Interesting how high people rate Chelsea's squad, easily 4th best for me. Except for Kante, they don't have any genuine world class player. Along with Tuchel's style, they have a solid balance though. Their attack is a bit weak actually.
Top 4 Squad Comparison - City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Unlike the other 3, Chelsea don’t have any obvious weakness. However, I think that all the other 3 have better players in many positions too.
In my opinion Liverpool have the weakest starting 11 and squad of the four, they also have a lot of important players they're going to need to replace in the coming years and it's dubious as to whether FSG will give Klopp the funds he needs.
People really overestimate City's problem of having no top CF. In a Pep team, that is possibly the least important position.
People also underestimate Liverpool's starting XI. Like I said in the other post: it's pretty much the same team that got 99 points 1 year ago + Jota, Thiago and Konate. All their most important players are still in their prime(although Mane seems to be struggling a bit).
People also underestimate Liverpool's starting XI. Like I said in the other post: it's pretty much the same team that got 99 points 1 year ago + Jota, Thiago and Konate. All their most important players are still in their prime(although Mane seems to be struggling a bit).
Good troll attempt but Liverpool had higher wages for the last known season than United despite significantly lower revenues.
Also more than Bayern for what it’s worth.
Poor Liverpool.
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Apart from when the folks in there are so erratic in their passing that your best laid plans become non-existent. E.g. Fred brings so much energy to midfield, a lot more than any other of our midfielders, but if he has one of his nightmare showings, no level tactics will cover for that. Worryingly I'm unsure anyone else will come close to matching the legwork, ball winning and pressing he does if he's out of the team, ergo, he's usually the constant in that area.
Incidentally, midfield is the engine room of the team, and if basic passes start going astray, we lose control and the team underperforms - simple as. A functional, hardworking, no frills midfield is one thing (e.g. Liverpool before Thiago), an erratic midfield on the other hand is another and is extremely problematic.
I know you said coaching rather than just tactics, but Fred comes across as a player who fundamentally lacks the composure to deliver consistent performances regardless of what happens in training.
I agree, I think we’re far too hung up on that CDM position that we’re almost saving it to use as an excuse if we don’t challenge for the title this season, sure it’s a glaringly obvious weak spot of ours but almost every other position is dripping with quality , rarely does a team have every single spot perfect when winning a title, we should 100% be challenging for all competitions this season, no excuses
- City are without a really good striker this season , still so many good attacking options so I hardly feel sorry for them but it’s the reality
- Liverpool’s Midfield options are semi decent and you could also argue besides Salah they lack a proper striker
- Chelsea are very strong but the defence isn’t world class, they are very good but don’t have that world class CB in there and before anyone says Silva he’s injured quite a bit and what 37-38 now ?
All teams mentioned you could pick holes at positions, but we’ve just signed probably the greatest ever player to play the game who’s still so sharp and also probably one of the top 3 CB’s in the game with also Sancho added to the attack, that’s mental how good our attack is, this team needs to win trophies this season.
The money spent on wages has already been discussed, Liverpool won the PL and CL so had a lot more bonuses to pay out over the last few years. Poor Liverpool, having to win so much and pay out so much.
This season we have spent a lotttt of money renewing contracts. We have renewed all around the pitch, goalie, defenders, midfielders and forwards.
Utd have spent a lottt of money too. But only strengthening in one position (except Varane). Short sighted, no?
Liverpool had an off season after 3 amazing years, still finished 3rd and won 20 games in PL, so should be back this season, maybe not back in that 2018-2020 form but still good enough to challenge for title. Squad depth seems to be their biggest problem, I'm surprised they basically bought no one except Konate.
City didn't get Kane in the end or any other striker, but even then are capable of scoring 4,5 goals most of the weeks
Weaknesses:
Liverpool - squad depth, though they shouldn't have as many injuries as last season so won't hurt them as much
City - striker position
Chelsea - no obvious weaknesses, at least it looks like that at this moment
United - midfield problem obviously and I'd say manager, there's a clear difference between Ole and Pep/Klopp/Tuchel.
City didn't get Kane in the end or any other striker, but even then are capable of scoring 4,5 goals most of the weeks
Weaknesses:
Liverpool - squad depth, though they shouldn't have as many injuries as last season so won't hurt them as much
City - striker position
Chelsea - no obvious weaknesses, at least it looks like that at this moment
United - midfield problem obviously and I'd say manager, there's a clear difference between Ole and Pep/Klopp/Tuchel.
