Not really, see things as they are, not how we would like them to be.
Generally we get the politicians we deserve, we elect them and give them our vote, but never really trust them... its an awful job but someone has to do it!
Westminster Politics
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Not really, see things as they are, not how we would like them to be.
Generally we get the politicians we deserve, we elect them and give them our vote, but never really trust them... its an awful job but someone has to do it!
The line that Boris and his government are spouting; we are focused on delivering the vaccine programme is now wearing pretty thin.
It is the NHS which is delivering the vaccine programme.
And the success of it means that the process itself is working and as a result, cannot be taking up much of their time.
It is the NHS which is delivering the vaccine programme.
And the success of it means that the process itself is working and as a result, cannot be taking up much of their time.
You're the one with the spade mate... and the 'I hate Boris' 'T' shirt I suspect.. have a nice day and stop taking yourself too seriously
The British electorate are apathetic to politicians who negligently let thousands of innocent people die.
To put it plainly, we're fecked.
I don't think the Daily Mail comment section is an accurate barometer of the electorate.
I'd actually disagree heavily, unfortunately. I think the Daily Mail comment section accurately captures the general sentiment of the wider nation on a wide number of current events & politics, and I'm struggling to think of a topic where that has proven to be otherwise.
From their own traffic data back in 2016, 30% of their traffic is UK based. By those rough fag packet calculations, the comment section isn't probably isn't reflective of the electorate and swamped, like Twitter and most online platforms, with agenda driven people (either paid campaigners, state funded propaganda machines, or genuine individuals with feelings on the topic - the latter probably being the smallest section).
The conservatives are not representing the majority though. They are beneficiaries of the rigged system they have carefully built.
Also, saying that all politicians are liars or crap or whatever, is not a reasonable excuse to vote for the worst liars who are clearly so ready to spend tax money for their own benefit. Surely the way to encourage a more honest breed of politician, is to reward those with geater integrity.
If all you are really concerned with is a stable housing market, low taxes for the wealthy and less regulation, then have the balls to admit to yourself that you actually don't care about the wider community. Then maybe you'll stop making such spurious arguments to justify your vote.
With @villain on this.
Which also means it will take 5-10 years by which time the people involved will likely be out of office anyway. The Iraq inquiry wasn't published until 7 years after it was announced.
Most people who visit websites are unlikely to leave comments, so the traffic doesn't really matter in this particular subject.
Secondly, I doubt that a random person in America, Europe or wherever will feel that passionate about British politics or be well versed on it to create an account to comment or vote on matters relating to it.
Thirdly, the location of the commentator is right next to the comments so you can see where someone is (i'm not sure if this is changeable though)
& finally, the top comments generally follow a trend which can't be denied & like I said - i'm struggling to think of a topic where that has gone against the trend.
I think you will find that they are, at this time, but agreed it won't last forever.
I do not have to justify my vote and you have no idea what it was/will be!
Having a stable housing market benefits anyone seeking to purchase, wanting low taxes are a given, nobody likes paying them, although of course we have to do, i.e. the only certainties in life are 'death and taxes'; regulations that work are needed, ensuring everyone adheres is the trick, of course ....spurious regulations don't work for that reason, they can be avoided.
Why didn't Hancock answer the questions directly? He didn't answer the question about care homes and testing.
You're the one with the spade mate... and the 'I hate Boris' 'T' shirt I suspect.. have a nice day and stop taking yourself too seriously
Some people never learn.
24% of the voting age population voted Tory in the last election.
And from what I understand, a fair number were from postal voting.
And yet, Nigel Farage is campaigning for the abolition of postal voting.
Now I acknowledge that this all stems from the Trump side where he was trying to convince everyone of voter fraud in the last US election.
But it is also true that he wants this stopped in the UK as well.
Minority governments always do well in a low turnout.
There are much more important things to resolve that postal voting.
But we all know what Farage is capable of.
What a surprise...
I didn't vote for them matey.
FPTP is crap. It needs reforming so Labour and The Tories can both be discarded in the dustbin of history where they belong.
They are absolutely not represent the majority. I doubt I need to post voting figures to prove it, do I?
If you didn't vote for them, why spend so much time excusing their behaviour?
Having low standards for politicians is normal, absolutely. What I’d say is those standards have regressed significantly in the last decade and people just move with the tide, not recognising as it moves further and further away. Which I would hold directly responsible for that continued decline, which has very real world impacts. I find it strange how people can acknowledge their own role in that, but somehow not hold themselves accountable for the damage it does.
Jesus wept. Those are some deeply unpleasant and alarmingly dim people. I want to think they're bots or trolls. Please say they are.
I so wish you were right
How about you don't vote for blatantly dishonest politicians and get a different set of politicians you deserve?
Voting is literally voting for how you would like things to be.
Last time I looked Tories had an 18% lead over Labour (nearest party)
I didn't say who I voted for and I am not excusing anything, just telling it as it is!
Its not so much decline in standards of politicians, its mostly that we now know more about them, the 24/7 news cycle has seen to that; how many senior politicians have actually resigned their parliamentary seat, (not just any ministerial office they hold) over principled matters in the last 20 years as compared to the previous 20 years?
Most of the Tory Remainers were drummed out of the party by Boris, with one or two notable exceptions, as far as I could remember none of the Labour shadow cabinet resigned over Brexit, one way of the other!
Because no politician says "look here, vote for me I am a blatant liar" . We often brand people, especially politicians, as liars when they don't do what we want, or don't agree with us, or take actions we oppose. Being 'economical with the truth' and/or avoiding the question are favourite past time of many politicians, and it isn't always lying, in fact in many political circles its looked on as an asset/skill, much prized by Party leaders when selecting Ministers.
