Has political correctness actually gone mad?

RedChip said:
Interesting that she even knows the race of the lower sets. Don't they do blind marking?
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I assumed she was basing the comments off seminar participation, but even if they do blind mark there are a number of non problematic ways in which she might know her student grades. We blind marked, but I used to offer students the chance to come and discuss their mark 1-1 and, even if they didn't come to get their essays then, the final step of the marking process was uploading marks to a spreadsheet which had students names on.

They might not though, in which case her obvious biases are without doubt going to influence the marks she gives. And even if they do, if she's teaching a small class of keen students who have come to discuss essays before hand there's not much blind marking can do to stop you knowing who has submitted what.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I assumed she was basing the comments off seminar participation, but even if they do blind mark there are a number of non problematic ways in which she might know her student grades. We blind marked, but I used to offer students the chance to come and discuss their mark 1-1 and, even if they didn't come to get their essays then, the final step of the marking process was uploading marks to a spreadsheet which had students names on.

They might not though, in which case her obvious biases are without doubt going to influence the marks she gives. And even if they do, if she's teaching a small class of keen students who have come to discuss essays before hand there's not much blind marking can do to stop you knowing who has submitted what.
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Yeah, blind marking isn't perfect, especially with small groups, as you have said. But it could help. At our institution, we always have a second marker who has not been involved in the teaching for high value assessments, such as final year projects.
 
Shamana said:
So what were her tweets?
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Apparently she was 16/17 when they were written.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Fabulous. We won't have her racist views on Asians and homosexuals influencing impressionable teens. People think they can just say sorry and all is forgiven but I didn't get any indication that she'd advanced as a person from her comments. Just a sorry (for getting caught).
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Absolutely.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Fabulous. We won't have her racist views on Asians and homosexuals influencing impressionable teens. People think they can just say sorry and all is forgiven but I didn't get any indication that she'd advanced as a person from her comments. Just a sorry (for getting caught).
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She is racist and homophobic because of few tweets as a teenager? That's crazy talk.
 
Martial'sEmergingSmile said:
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Apparently she was 16/17 when they were written.
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“you’re so gay” is homophobic? Probably now but was it 10 years ago? Not so sure about that, presuming the context was light-hearted.

The Asian stuff isn’t particularly nasty either. Surely forgivable from a schoolkid, posted a long time ago?
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
She's only sorry that she used such language. No indication that her actual values have changed. From that I have to conclude that she is the same person who made those tweets.
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what would such an indication be?
she apologised and deleted those tweets, made when she was a teenager.
 
Eendracht maakt macht said:
Not world shocking comments for a 16 year old in my opinion.
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I think they are offensive yeah, but not something I think worth getting wound up about. Personally I find this tendency of people scouring your history and social media history in order to find something to bring you down rather malicious to be honest.
 
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The article says she apologized two years ago, and to me it sounds believable. In the end, that's what criticism of individual racism/bigotry should be about, isn't it? That people understand why it's wrong and change their behaviour. Not that they're punished forever for things they've said a long time ago.

I still understand why people may not like or trust her, that's what she has to live with. But barring exceptional circumstances, people should get a chance to do better, which isn't a blank cheque anyway.
 
Synco said:
The article says she apologized two years ago, and to me it sounds believable. In the end, that's what criticism of individual racism/bigotry should be about, isn't it? That people understand why it's wrong and change their behaviour. Not that they're punished forever for things they've said a long time ago.

I still understand why people may not like or trust her, that's what she has to live with. But barring exceptional circumstances, people should get a chance to do better, which isn't a blank cheque anyway.
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It does seem sad if someone cannot be allowed to evolve and mature as a person from the age of 16. Hopefully being older and wiser, with more life experience, she will now be mortified at those stupid tweets, but don't think we should throw teenagers on the scrapheap for life for things like that, especially when they were definitely at the lower end of the spectrum, ie not hate-filled bile.
 
Jippy said:
It does seem sad if someone cannot be allowed to evolve and mature as a person from the age of 16. Hopefully being older and wiser, with more life experience, she will now be mortified at those stupid tweets, but don't think we should throw teenagers on the scrapheap for life for things like that, especially when they were definitely at the lower end of the spectrum, ie not hate-filled bile.
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Exactly. Plus context is everything. And the goalposts are constantly moving re what is and isn’t acceptable to say (which is good) so it’s unfair to judge decade old comments on the standards we use today. “you’re so gay” was by no means an expression of homophobia 10 years ago (although it’s good it’s fallen out of favour).

 
Pogue Mahone said:
Exactly. Plus context is everything. And the goalposts are constantly moving re what is and isn’t acceptable to say (which is good) so it’s unfair to judge decade old comments on the standards we use today. “you’re so gay” was by no means an expression of homophobia 10 years ago (although it’s good it’s fallen out of favour).
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It most certainly was.
 
nimic said:
It most certainly was.
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My memory’s not great but wasn’t there an effort to differentiate gay as a behaviour from gay as a sexual preference at around that time? Acting gay is not the same as being gay. Hence stuff like that Katy Perry song (which would never get released now; rightfully so) Sort of a misguided attempt to take the sting out of genuine homophobia.
 