I’d say our attack is the strongest of the 4 teams, our defence could arguably be the same as all 3 of them… the midfield is what it comes down to, ours is weak as anything, we don’t have a natural DM other then matic who is getting on a bit now and doesn’t have the legs. Liverpool have Fabinho, Chelsea have Kante, city have rodri… these players are important in how there teams play and they allow the attackers to express themselves more. It is important that a DM is our priority in the next window. A world class DM is the only difference from us being a decent team to a world class team.
If the only weakness you see in Chelsea’s squad is that its not a world class defense, were all royally fecked. They are juggernauts in defense and almost won against Liverpool at Anfield playing with 10 men half the game. Did you not see their Champions League display? They’ve yet to be scored on this season from open play and irrespective of who they play in defense, theyre an unmovable object. That is the best defense in the world in my opinion. Silva isnt injured, Christensen and Rudiger are playing at a World Class level and keeping another World Class defender on the bench. Their Goalkeeper absolutely eats up any crosses in the box with his towering presence.
City just won the league with no recognized striker, that is not their weakness, I would say getting a Kane type of striker might have even hindered them- see Ibrahimovic at Barcelona under Pep. I fully do believe it might have been a repeat at what happened with Ibrahimovic at Barca if Kane went to City. Grealish might not be the best goalscorer but good luck getting the ball off him; perfect for Pep possession football.
Liverpool have strikers, and I am not talking about Salah. Firminho might not be the greatest goalscorer but he is a central linkup figure that unlocks the other forwards to score. He is a creative striker. It isnt an anomaly in my opinion since Jota has come in, Mane’s form has dropped. The setup with Firminho works best for their other forwards.
Sancho will need this season to really get to speed with the Premier league. This is understandable, it happened with Havertz also and I fully expect it to happen with Sancho. Next season is when Sancho will start to shine, this season we will see glimpses of greatness. Varane is a great addition undoubtedly but CM was really our weakness. We had a powerhouse attack also last season so adding Ronaldo will only make it stronger again.
So no, we are not absolute favorites and Ole will not have failed if he doesnt win the Premier League or Champions League. The FA cup and League cup is also not a given because these teams are also in it. We have to give our 100%, yes, but sometimes luck doesnt go your way against teams who are at your level or better.
Last season champions league winners. Yes we dont have super stars except may be kante, jorginho and lukaku. But we have very good young players and experienced stars. I wont swap any other defenders in pl for what we have now.
Our attacking midfield still one of the best in creativity and hard work in abundance. Our full backs one of the best in providing attack in creating chances and scoring goals also very good in helping defense.
Having great squad depth too except may be in striker position.We will challenge for title and we dont need any excuse for that.
There’s no excuse for any of these four squads dropping out of the top four. Not that I expect them to, unless Spurs go on some unlikely assault for the title…
Have no fear, bottle-jobs Spurs are here.
Spurs and Leicester could be dark horses for top 4, other than them don't see anyone getting there. West Ham and Everton should have solid seasons but not good enough for more than finishing 6-8th position in table.
Mane is not the Mane of two years ago. When you have Mane out of form and no striker, that front three is going to stall. That is the biggest problem I see for Liverpool.
Unfortunately not many fans of a certain ilk will agree with your reasoning here...
Wages including bonuses yes, Liverpoolfc base wages is lower as it's a performance based model... Poor you
The point is, you can’t compare a player who has barely played to one who has played International level football. He is not great and no one will disagree but he is ahead of Liverpool’s GK on the basis of experience.
Also in response to this highlight, when Joe Hart was
How many games did you come from behind to win last season? How many points did you rescue?
This is not a “did you deserve it” question. It is more of an observation.
You finished 7 points ahead of Chelsea in 4th place.
Chelsea recovered 11 points from behind. United recovered 31 points.
That’s not going to be repeatable. Granted you have strengthened but the statistics show that’s not because you were good. You were lucky. Who knows how the season will go this year but don’t act superior. A good team should not need to recover that many points.
Tell me you were just kidding. A Kovacic, Kante, Saul, Jorginho midfield has everything you could dream for in a central midfield. Rudiger, Thiago, Azpi are as good as it gets. In attack they have a lot of options too and while they needed a focal point to their attack last term, they have it now.
