long enough. Our fans aren't happy even when we win 3-0 sometimes, never mind averaging a goal a game.
I also disagree with you assessment of both us and Tuchel overall. We are in no way negative. We may not be gung ho in our approach but we are not a defensive team. And Tuchel wasn't exactly all guns blazing at PSG either, despite having 2 of the top 5 attackers in world football at his disposal.
Chelsea will undoubtedly improve their scoring rate (can't really get much worse), I was just pointing out that their new defensive record is not exactly a shock given the current set up.
Of course, that was just plain stupidity - and we still lost the game. What a moron he was then and there.
I think you have the wrong image of Tuchel. He aims to be Guardiola pretty much, he's not a negative or destructive coach by any means. He had all his teams playing exciting attacking football, at least relative to their quality, so far. I expect this to happen at Chelsea as well.
Think they did very well against Atletico, a very cynical team.
Didn't you win it? Edit: Nope I remembered it wrong..
The club didn't seem to have much of a problem with LvG or Jose though, as long as they didn't miss top 4!?
And I have no doubt that most people would describe Solskjaer's United as a counter attacking team. Especially against the big(ger) teams it's actually quite obvious.
As for Tuchel: he worships Guardiola, at Dortmund he set a record for goals scored in a CL group stage, at PSG he averaged over 2.5 goals a game in the league. I really don't see how you could call him negative, unless you're solely basing this on these games at Chelsea.
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Not really sure we are a counter attacking team, we are just good at it. Ole is clearly trying to love away from it and that is why our defence has been so high in recent games, even against the big teams.
I don't think anyone can reasonably call his time at Chelsea "negative" either. We're not scoring loads but that not because we're sitting back and praying for mistakes to hit opponents on the counter, it's that the forwards have not been particularly incisive.
He's done brilliantly so far. The transformation in their defence is astonishing. The tactical imprint has also been surprisingly immediate to take effect. Signs of a really high quality coach. Have to admit a bit of envy considering we look so tactically basic.
But remains to be seen how well he does in terms of improving their attack and obviously in the transfer market.
But remains to be seen how well he does in terms of improving their attack and obviously in the transfer market.
I mean you can use possession defensively, too and it seems to be quite clear that his first priority after arriving was to stabilize the defense. But knowing Tuchel's previous jobs it seems pretty safe to assume that his is just a temporary state. And getting the attack firing will be his next priority.
What else would you call it? He's playing a defensive first double pivot, he's signed and now keeps playing Daniel James in attack, he's spend big on a fullback that can't attack. When the opponent's defense offers up space behind the games are good, when they are passive the team doesn't know what to do with the ball and you end up with a ton of tumescent games against supposed pushovers. But I guess this thread isn't about that.
They’re rumoured to be targeting Haaland, Kounde and tchouameni. All fantastic and exactly the players we should be after.
Chelsea will leave us behind in the next two years I have no doubt. They’re a club who are serious about challenging city, unlike us.
Chelsea will leave us behind in the next two years I have no doubt. They’re a club who are serious about challenging city, unlike us.
Why does counter attacking = defensive/negative? We counter from any position we win the ball from if it's available. We do not try to sit back and soak up pressure, we try to dominate as best we can. Sometimes the better teams pin us back but it's not by design like it was under Jose, they are just good teams having a spell with the ball.
I'm not basing my thoughts solely on Chelsea, we've played against Tuchel 5 times in the last couple of years and I haven't seen this amazing attacking from his teams once.
Please check the record for under Ole for his first 14 games in charge. Besides showing your post is garbage, it also shows initial change for a new manager is not always sustained.
Who tf is that last guy.
Brilliant young defensive / central midfielder who plays for Monaco. Bossed it against PSG earlier this season.
Probably the best young cdm in Europe. Also has an excellent passing range. Most will know of him soon enough.
They said the same last summer when we fecked our transfer window and they seemingly bought everyone they wanted. They also had similar views about Lampard and Arteta being able to implement their tactics straight away when they were in the early stages of their time at their clubs.
It really is like people never learn to wait and see.
Tuchel's done great to implement his system/compromised on his ideals to fit the players he has at his disposal, but they spent £200m+ on a squad that was already Top 4 quality. That they were languishing where they were is because of the incompetence of the previous manager, and where they are now is because they are finally starting to perform to their potential.
No offense but your tie against PSG really should've gone to Paris, they looked a class above you although they were missing Neymar and I believe Verratti, too. Mbappe had an atrocious game on top of that.
I also think his time at PSG comes with an asterisk. He clearly saw it as a stepping stone to present himself to top clubs, get his CV a few trophies, etc. After he was fired at Dortmund, he had the reputation of being a very difficult character and no top clubs were interested. He was even rumored to take over some clubs smaller than the BVB. PSG was a chance for him and he took it but the Chelsea job is much more fitting to him. No divas, a much more balanced squad, more depth, better work ethic, etc. He was still very successful with PSG, mind, and popular among the players. But I think he made many compromises how won't have to make at Chelsea.
Over the 4 games vs PSG, I'd say it was pretty even. We both deserved 2 victories although we won 1 game which they dominated, and they won 1 this season where we were the better team overall.
We were also missing a whole host of players against them, too.
We play a high line with no real CDM.
Whereas this thread is about an 'incredible' manager who's playing 5 at the back and a true CDM too.
We don't play to counter attack now and Ole has brought defensively strong defenders so that we can play on the front foot without having to worry or play extra defenders. If Pogba was available I suspect he'd play in the pivot.
Of course we can only wait and see. As good as Chelsea’s summer was on paper I personally didn’t want any of the targets that they signed.
Kounde, tchouameni, haaland, Sancho are who we should be looking at imo but I have doubts that we will sign any.
All good though, we have Rashy, Scotty, Freddy, MG9 and the worlds most expensive cb.
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5 at the back? Who are we talking about now?
Guess he considers Hudson-Odoi a defender, and also tries to sell us that 3 recent games of playing a higher line suddenly define the whole of Man United's approach
So we have a thread about Chelsea and Tuchel yet we still have the same old German posters coming in and taking swipes at United due to some bizarre bitterness about the club.
Any danger of our wonderful mods taking a look at this as it's literally in every thread in the football forum to some degree and it's putting people off bothering.
Any danger of our wonderful mods taking a look at this as it's literally in every thread in the football forum to some degree and it's putting people off bothering.