Wash your mouth with soap, look at who you're mentioning and look at Ole. All 3 of them won trophies and have earned patience from their respective fans.
We are an awfully coached team
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Have you guys seen us press? It's hilarious never seen a modern team so bad at pressing.
You guys are not a modern team
Wait I trolled in the post match thread guessing his comments, saying stuff like that, but that's actually what he said today? That's hilarious.
Nah, that is what he said after WH. Today he blamed VAR. Good old blame the ref way.
One thing I want to add when posters say that Ole is not at fault if players on the pitch can’t make simple passes or give possession cheaply then I doubt your understanding of football. These mistakes happen when players don’t have clear ideas on the pitch like where to be where to move where to pass. When all these things are not drilled on the training ground then this kind of accidental football happen where players take up each other’s position or leaving gaps or not able to make themselves available in the right areas to relieve the pressure from opposition resulting in turnover after turnover in possession which we see every week against every team we play.
So when we see Pogba holding the ball for too long or Fred giving away the ball freely or Bruno too high and leaving a huge gap in the middle then it is the consequence of our non existent team play or poorly drilled tactics. Honestly, anyone who have played decent amount of football understand this thing. I see posters complain again and again about players making these mistakes without even comprehending that how such basic things can happen only to us with players like we have ? But they still lay the blame on the players and say he is shit and he is crap and we need Rice when most of the stuff can be rectified just on the training ground. Watch Rice come and see no change.
So when we see Pogba holding the ball for too long or Fred giving away the ball freely or Bruno too high and leaving a huge gap in the middle then it is the consequence of our non existent team play or poorly drilled tactics. Honestly, anyone who have played decent amount of football understand this thing. I see posters complain again and again about players making these mistakes without even comprehending that how such basic things can happen only to us with players like we have ? But they still lay the blame on the players and say he is shit and he is crap and we need Rice when most of the stuff can be rectified just on the training ground. Watch Rice come and see no change.
Ah ok. He's definately cracking up, he's got the excuses ready straight away now. Only a matter of time before we get the almighty wind.
You can't press with Ronaldo in the side.
We didn't even press without him, so forget about pressing with him.
Can't stand this anymore, we have a very strong team but we play like we don't have a team to play any football at all. Like Ole but this is really poor
Tactically nondescript. There’s nothing there at all besides hoping everyone plays well. We play like we’re an international side who only meet up every two or three months
Exactly. Individual brilliance or bust.
There are so many talented coaches in the world and he picked Carrick and fecking McKenna. He deserves the sack when he gets it.
watching a team of nobodies go toe to toe with a full strength Liverpool, made me think, what does Thomas Frank do to make his team play like that against a top team full of talent and managed by a top coach?
Even when we'd had enough of LVG, Moyes and Mourinho atleast you could see a gameplan even if we didn't like it.
Players were lost out there today with zero tactics. Players going rogue and trying to win their team the game with no cohesion or team play.
Ole and his team need to be sent packing but instead the club gave him a new contract. We're screwed until a proper management team come in.
You could give Moyes, LVG and Ole world class players and they still play the same shit football they always have done.
Only Jose I believe would have performed better with better players.
Jose with the current lineup challenges for the league.
Players were lost out there today with zero tactics. Players going rogue and trying to win their team the game with no cohesion or team play.
Ole and his team need to be sent packing but instead the club gave him a new contract. We're screwed until a proper management team come in.
You could give Moyes, LVG and Ole world class players and they still play the same shit football they always have done.
Only Jose I believe would have performed better with better players.
Jose with the current lineup challenges for the league.
A game plan?
Hands down the most depressing thing about Ole is the fact he manages like a caretaker, almost afraid to impose any semblance of a style of play or tactical ethos. He’s a youngish manager in the biggest club job in football. He should be buzzing with energy and new ideas and excited to show the world what he’s made of.
Instead we play some of the most insipid, directionless football going and he spends every game passively sitting on the bench looking like a kid who has been forced to visit his grandma with his parents and can’t wait to leave
What I see in Brentford is a whole team of players that pass and move for each other from the keeper to the striker taking the shot. It's so simple in theory but they actually put it into practice.
For 90 minutes today they did the right thing on the ball at all times and gave each other a chance.
On the other hand today we saw United not look like a team at any point in the 90 minutes. We never had a passage of play where 4 or 5 passes were made successfully. There didn't seem to be any plan of action at all and it resulted in players playing hero ball.
The management team shouldn't sleep tonight but they will. Because they're shit and they don't know any better. I don't know whose trainer performance was worse today - Uniteds management team or Rob McCracken in the AJ fight.
Both gameplans handcrafted from dogshit. I don't know how performances and gameplans can happen at the elite level of sports. You can lose.... but you shouldn't lose like we did today.
Ole and team OUT.
As harsh as it sounds, the likes of the Southampton, Brighton, Aston Villa & Brentford manager’s are much better at their jobs than our management. If any of those managers (coaches) joined our group of management, it would be a big upgrade.
Those managers generally get decent football and subsequent results through a high level modern drilled coaching of inferior players.
Those managers generally get decent football and subsequent results through a high level modern drilled coaching of inferior players.
A good manager creates a team that is more than the sum of its parts.
We are substantially less. Substantially.
I mean he pressed as much as anyone else out there. We just don't press properly as in we don't know how. We run around like headless chickens
Players like Lewa / Lukaku etc have no problem being part of a pressing system.
Ole just doesn't commit to the high press at all, it's just Bruno running around aimlessly without cutting off any passing lanes
He doesn't know how to deal with one too.
