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Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yep, this is pretty much where I'm at as well. the technique or practice of responding to a difficult question or argument by raising a different issue. The word is quite self explanatory.
Most things, including the definitions of logical fallacies, are broader than whatever Trump vs college kids level twitter jousts you've been reading.
But since you didn't actually address any of my points I'll just say again, what some peer says about Alex Scott's accent has no overlap with United fans criticising Pogba's work rate or for having a shit choice of agent. Unfortunately it doesn't bolster your argument.
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So we're hoping our 89m player will finally perform consistently on his last year while running down his contract to leave because we have finally assembled a mostly top class squad so he's no longer the main focus of the team ? I mean the bar for Pogba according to some here is pretty low with such expectations.
United are currently posting a lot Pogba pictures and marketing new away kit with him. I dont think he is going anywhere this summer. At least transfer should not be near. Unfortunately i have feeling that he will move with a free transfer next summer. Can choose his new team and get huge signing bonus.
I think the bar for our club's ability to get the best out of our talent is pretty low, compared to other clubs.
Also while he'll be very, very mindful of not getting injured, because that would be financially ruinous for him in the last year of a contract.
Why? Honestly parting ways with him is the best thing coup whatever you can and reinvest.
I’ve always thought he has huge amounts of ability and is an exciting player to watch.
However, I think he has a propensity to pick and choose his games and is too focused on his image and brand. It would be fair to say Ronaldo is guilty of doing the same, although you could never question his dedication. I think you can, unfortunately, with Pogba.
I don’t think he is a liability like I have seen mentioned on more than one occasion, but he is erratic and to date, has shown little evidence that he can relied upon to perform on a regular basis.
Part of me feels it’s time for him to move on. Despite his qualities, I’m not convinced he will ever live up to the high expectations many place on him, at least not at Utd. Getting a fee, as opposed to losing him on a free is of course the financially prudent thing to do as well.
However, I think he has a propensity to pick and choose his games and is too focused on his image and brand. It would be fair to say Ronaldo is guilty of doing the same, although you could never question his dedication. I think you can, unfortunately, with Pogba.
I don’t think he is a liability like I have seen mentioned on more than one occasion, but he is erratic and to date, has shown little evidence that he can relied upon to perform on a regular basis.
Part of me feels it’s time for him to move on. Despite his qualities, I’m not convinced he will ever live up to the high expectations many place on him, at least not at Utd. Getting a fee, as opposed to losing him on a free is of course the financially prudent thing to do as well.
What exactly is "perform consistently" to you? In my book, as a midfielder, he has had numerous spells where he has consistently been our best performer and very few where he has been performing poorly since he arrived. The fact of the matter is that, yes, we paid 89m for him, and we need to get over that. Is he gonna will us to victory in the premier league? Obviously not. Can we find a midfielder who will clearly, or even probably, perform better than he has? For me, the answer is ofcourse not. Saúl can't get a game and has never played outside of atlético, Leon Goretzka is not leaving Bayern Munich (and is the inferior, if perhaps more focused midfielder) and the rest are just absolutely meh.
Reinvest in who exactly? There's a reason why we are willing to let him go on a free next year. Pride and frustration aside, he is head and shoulders our best option to compete this year. He has shown time and time again what he is capable of doing in a wide variety of positions, against top opposition and under different managers. Choosing to focus on the times he's fallen short is counterproductive given he's most likely gonna stay, and our season will depend on him doing well.
I’ve made it clear it’s different with Pogba, but I agreed to an extent with DDG’s contract and said so at the time.
He was our best player and we needed him, we still do ironically because Henderson hardly set the world alight. Perhaps your example demonstrates this well as when Pogba is finally hounded out of the club by ‘armchair pundits’ and we’ve got McFred doing their thing you might realise getting rid of your best players is never a good thing.
The point is lost on you though because you’d rather get ridiculously literal over one thing I said rather than discuss your initial statement that triggered my response in the first place.
