European Super League

[Uniquim]

Threatening to ban players from representing their countries if they take part in this competition is absolutely shocking.

It has happened before, so there is precedence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Dorado_(Colombian_football)

 

[crossy1686]

I'm so sorry, let me clarify. By 'merit', I meant winning football matches. Not winning on social media.

We have, us and the other clubs have won many, many games and big trophies, and therefore gathered large followings. Or does that not account for anything anymore?

 

[ReallyUSA]

I've seen a couple of tweets suggesting that Chelsea and Man City didn't want this and were backed into a corner to "join up or be left out".

Stinks of a club leak to try and paint themselves as victims and only makes them look weak in my opinion. If it's true, Roman and the Man City people should've said "we don't need the money, feck off".

Oh the honorable Chelsea and Man City. Hilarious

 

[devilish]

I'm not talking about us. It's funny, you're the second poster in a couple of days that can't handle your club or opinion being criticised so need to have a pop at Everton when they aren't even in the discussion.

Ah right, so you're style of play is unsuited so instead of doing what football is all about and creating tactics, styles etc. to win the league that you're in you'll decide to just hop off to another league that you have no idea if you'll be good in that either.

The reason I dislike this is not because of anything to do with Everton or the PL. It has everything to do with the fact that this goes against so many principles of what makes football brilliant. Promotion/Relegation, domestic rivalries, grassroots football etc.

You nailed me here. Everyone in here knows how much I hate any form of criticism towards Manchester United.

I've said it already that this is a step too far from my taste. However that had nothing to do with that specific post. As said before, I find it hypocritical that owners of smaller clubs would criticise the big six's decision to enter the European super league considering that they'll probably do the same if given the opportunity. Back in the day we used to laugh at Serie A clubs who went full defence mode to get that point or two needed to remain in the elite league. Well most small-mid EPL clubs are doing the same and we all know why £££

 

[Zehner]

True that.

You would still have to wait for 5 years till the contract expires.

You have 3 billions, but i still won't sell you my new shinning toy for you to play with.

A childish game, but hell, you fight fire with fire.



A contract is the law. You put in the contract that you can't play for anybody else during your time in the club.
Not all good players could play for the SL 20 clubs.
Young players....rising stars. Haalands, Mbappes, etc. We all know where they started.

Yes of course but the question is if existing contracts are already designed for such scenarios. I suspect they have some clauses in there that prevent players from doing activities that might prevent them from fulfilling their contractual duties (playing football at a high level), too, but I still doubt this has absolutely no effect on fees. In the end, the regulations of UEFA and FIFA were there to ensure some degree of fairness when clubs dealt with each other. The ESL has absolutely no interest to find fair solutions for both parties, they are only interested in getting the best players to the member clubs.

It'll also be interesting how the exit will play out legally. The broadcasters will be fuming and refusing to pay what they promised, arguing that the leagues won't fulfill their contractual duties if the biggest clubs aren't playing. And the leagues will sue the clubs since they are the ones responsible for it. But I'm sure Perez etc. had their legal teams check those things in advance anyway.

All this is a gigantic mess, really. It not only screwed this season for good (there's literally nothing to be excited about anymore and all the emotions invested were pointless), it also effectively erased history. If the project is successful, in 10 years time, few people will care who won the CL how often. It'll just be an irrelevant former competition out of a different era. And the fans will be stripped off football in general because what should we watch? I want to see the best players but I don't want to watch the ESL. I hope the clubs will be hit as hard as possible. feck them. Wouldn't mind all of them losing their stakes and facing bankruptcy going forward.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

As opposed to money from the CL and PL? Pure greed.

The obviously think it will be even more money or what is the point.

 

[VorZakone]

Of course it's based on merit, but it's based on a merit that no one likes. It's based on viewing metrics and popularity of a club, that's what gets you in the SL, something which successful clubs like United have worked hard on for decades. If we all get kicked out of the PL and lets say Southampton go on to win it multiple times, will they grow a bigger following? Will they get access to the SL? Of course they will.

Top 4 isn't a trophy, United aim to win all competitions they play in, that won't change. And the fear of relegation isn't something that's been spurring us on for decades.

So far it hasn't been indicated that these 15 founding clubs can be replaced. They will automatically play in the Super League.

 

[balaks]

As I said above, if they could find a way to get other teams in the competition, I don't see the issue. By other teams I'm referring to inviting them not based on their status and glamour.

As to the ticket holder argument, I do not see its point. United will still play in the EPL.

It's possible they won't be - would you still be happy then?

 

[duffer]

It does make you think whether the Americans pushed this through.
(Kroenke, Glazers and FSG)

Nobody from Chelsea or Man City is on the board either.