Calling someone/something 'gay', when I was a teenager, mostly had nothing to do with actually suggesting that someone was gay. It was like a catchall, childish insult that people used in literally any scenario, for a person, place, or thing. Now, obviously it was rooted in the insinuation that being gay was bad, so it was still coming from a place of homophobia, but as a stupid teenager, people just use common, idiotic words like that, without thinking of things like origin. I would certainly find it incredibly harsh to hold that against someone 15 years later, if they had genuinely apologised for it. The Asian stuff on the other hand is less excusable, as it's more explicit racism.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
My memory’s not great but wasn’t there an effort to differentiate gay as a behaviour from gay as a sexual preference at around that time? Acting gay is not the same as being gay. Hence stuff like that Katy Perry song (which would never get released now; rightfully so) Sort of a misguided attempt to take the sting out of genuine homophobia.
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There was, but my conclusion is not the same as yours. To me that wasn't an attempt to take the sting out of homophobia, but an example of everyday homophobia.
 
Conor said:
Calling someone/something 'gay', when I was a teenager, mostly had nothing to do with actually suggesting that someone was gay. It was like a catchall, childish insult that people used in literally any scenario, for a person, place, or thing. Now, obviously it was rooted in the insinuation that being gay was bad, so it was still coming from a place of homophobia, but as a stupid teenager, people just use common, idiotic words like that, without thinking of things like origin. I would certainly find it incredibly harsh to hold that against someone 15 years later, if they had genuinely apologised for it. The Asian stuff on the other hand is less excusable, as it's more explicit racism.
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Yeah it was a playground insult up and down the land, certainly still in the 1990s, and beamed into our living rooms as mainstream entertainment, eg in Friends. Thankfully everyone became more empathetic and understanding and we moved on. Same with words like 'spastic' and 'retard', with this site being an example.
 
nimic said:
There was, but my conclusion is not the same as yours. To me that wasn't an attempt to take the sting out of homophobia, but an example of everyday homophobia.
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Your conclusion is probably the correct one (I did say misguided!) but my point is that you could make a good case that a lot of people who used the phrase at the time did so without any genuine malice, or as a way to express their own homophobia. Especially teenagers, who invariably get caught up in whatever popular buzzwords and catchphrases are doing the rounds at the time. When you have a song with that title in the pop music charts it’s easy to assume repeating it in a tweet would not constitute hate speech. Certainly seems incredibly harsh to label someone a homophobe for using the phrase 10 years ago, when they (and society in general) didn’t know better.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Your conclusion is probably the correct one (I did say misguided!) but my point is that you could make a good case that a lot of people who used the phrase at the time did so without any genuine malice, or as a way to express their own homophobia. Especially teenagers, who invariably get caught up in whatever popular buzzwords and catchphrases are doing the rounds at the time. When you have a song with that title in the pop music charts it’s easy to assume repeating it in a tweet would not constitute hate speech. Certainly seems incredibly harsh to label someone a homophobe for using the phrase 10 years ago, when they (and society in general) didn’t know better.
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I see where you're coming from, at least.

For me the "asian" stuff was worse, I definitely won't hold it particularly against someone that they used "gay" as an insult as a teenager a decade ago.
 
I think as teenagers using the phrase "gay" it's kind of mostly used as a tease for teenage guys who are bit sensitive and are perhaps a bit effeminate or both. That doesnt mean of course that rampant homophobia isn't a real thing with teenage bullies. I've only encountered it with adult's who are into trying to be overly macho and pretend to well hard.
 
berbatrick said:
what would such an indication be?
she apologised and deleted those tweets, made when she was a teenager.
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Something deeper than sorry and complaining that this revelation is distracting from the people and causes they care about. Basically, ownership rather than deflection.
 
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nimic said:
I see where you're coming from, at least.

For me the "asian" stuff was worse, I definitely won't hold it particularly against someone that they used "gay" as an insult as a teenager a decade ago.
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Very much this. Maybe it is just due to there being far more instances of that than the homophobia in that picture, but the racism was more appalling.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Something deeper than sorry and complaining that this revelation is distracting from the people and causes they care about. Basically, ownership rather than deflection.
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I still don't see what else you can do than make a geniune apology about some tweets you made 10 years ago as a teenager. If you've cut it out a long time ago, I don't really what else you can do about some tweets. Personally I'm not really into this mass public shaming that you have to wear as a cross the rest of your life over some offensive tweets you made as a teenager.
 
Will be interesting sometime in the near future when meat-eating will be on par with slavery historically
 
Shamana said:
I still don't see what else you can do than make a geniune apology about some tweets you made 10 years ago as a teenager. If you've cut it out a long time ago, I don't really what else you can do about some tweets. Personally I'm not really into this mass public shaming that you have to wear as a cross the rest of your life over some offensive tweets you made as a teenager.
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I'm Canadian. I know that sorry doesn't mean shit. It's not genuine ownership of your actions.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
I'm Canadian. I know that sorry doesn't mean shit. It's not genuine ownership of your actions.
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What would be ownership of her actions be in this case? Apart from a sincere apology and resolving not to do it again, I don't really know what you can do to show that you have shifted your attitude if you don't repeat your behaviour.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Pretty sure by the time that happens nature will have cancelled us anyway.
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Yeah, probably. But it is mad (and good) how quickly stuff goes from widespread to completely unacceptable. The level of casual racism and homophobia when I was in school is mind-blowing when you think back to it. Like a different world. And that was “only” 30 years ago.
 
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