We just bought a WC partner for our 80M CB, and hopefully we'll get a complementary RB for our expensive new RW as well.
Prices don't have as much to do with it, as partnerships and quality. Until we fill our longstanding holes and get top class personnell (coaches included), our players won't be consistent enough to beat teams like Pep's City to the title, regardless of price tags.
Yes, thank you
He's mingling with an outside agent with hoodie on. Suspicious. Bang out of order.
In my view, Pogba staying is quite critical to our hopes of competing for the title this upcoming season but he actually has to perform as the world class player we all know he can be, especially if we sign a DM. When we look around us, amongst our biggest rivals for the title (Man City and Liverpool) we are the least strong in midfield. Whenever we field Mct and Fred there, it significantly weakens our chances of defeating the smaller teams we should be defeating consistently and this is critical for our hopes of lifting the title. We only face City, Liverpool, and Chelsea twice a season in the epl where I feel those two might be useful, which makes a total of 6 games in 38 epl games.
What we need to improve on from last season is making our games against the likes of Leicester, Arsenal, Tottenham or any semi decent team in the league less of a 50/50 and outright being favorites for the win whenever we come up against them. This means dominating them in the actual games and making it less of a contest and this can only be achieved I think by having superior players (we now have them) who perform consistently to the level of ability they have given the system( this one is on Ole). It's the one thing Man city, Liverpool and may be Chelsea has, especially the former two, it's a really huge upset if any of this inferior teams defeat Man city or Pool, usually with a counter then defend for the rest of the game. This odd defeat or draws to this type of teams would happen especially during the course of a season but we need to limit the frequency it does.
This means going into the season with a more dominating and assured style, the signings of Varane and Sancho significantly helps with that, and the other peices crucial to that I believe is Pogba staying and signing a DM. Going into the season with McFred as the starting midfield again would just not help to put a gulf in class between ourselves and the likes of Arsenal, Leicester, Tottenham, Everton etcetera and turning our draws and defeats last season to comfortable wins. A change in system from Ole is of course also needed, we absolutely need to press high more and camp teams in their box more, with waves and waves of attacking until we wear them out, the signing of Varane and hopefully a DM will see to us being able to deal with counters better I believe.
We need to make sure Pogba,Bruno and our array of top class forward options are constantly in the opposition half which significantly raises our odds of winning matches against clearly inferior teams. But consistently playing McFred in games this upcoming season would lead to us resorting to our style of last season, where we would have to sit very deep and then invite clearly inferior teams unto us just to exploit space they leave and try win games from very few but high quality chances attacks. I personally think this style is a far less efficient way to win a game especially when we are competing against the likes of City and Pool in the same league. It just invites far more chances to be created against us and a sizeable portion of those chances would be taking eventually leaving with us too much to do and sometimes having us go behind in almost every game we should be winning comfortably.
Now if we can sell Pogba and get a replacement of his quality for a significantly larger sum than we would ever get for him, then am all for it. But given the financial situation caused by the pandemic and then the fact that we have also already spent a significant sum these window, I don't think that is realistic. For our hopes of going one better than what we achieved last season, it's crucial Pogba stays and then we fund a DM purchase from many of our other sellable assets (players).
What we need to improve on from last season is making our games against the likes of Leicester, Arsenal, Tottenham or any semi decent team in the league less of a 50/50 and outright being favorites for the win whenever we come up against them. This means dominating them in the actual games and making it less of a contest and this can only be achieved I think by having superior players (we now have them) who perform consistently to the level of ability they have given the system( this one is on Ole). It's the one thing Man city, Liverpool and may be Chelsea has, especially the former two, it's a really huge upset if any of this inferior teams defeat Man city or Pool, usually with a counter then defend for the rest of the game. This odd defeat or draws to this type of teams would happen especially during the course of a season but we need to limit the frequency it does.