I think I'm even more disappointed than if it was their plan. I know it's easy for me to call them cowards but It kinda feels that way.

If Roman had said "feck this, this is beyond even me", imagine the reaction!

 

[crossy1686]

That is a mindset of someone insanely privileged and spoiled. How many clubs should then realistically exist? 10? What's the point of having millions of professional footballers if only 200 of the best can do the trick? Disgusting attitude.

I never said that. What's the point in having an elite competition where the teams in it are not elite? That's my point. Not sure why you're so caring about the mighty Midjhitland all of a sudden, never saw you defending their honour before.

 

[CG1010]

The only way this could be stopped is:

All other clubs in the Prem/La liga/Bundesliga/Italian/French leagues decide not to sell players to the Superleague clubs.

In 3 years the SL clubs would be fecked.

No Mbappes, no Bruno, etc.

They could have all the money in the world, yet, they couldn't spend it.
Sure, you could buy brazilians and other South Americans....

Those young Mbappes/Brunos don't go to these clubs in the first place or go with specific contract clauses. In football, the power is with the top players and big clubs. The latter are exercising it and they will distribute part of the pie to the top players to keep them happy.

 

[RexHamilton]

Give athletes and the sporting departments of football clubs a bit more credit. Most footballers and managers compete for the love of the game and proving themselves. League structures exist in all sports all around the world and are proven as a successful sporting format.

People are genuinely lamenting the death of a top four race, which I am amazed by. This has been the antithesis of what domestic football has been about for over a 100 years.

That’s not the point anyone is making. Look at Liverpool this year. They won the league last year. Then hit an awful run this year and couldn’t win the league by February.

If this situation happened this year and there was no top four incentive, Liverpool could have put all their eggs in the CL Basket and played the kids in the league, not caring about league position because they’re too far back to win. This, then compromises the league as some clubs are playing Liverpool’s first team while some are playing their kids. Every team rotates now, but imagine a club literally playing their reserves/ under 23’s in the league to rest players for Europe.

 

[Nani Nana]

Surprised that PSG aren't in already.

The three open slots seem clearly designed for bayern, dortmund and PSG to enter as founders.

You reckon PSG's Qatari owners want to bin the 2022 World Cup in Qatar ?

 

[Ixion]

Why are people obsessed with relegation all of a sudden? We haven't been relegated for decades and now we don't want to play in a competition where we can't be forced to play teams like Granada every week just because we had a bad season last year? From what I under stand the final stages of the SL involve knock out football so there's your 'relegation'.

What do you mean obsessed with relegation all of a sudden? It has always been there so there has been no reason for people to be up in arms about it before. Teams like Leeds could be in the Champions League Semi-Finals one season and relegated soon after, that is the way football should be. If you have a terrible season and don't qualify for the Champions League then you don't get in, that is fair.

You want United to get special status where it is irrelevant how they perform and if you can't see how that is bullshit for all the other clubs not involved then youre incredibly selfish and spoilt.

 

[Tom Cato]

Public opinion is all with UEFA on this. They can probably do a LOT of damage to the clubs in question and have the fans of the club's backing.

There are so many problems with this league:

No fear of relegation
5 teams qualify. Do they have to re-qualify the next year, even if they win the contest? What if they outpeform most teams? It renders the principle of fair competition null and void
No ethical governing body or impartial governing body. Perez is the chairman. What happens if Real Madrid has a complaint?
Will they get referees? They're all UEFA and FIFA licensed referees. Will the Super League simply hire them and have them ref 10-15 games a season each while getting excluded from reffing in domestic leagues?

I love this club so much. And I will absolutely support UEFA, and the Premier League if they choose to go nuclear on the club, strip us from all points and send us to the championship. There is legitimately no course of action that is too strong to stop this from happening.

 

[gorky_utd]

So there are still vacant positions in the proposed 20 teams ESL. I think they will try to sign contract with EPL or La liga to allow the best team outside "top 6" to enter their competition. One thing is sure, no small team from smaller league will ever be invited. In terms of not having relegation, the big 12 will probably have to maintain a certain points over 2 3 season to not get punished (I mean less money because that is all that matters to them).

 

[Josep Dowling]

What's wrong with it is that you don't qualify on merit. The one positive about having billionaire owners is that they actually have to invest huge sums maintaining very good football teams, because otherwise there's an acute risk of missing out on CL qualification. No more. You've got a free ride.

Unless the clubs name is Manchester United, who have barely qualified for the competition over the last 8 years, even with all the advantages of having a billionaire owner?