EPL generally lacks the upcoming top top star players like the Haaland’s and Mbappe’s of these world and apart from players like De Bruyne, Salah, Kante, Kane there are no real big superstars in the premier league.
What Chelsea has at the moment is as good as it gets in the league.There is a fantastic manager, quality in key places and a fair amount of depth. I’d be surprised if they don’t challenge for the league this season.
Strengths and Weaknesses:
CHELSEA
MAN CITY
LIVERPOOL
CHELSEA
- They have no glaring weak spots
- They have a very solid defense probably because they play 3 at the back and have good protection from midfield
- It is also a fairly deep squad
- Last season they had a lot of 1-0 wins because they couldn’t score well but that seems to be becoming a thing of the past now
MAN CITY
- They have a deep squad
- They have a winning mentality, always want to play on the front foot and lord it over anyone they meet
- They have the best player in the league in my opinion - Kevin De Bruyne
- They have a lot of creativity and this is where their goal scoring comes from. If City have a top striker they will blow the league. They create so much because they have a lot of creative players but their finishing is poor but because they create so so much they still score loads anyway
- For all their quality they lack a goal scorer which would have made their team clearly set apart from the rest of the league. They still score loads but in tougher matches they need that reliable scorer. If Pep teams don’t really need strikers City wouldn’t have been acting like beggars when they where trying to sign Kane
- They can fold into their shells when the going gets tough. I call them flat track bullies because if you look at last season they won easy games well but won few points against top teams
- We just signed the soon to be 6 Ballon d’Or winner. Yeah you heard me right, go and write this somewhere
- A deep squad
- Great goal scoring prowess
- Good balance in the team. We are also very creative but not as much as City
- We have a winning mentality - a but like in SAF’s days when we could come from a loosing position to win even with 5 minutes to go
- We need to improve CDM
- We need to sort out slow starts, we go behind in games a tad too much
LIVERPOOL
- Key players are rarely injured. Last season was an exception though
- Their first team is as good as it gets in the league
- Great counter attacking team. Actually United and Chelsea are too
- They have a thin squad per se
As a Chelsea supporter, I'm very pessimistic about our chances. I know Tuchel is an amazing coach but I'm afraid we would still have an issue scoring goals like last season. Our forward players could not hit a barn door last season and there were hardly any goal contributions from the midfielders. Unless that improves drastically, I doubt Lukaku would be enough.
For the other teams, I'd put City as favorites. Though they may be lacking in the striker department, it doesn't seem to be a crucial position in Pep's teams. It's a toss up between Liverpool, Man United and Chelsea. All 3 have their strengths and weaknesses that cancel each other out in my opinion. Man United has amazing attacking players and that can swing any match. Liverpool will be solid now that Van Dijk is back and if they can find their goal scoring touch again, they will be up there.
For the other teams, I'd put City as favorites. Though they may be lacking in the striker department, it doesn't seem to be a crucial position in Pep's teams. It's a toss up between Liverpool, Man United and Chelsea. All 3 have their strengths and weaknesses that cancel each other out in my opinion. Man United has amazing attacking players and that can swing any match. Liverpool will be solid now that Van Dijk is back and if they can find their goal scoring touch again, they will be up there.
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It's fair to say you rate Kovacic, Jorginho and Saul higher than me, some of these players are really overrated here imo. It's a question whether they will be in the mix. Their attacking options are overrated too..
Maybe it’s just me, but when I dream of a midfield, it doesn’t have most of those midfielders in it.
And maybe it’s also just me, but when I think of a defence that’s “as good as it gets”, none of those defenders are in it.
I'd rate the teams as follows:
1 - City
= Chelsea
3 - Utd
4 - Dippers
For me, any team that finishes above Chelsea will win the league. The reason I say this is that they are probably the most well oiled squad, especially in defensive phases, and have great depth so even two injuries don't really effect them (ok, maybe the GK and Lukaku.)
City, may not have a CF but they're also very well oiled. Attacking wise they probably have the most fluid team in the league, although they can get caught out on the counter if they need a goal.
Utd, squad wise, up their with Chelsea and City, maybe even the best first XI if looking at names. Issue however is compatibility and the fluidity of the side. Whereas Chelsea, City and the Dippers have clear styles Utd's still seems underdeveloped/lacking.
Dippers, very strong first XI, maybe the strongest when taking into consideration their fit to the teams system. Let down by depth. Another issue is that they have a number of key players who have just come back from long term injuries. ACoN hits them the hardest.