This means going into the season with a more dominating and assured style, the signings of Varane and Sancho significantly helps with that, and the other peices crucial to that I believe is Pogba staying and signing a DM. Going into the season with McFred as the starting midfield again would just not help to put a gulf in class between ourselves and the likes of Arsenal, Leicester, Tottenham, Everton etcetera and turning our draws and defeats last season to comfortable wins. A change in system from Ole is of course also needed, we absolutely need to press high more and camp teams in their box more, with waves and waves of attacking until we wear them out, the signing of Varane and hopefully a DM will see to us being able to deal with counters better I believe.
We need to make sure Pogba,Bruno and our array of top class forward options are constantly in the opposition half which significantly raises our odds of winning matches against clearly inferior teams. But consistently playing McFred in games this upcoming season would lead to us resorting to our style of last season, where we would have to sit very deep and then invite clearly inferior teams unto us just to exploit space they leave and try win games from very few but high quality chances attacks. I personally think this style is a far less efficient way to win a game especially when we are competing against the likes of City and Pool in the same league. It just invites far more chances to be created against us and a sizeable portion of those chances would be taking eventually leaving with us too much to do and sometimes having us go behind in almost every game we should be winning comfortably.
Now if we can sell Pogba and get a replacement of his quality for a significantly larger sum than we would ever get for him, then am all for it. But given the financial situation caused by the pandemic and then the fact that we have also already spent a significant sum these window, I don't think that is realistic. For our hopes of going one better than what we achieved last season, it's crucial Pogba stays and then we fund a DM purchase from many of our other sellable assets (players).
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I'm hoping Varane was given some assurances on other signings at the club...notably Pogba staying.
Hate him or love him, Pogba makes us better. I believe Pogba has always been more ambitious than our club have been able to deliver...and we might just be getting there.
The biggest problem with Pogba is Raiola. I personally understand Raiola's role and what he does. However, we can't keep having the same circus around Pogba. So a part of me wants him to leave for this reason.
But I believe it will get sorted either way this summer, which I can't wait for. Hopefully sooner rather than later as he's now back at the club.
Hate him or love him, Pogba makes us better. I believe Pogba has always been more ambitious than our club have been able to deliver...and we might just be getting there.
The biggest problem with Pogba is Raiola. I personally understand Raiola's role and what he does. However, we can't keep having the same circus around Pogba. So a part of me wants him to leave for this reason.
But I believe it will get sorted either way this summer, which I can't wait for. Hopefully sooner rather than later as he's now back at the club.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
I like him too. You can like the guy and still think he isn't right for the team anymore, imagine that!
Yep. All part of growing as a human. If you don't check yourself then you're relying on others. Which fails if you don't take the advice when you get it
Imagine we offer Pogba even 450k/week, on the condition that he fires Raiola. That would be the type of circus I enjoy.
Whilst that’s true, it’s also true that he’s not going to sign a new contract so either we lose him again for nothing or we extract some value now whilst we still can
In what world would it be a good idea to pay pogba 450k?Imagine we offer Pogba even 450k/week, on the condition that he fires Raiola. That would be the type of circus I enjoy.
This is the great thing about opinions, no-one is right no-one is wrong!
I think it's pretty clear from a mile off that Pogba is running down his contract and will leave on a free next summer.
Meanwhile he can be a useful player this season but having to fund his replacement from internal funds next season, a season we also want to fund the signing of a world class striker will be impossible to do.
I also think that there is a certain level of cowardice in our indecision wrt this situation. We don't want to make the big call on our biggest signing even when it's clear that he has no intention of staying beyond his current deal. He should be sold, we use the funds to sign a DM and then see who amongst VDB/Fred/McTominay emerges as the 8 in our starting line up.
Meanwhile he can be a useful player this season but having to fund his replacement from internal funds next season, a season we also want to fund the signing of a world class striker will be impossible to do.