If the Super Leagues happens the likes of Arsenal, Spurs and United won’t get any better. The money will flow in and the only people who will benefit are the owners, players and agents. No doubt fans will be expected to pay a premium to go to games and there will be yet another separate payment service to watch games on TV.

 

[Flyer1]

No, you are dead wrong! People are upset because the clubs are trying to increase their revenue at the expense of fair competition. That's the key bit. I am all for getting an official tractor sponsor if it means more money for transfers, wages, etc. But this is a blatant cash grab that damages the integrity of the sport.

That's well put, that's exactly how I feel as a city fan. I'd like to think that this show of greed and contempt for fans will lead to a backlash and more fan involvement in decisions.

 

[BlackShark_80]

Last night, when 12 big clubs of the Superleague announced resignations from ECA (association of European clubs). They also resigned from all UEFA committees and panels with Agnelli leaving the ECA management, Nasser Al-Khelaifi becomes it’s executive boss.

 

[balaks]

That is a mindset of someone insanely privileged and spoiled. How many clubs should then realistically exist? 10? What's the point of having millions of professional footballers if only 200 of the best can do the trick? Disgusting attitude.

So many people are being outed in this thread as being plastic football fans and they don't even realise it. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[Gambit]

Surprised that PSG aren't in already.

The three open slots seem clearly designed for bayern, dortmund and PSG to enter as founders.

World cup in Qatar this year. They'll have agreed to it in principle but won't sign on officially until after the world Cup.

 

[JPRouve]

Nobody from Chelsea or Man City is on the board either.

I think I'm even more disappointed than if it was their plan. I know it's easy for me to call them cowards but It kinda feels that way.

If Roman had said "feck this, this is beyond even me", imagine the reaction!

An other billionaire would say, "Good I'll take his place".

 

[Lay]

uefa have really thrown the toys out the pram.

 

[Uniquim]

I've seen a couple of tweets suggesting that Chelsea and Man City didn't want this and were backed into a corner to "join up or be left out".

Stinks of a club leak to try and paint themselves as victims and only makes them look weak in my opinion. If it's true, Roman and the Man City people should've said "we don't need the money, feck off".

The Athletic wrote:

"The biggest drivers of the current Super League proposals are, according to multiple sources, Real Madrid, Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal. The clubs’ statement said that Perez would be the chairman of the league, while Manchester United’s Joel Glazer and Agnelli, the Juventus chairman would be vice-presidents. It was reported that Liverpool’s John W Henry, and Arsenal’s Stan Kroenke would also have vice-chairman roles."

[skipped the part about Tottenham]

"Manchester City and Chelsea were later subscribers to the plan and City’s positioning is particularly ironic as the club have long complained that the majority of “super clubs” in Europe have conspired to limit the club’s spending and squeeze them out of the established elite. The possible participation of Chelsea and City has been described by sources as more out of a desire not to be left behind, than a fervent desire to lead the charge."

"In Spain, Barcelona’s debt is in excess of €1 billion while Real Madrid’s own debt is in excess of €900 million. In a Covid world that has decimated growth and revenue streams, the windfall of the Super League has an obvious pull."

 

[duffer]

Oh the honorable Chelsea and Man City. Hilarious

Indeed. If you're going to be part of an unethical shitshow, at least be one of the people in charge!

It's just a few Tweets though and my interpretation of them though.

 

[Brightonian]

We have, us and the other clubs have won many, many games and big trophies, and therefore gathered large followings. Or does that not account for anything anymore?

History is great, and should be respected. But surely you recognise that any healthy competition must be based on whether you can win football games now. It must be possible, in principle, to play your way to the top.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

To those people who think it'll be cool to play in big games every week, they won't be big games after a couple of rounds of fixtures.

We'll genuinely be looking forward to FA cup games against Bolton over yet another game against Barca.

Agree. It will get boring after a while. Then what?

 

[Nani Nana]

Because I like to watch strong games and I'd like to watch them weekly if I could.

Playing the likes of Milan and Internazionale and Barcelona (this season) is no different than facing Everton or West Ham.

Neither CL finalists from last season are in this Superleague thus far either. Bid farewell to measuring up against Bayern.

 

[Cardboard elk]

New leagues should be set up all over Europe, for clubs not having private ownership at more than 49%. Start from scratch. Will not happen, but would be the only solution to save football.

 

[JPRouve]

World cup in Qatar this year. They'll have agreed to it in principle but won't sign on officially until after the world Cup.

Yeah, the leaks say that they haven't committed to it and then mentions the relationship between Al Khelaifi and Ceferin. It feels like some massaging is being operated.

 

[lsd]

The only way this could be stopped is:

All other clubs in the Prem/La liga/Bundesliga/Italian/French leagues decide not to sell players to the Superleague clubs.