Also people tend to vote for a party, rather than for a candidate, admittedly sometimes that is not the case, but with the majority it is; people often vote to prevent someone/party gaining office, rather than for the ideals of the one they actually cast their vote for especially in bye-elections.
Politics is a 'murky' business and a bit like diplomacy it can be as 'War, by alternative means' and like Wars the first victim is often the truth!
You wont find many 'Mother Teresa's' in politics.
Are you just trolling?
You know full well that the tories got less than 50% of the vote, from a 2/3s turnout.
I am not trolling, just looking at latest evidence available from pollsters which shows the Tory's some 18% ahead of the next major party which is Labour, with the rest virtually no where.
So I am led to believe, these are the latest figures, not from something occurring nearly two years ago...or perhaps you believe the Brexit vote taken now would still be the same as before?
If you aren't trolling and genuinely believe the sort of crap in the quote below, then I have to be more direct than normal forum etiquette and question your ability to gather and assess information.
You simply can't be using this as a defence for someone who is widely accepted, from all sides, to be one of the most prolific liars in public life. He, and quite a few around him, have passed well beyond the realm of being 'economical with the truth'. For them, 'twisting statistics', has given way to blatant lying. It wasn't always like this. It doesn't have to be like this. It's worse for us all when it's like this. The tories are the worst offenders by a very long way.
And no, the tories still do not represent the majority of the UK. Not even in the last local elections where their fixed game gave them even more power.
Imagine being accused of lying and then less than a day later, lying again on television over something that is easy to check.
I think I'll stick with psychopath.
I am missing Private Pike. What happened to him?
That's not the population though. If you didn't vote last time and don't know who you'll vote for this time you won't show on the party polling. It's essentially active voters.
The actual votes received is the only way to measure it and the Tories are no where near a majority representation. No party ever is really.
Can you clarify the question? You seem to be using “resignations over principled matters” as some kind of proxy for the standards of politicians, but I don’t quite see how...
Or did you misunderstand what I was saying? I wasn’t talking about politicians holding themselves accountable, I was talking about people like you holding yourself accountable for the choices and attitude that allows those politicians to be there and act that way. The perspective you put forward contributes to the standard of politicians we get, you say we get who we deserve, but you don’t take any personal responsibility for your own role in that.
Why is it ok to play a role in having bad politicians run the country, when you know those bad politicians have real world impacts on people’s lives? Why not raise your expectations, your demands, and in doing so raise the standard they are held to and ultimately provide? Instead you seem content to do the opposite. Accept low standards and tell other people that’s just the way it is, encouraging other people to lower their own standards too. How can that not create a worse society?
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Now whose trolling ?
You don't like what you hear so its 'crap' is it? I'm glad I don't gather and assess information like you apparently do, you seem to only listen to the bits you like and what you agree with, everything else is rubbish and anyone who disagrees with you is apparently unable to function properly...and then you wonder why we have the kind of politician we have?
Oh please for heavens sake, so no other politician is at times two-faced, lies, tells half truths and avoids answering questions?
What about Angela Rayner? Someone actually I admire, her personal back story is impressive.
A few months back Dominic Cummings was 'Dominic the Devil' spewing lies on behalf of his master, would not know the truth if it hit him in the face according to Angela, this week Angela is lauding him, he was 'St.Dominic the Blessed' speaking the truth, every sentence he utters is gospel.
Give us a break please!
No, but its the representation of the population being polled just now and the majority of such people are backing the Tories...for now
I don't know your politics, but it sounds to me like you are taking the view that is exactly the kind of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil being practiced by Labour, that caused the problem in the red wall in the first place.
If you are not a Labour person then I apologise.
Caught in a lie to Parliament was 'principled' matter' and called for the resignation of the Minister concerned, it some times was applied to non-ministerial members, who usually just had to make their apologies to the house, but still could retain their seat... until the next election anyway!
It was generally seen as someone taking responsibility for their personal(or their Departments) actions/behaviour and resigning. It was at one time seen as a ''touchstone' element in that it set a tone for the rest of the Country for people in powerful positions to emulate. Unfortunately 'dodging the bullet' became the norm both inside and outside parliament and 'principled resignations' of this kind have dropped considerably.Whether it was politicians following the outside world, or the outside world taking its cue from politicians its hard to say, no doubt someone somewhere may well have studied this in detail and could give you a better answer.
I do hold myself accountable, I have always voted in every election since I was old enough to vote, I am now 75 (so that is a lot of elections and bye-elections) and have voted against candidates (even of my party of choice) when I know someone to be a 'carpet-bagger' type politician. Unfortunately a lot of my fellow citizens, probably the majority don't, and that is the point I was making, people don't vote, by and large for the individual person they vote for the party!
Its not OK and that s not what I am doing. I am pointing out that the status-quo does accept this situation, because, and by now I am sick of repeating most people the MAJORITY vote for the party and not the people running it, which is why Boris at the moment is getting a freebie, once the Tory's ditch him, he'll be gone from public life...probably turn up on game shows like "Would I lie to you".
My whole point was to rail against your assertion that everyone is so biased in politics that they can only see the faults of the other side. This is a bogus argument and what I was calling crap. Funnily enough, you didn't seem to grasp that.
What's the point of this? Really? Of course other politicians do those things. Are you seriously trying to argue that the tories aren't the worst offenders?
It would've been a Fast Show sketch back in the daybe a great meme template.
Sorry don't accept that its not what I said at all as well you know, I said We often brand people, especially politicians, as liars when they don't do what we want, or don't agree with us, or take actions we oppose.... but clearly you do not make the distinct. It's not bogus its true, and I suspect its you are the one failing to grasp the point.
I am not arguing anything I am stating a reality, all politicians can be caught out in their statements as with Angela Raynor, she was 'demonising' Cummings one moment for his comments, then hailing him as the source of all truth the next.