I also think that there is a certain level of cowardice in our indecision wrt this situation. We don't want to make the big call on our biggest signing even when it's clear that he has no intention of staying beyond his current deal. He should be sold, we use the funds to sign a DM and then see who amongst VDB/Fred/McTominay emerges as the 8 in our starting line up.
PSG is the only one interested and they need to sell a few to get him if he even wants to go. And if we sell him for less than £35M we actually lose money from it. So its not that easy unfortunately
How do we lose money if we sell for less than 35m?
What I'm saying is that keeping Pogba will be decided by what he adds on the pitch. The romanticised version of 'we're Manchester Utd, no one can never hold us to ransom' never really existed.
With Pogba, the dressing room love him, by all accounts he's a model professional and he clearly is a match winner for us. The only bad noise is from his agent - but coincidentally people want us to sign Haaland so go figure. Pogba seems more of a distraction for the media than people inside the club.
In 2021 I mean, sorry
If we go into the season with Pogba having not renewed I can only predict a fecking disaster unfortunately. I can imagine us being well into contention for the title going into the new year only for his fat cnut of an agent to start piping up, and then of course, the closer Pogba gets to the end of his contract the more cautious he's going to have to be going into 50/50s etc, there's just too many variables at play that I'd rather we just don't have to risk dealing with.
Really just want this sorted before the window shuts either way, I think it's so important that it is.
Really just want this sorted before the window shuts either way, I think it's so important that it is.
There's a touch of masochism going on with a lot of the unhinged. I feel like most people aren't in the extremes and losing sleep over this.
If the roles were reversed and Pogba was available for 40-50 mill (with the same performances for PSG over the last 5 seasons as he has had for us). I'm sure pretty much everyone would be on the bandwagon wanting to sign him despite his wage. The fact is we're a better team with Pogba and he offers us something from midfield that is extremely hard to replace and find. There aren't many CMs available that can offer what Pogba does. So this whole notion of let's sell him and replace him is confusing. As Camavinga, Saul and Neves are players of an entirely different mould to Pogba.
It's not that simple though.
If he signs another contract some will be happy. If he is sold for 40+m some will be happy. If he stays and goes for free a lot of people will be unhappy.
There's a very good reason why we're apparently looking at players who are an entirely different mould to Pogba though? Even those like myself who like Pogba and respect and acknowledge what he can bring can understand why we're not looking for a Pogba like for like replacement.
I'm sure some people would want him.
But others would ask the rather pertinent question, where would he fit in to our current side? In the double pivot alongside one of McFred? In a 4-3-3 with Bruno and some non-existent DM? Out on the left where someone like Rashford would normally play? Having actually had him here for the last few years, we know the difficulty in balancing our side with him in midfield.
You say the likes of Camavinga, Saul and Neves are entirely different players but that's exactly the point. If Pogba goes the last thing we need is someone else in the Pogba mould, posing all the same problems in terms of the balance of our team.
United have to pay him £15m in wages if he leaves this summer.
So its a case of keep him for on eyear and let him leave or sell him and take a hit for a lesser fee.
In a nutshell.
I guess it only really matters how those within the club feel about him resigning. So long as the manager, players and coaching staff are on board are happy moving forward (and we have no reason to believe they wouldn't be), then it's all good.
How do you sell a player that no one wants to buy?
United are yet to receive a bid for Pogba according to reports.
Seem he is staying to run down that contract.
If Mbappe to Madrid happens then Pogba to PSG might also happen. Otherwise I'm sure he will do a pre contract mid season with whoever Raiola already has lined up.
We don't know for sure one way or the other. There's still a couple of weeks until the season kicks off, hopefully this will be sorted by then.
Obviously doing a sleight of hand of to cover up that it's a goodbye message...
just trying to keep up the thread's spirit
That offer would never get to Pogba.Imagine we offer Pogba even 450k/week, on the condition that he fires Raiola. That would be the type of circus I enjoy.
You might be right, but my wider point was about Pogba being potentially happier surrounded by better players, and how another year might change his mind (if his mind is even made up, which none of us really know).