In 3 years the SL clubs would be fecked.

No Mbappes, no Bruno, etc.

They could have all the money in the world, yet, they couldn't spend it.
Sure, you could buy brazilians and other South Americans....

All the other clubs would have no money to pay their best players wages so thats never going to be an option.

The teams involved in the Super League have everything in their favour here. They hold all the cards and know without them the other teams are screwed

 

[Zehner]

I am, but there's a lot of people on high horses in here who themselves would sell their granny for the money available in the SL. Football isn't dead, it's going to be fine.

You turn it into a popularity contest. This isn't a democracy but a competition. You don't give the membership to the team who earned it through football but who's best at advertising what they do. Why do we even play the games? We could just vote who should win it.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

l

I haven't had chance! I'm getting about 15 replies a second at the moment. I'll read up on everything tomorrow when the dust settled. Don't really care right now as the sentiment around it is 95% negative so there's a total imbalance of rational thinking

No, the plan has been in the public domain for several months, people have had plenty of time to digest it

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Fergie on the super league a few years ago...

https://www.thestatesman.com/sports...lams-world-super-league-plans-1502833484.html

 

[justsomebloke]

I’ve seen a few people make this point and I believe it reveals more about them, than it says about the clubs and players. I’m amazed by how many people are now openly admitted that the PL for them is in large part just an extended qualifying competition for Europe.

Give athletes and the sporting departments of football clubs a bit more credit. Most footballers and managers compete for the love of the game and proving themselves. League structures exist in all sports all around the world and are proven as a successful sporting format.

People are genuinely lamenting the death of a top four race, which I am amazed by. This has been the antithesis of what domestic football has been about for over a 100 years.

I think you're missing the point. The key thing is the primacy of the national leagues. That primacy has rested on several things. One is that it remains the main focus of most fans. Another is that they have been the only Leagues - the CL is just a tournament. SL is not a tournament - it is in effect a NA-style League with playoffs. A third is that even for clubs to whom the CL is more important than the national league, performing well in the national league is absolute necessity, because otherwise you don't get to the CL. The CL has never been seen by anyone as a threat to the primacy of national leagues, for that reason: It's a lucrative bonus tournament you get if you do well, and what defines "do well" is how you do in your own league.

In short - the national league is the baseline, for all clubs. This breaks that link, which really changes everything. It turns that level above into the main focus, leaving the national leagues as an afterthought which clubs can care or not care about as they choose - and which will mean less for the financial baseline than the SL does. Like the FA cup now.

That does not mean that people only care about the EPL because it decides who gets to the CL. On the contrary, it shows that people care about the national leagues remaining the primary focus.

 

[crossy1686]

They're being released from the requirement to try and win things. They're being told that the things they won historically are enough and what happens going forwards is no longer relevant. Everyone else is being told that it's too late to play their way to the top - they missed the cut-off.

Are they feck. You're telling me that there's no requirement to win a game moving forward? That's it? Ambition completely gone? Football now becomes a bunch of meaningless friendlies?

If that's the case then what's the point in playing now? Everyone still gets paid, why try and win any competition, especially the PL, I mean we're in it next year anyway.

The reality is, football does nothing but punish, it never rewards. Had a shit season? Relegated. Missed out on a couple of transfer targets? Relegated. Got a few injuries? Title gone.

I just hope that the players don't have the same attitude as some of you in here.

 

[Adisa]

It's a glorified friendly.

 

[GBBQ]

The only way this could be stopped is:

All other clubs in the Prem/La liga/Bundesliga/Italian/French leagues decide not to sell players to the Superleague clubs.

In 3 years the SL clubs would be fecked.

No Mbappes, no Bruno, etc.

They could have all the money in the world, yet, they couldn't spend it.
Sure, you could buy brazilians and other South Americans....

The SL clubs are the most decorated and iconic clubs in the world, the best players are going to want to join them. If non SL clubs really refuse to sell then it would backfire on them; said players will run down their contract and join for free meaning the 50m+ Sporting would have received by selling Bruno to United will be gone and surely that has bigger implications for a club in financial difficulties. Also players are likely to sign shorter contracts as a result so they have more power to move on their own terms.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

The teams in it have huge followings and interest outside of the UK. They're being rewarded for winning things and having fans.

What was the last trophy Inter won? Why are they in it? Unless they're counting the winnings of ex-United players in their "history".

 

[crossy1686]

So far it hasn't been indicated that these 15 founding clubs can be replaced. They will automatically play in the Super League.

When the dust settles we'll have some requirement at some point. Like I said previously, if for some reason Southampton go on to become one of the most successful and most viewed PL teams over the next few years, you think they won't be extended an invitation?