1 - City
= Chelsea
3 - Utd
4 - Dippers
For me, any team that finishes above Chelsea will win the league. The reason I say this is that they are probably the most well oiled squad, especially in defensive phases, and have great depth so even two injuries don't really effect them (ok, maybe the GK and Lukaku.)
City, may not have a CF but they're also very well oiled. Attacking wise they probably have the most fluid team in the league, although they can get caught out on the counter if they need a goal.
Utd, squad wise, up their with Chelsea and City, maybe even the best first XI if looking at names. Issue however is compatibility and the fluidity of the side. Whereas Chelsea, City and the Dippers have clear styles Utd's still seems underdeveloped/lacking.
Dippers, very strong first XI, maybe the strongest when taking into consideration their fit to the teams system. Let down by depth. Another issue is that they have a number of key players who have just come back from long term injuries. ACoN hits them the hardest.
Not allowed to post in the main forum so this is the next best thread.
Ralf Ragnick is a decent manager, or at least he is a proper footballing manager with the right skills and experience. Now we will find out how truly great the Man Utd squad is (it was all Ole's fault) as the myth would have had us believe since the summer.
As Captain Foresight of this forum, I predict calls for "these are not Ralf's players, he needs better" and "some of these players are not fit to wear the shirt" to appear en masse by mid December just in time for the January window.
Ralf Ragnick is a decent manager, or at least he is a proper footballing manager with the right skills and experience. Now we will find out how truly great the Man Utd squad is (it was all Ole's fault) as the myth would have had us believe since the summer.
As Captain Foresight of this forum, I predict calls for "these are not Ralf's players, he needs better" and "some of these players are not fit to wear the shirt" to appear en masse by mid December just in time for the January window.
This thread has aged well.
The defensive spine is United's problem.
Alisson, van Dijk, Fabinho
Ederson, Dias, Rodri
Mendy, Silva, Kante
Transplant any of those for De Gea, Maguire and McTominay and you'd instantly become challengers.
Alisson, van Dijk, Fabinho
Ederson, Dias, Rodri
Mendy, Silva, Kante
Transplant any of those for De Gea, Maguire and McTominay and you'd instantly become challengers.
It's amazing how much sense we (Chelsea and Liverpool fans) were talking in the first page. Almost like we were predicting the future exactly as it unfolded. As much as we're thought of as WUMs (well me anyway) there's a shit load we get right.
It easy to see the faults with others teams more than your own. Although Mendy being name checked as a weakness did make me chuckle.
Still at a loss to work out what more he has to do to get the recognition he deserves.
There's even Chelsea fans who still think Kepa will eventually win his place back.
I just went through the whole thread again and I don't see anyone calling Mendy weak, or a weakness. Definitely talk of Kepa but not Mendy. I would play my late grandmother ahead of Kepa, so would you Chelsea fans.
Chelsea and City by far have the best squad in the league by a long way. Overall that might determine the league. Utd's squad may see them squeeze into 4th once the likes of West Ham start their inevitable decline. Liverpool a very comfortable third.
Surely you jest
I'm looking forward to Kepa being in goal for a few games starting next month
On a forum I use there was a pre season prediction thread to which one member said they think Kepa will win his place back by the end of the season while another constantly criticises Mendy and still thinks Kepa has the potential to be world class.
That said he's become a reliable enough number 2 price tag aside but Edou is on another planet to him (apart from penalties).
I hope they're right.
I don't see anywhere in the first page where you predicted us doing this bad. Quite a few had us in top 3 squads. You did mention we strengthened attack more than midfield and defense and that would cause us problems. But that's about it.
This was a evaluation of squads and everyone pretty much agreed we have a top 3 or top 4 squad.
Not allowed to post in the main forum so this is the next best thread.
Ralf Rangnick is a decent manager, or at least he is a proper footballing manager with the right skills and experience. Now we will find out how truly great the Man Utd squad is (it was all Ole's fault) as the myth would have had us believe since the summer.
As Captain Foresight of this forum, I predict calls for "these are not Ralf's players, he needs better" and "some of these players are not fit to wear the shirt" to appear en masse by mid December just in time for the January window.
Damn. Almost word for word perfect.
(I did make some crap predictions in this thread too, for balance
)How are you still allowed to live?
This thread is a car crash. A smoking, burning, seething, 28-car pile up.