I'm sure he imagines he knows how. And then wonders why his players fail so often. Maybe if we buy another 200mil worth of midfielders he'd solve it.
This.
The squad at Utd should be challenging for the highest honours. Instead it’ll be a matter of trying to scrape Top 4 and squabbling within the fanbase about whether or not the manager should be excused again…
Meanwhile any viable managerial talent will go elsewhere as Utd dither.
no? jose's gameplan in his last season was to go behind at half time, throw on pogba, mata, and martial, and hope something works out in the 80th minute. before that it was to hope lukaku or rashford score quickly and then sit back and maybe score on the counter. you could see the total lack of a plan in any phase - defence, possession, attack - in some of the games vs bigger teams - city, liverpool, and chelsea.
moyes liked to start with valencia and young spamming crosses, then switching to januzaj and nani trying and failing to do combinations. there was no plan. after getting destroyed bycity and liverpool, he switched it around - start with nani and kagawa and januzaj - and then got smashed by everton.
none of them had any of the mythical "patterns of play" either.
LvG? Ok. There was a plan. didn't work well, and the team itself was poor, but fine.
The lack of width in our play is really hurting us. AWB is absolutely awful going forward, and rarely ever attempts to make a cross. With Ronaldo being as good as he is with headers, it ought to be asked why we aren't trying to put in more crosses. So many of our attacks which seem promising break down because everyone goes narrow or one of our forwards comes inside and attempts to shoot. It's simply unacceptable for Man Utd to have fullbacks (except for Shaw), who can barely contribute anything to the attack.
In addition, the more concerning thing for me was the lack of desire from the players - Villa players were far more committed to wining 50-50s and they won so many second balls. Ole loves to talk about the "team spirit and fight", but we were very passive for most of the time in these situations. None of the players seem to receive a bollocking from the touchline - I know maybe that's not Ole's style, but it's hard to see whether this is even being conveyed to the players in other avenues.
We're also absolutely awful at attacking set plays - over the years, we used to score a number of goals from free-kicks/corners in situations where we weren't playing particularly well. Everyone of our corners/free kicks amount to pretty much nothing these days. You really have to wonder whether this is even a focus in training.
In addition, the more concerning thing for me was the lack of desire from the players - Villa players were far more committed to wining 50-50s and they won so many second balls. Ole loves to talk about the "team spirit and fight", but we were very passive for most of the time in these situations. None of the players seem to receive a bollocking from the touchline - I know maybe that's not Ole's style, but it's hard to see whether this is even being conveyed to the players in other avenues.
We're also absolutely awful at attacking set plays - over the years, we used to score a number of goals from free-kicks/corners in situations where we weren't playing particularly well. Everyone of our corners/free kicks amount to pretty much nothing these days. You really have to wonder whether this is even a focus in training.
Watch Ole continue to play underperforming players despite saying he's picking them on merit since day 1.
From the moment he broke his promise on that, he should have been let go already.
Add the fact that even relegation standard teams look more tactically cohesive than us and it's just a terrible look on us.
From the moment he broke his promise on that, he should have been let go already.
Add the fact that even relegation standard teams look more tactically cohesive than us and it's just a terrible look on us.
It's a funny comment but very true England look a far more cohesive side compared to United and they are still slightly disjointed. Ole has lots to answer for.
To be fair when it comes to Brentford I think you'd need to take our entire structure DOFs, coaches, analytics team etc - we are not a club that is reliant on the head coach, as good as he is, being the sole reason for our success.
Lewa is an exception. He is extremely productive and proactive in a pressing system. He is one of a kind.
Ronaldo even in his peak physical days didn't work as hard as Lewa does now in applying pressure on the defensive line without the ball.
Lukaku doesn't work as hard as Lewa.
I agree with your last point. We've never pressed well even without Ronaldo. But we're not going to be able to press well with Ronaldo in the squad. You can't press well with him in the XI.
Pretty much.
It's the same story 3 years later.
Poor at bypassing the press and poor at initiating one.
IMO all a forward needs to do is cut off passing lanes when needed and apply pressure on the ball when all other options are cut off for the CB he's pressing. It doesn't involve a lot of needless running around.
Every single other member of the squad works fairly hard, so it shouldn't be a problem to have Ronaldo as part of a press.
You can definitely press with him, it's not ideal but it isn't like he's holding back Manchester United for being a modern football team.
It's a shame as the team looks good on paper, at least better than the last iterations of recent years, but seems a waste under the current manager. I could be wrong as the team can definitely play better and it might actually do it, regardless of the manager, as the season goes on and the players get used to each other .
Brentford, vs Liverpool had 5 players in the box for all there goals, our lot would've been camped on the edge if the area in a cluster of 3.
To be honest, I think, quite a lot of them see it. But quite a few are highly invested in the Ole-In/Ole-Out wars because in the beginning it certainly was a worthy war against some knobheads that were not only impatient but also missing respect. Unfortunately this turned into a self-propelling s**t-show where two sides find it difficult to find common ground.
I think it is telling, that a few people that were very active usually in this thread after matches are non-existent for now. Kindergarten
Yes, I think you’re right- there are clearly investments here that underpin the surface dispute. I guess I’m just amazed despite this that some are prepared to defend the ongoing lack of change, learning from failure and lack of improvements. When something is obviously not working, try something else. I’m just letting off a little steam is all.
Lewandolski more of than not is not the leader of Bayern pressing. Muller is often the one to chase shadow when the CBs passing between themselves and the GK. Lewan is often tasked to actually drop and man mark the midfielder that drop deepest to help the backline playing out from the back... This helps him conserve energy while Bayern still utilize him as part of the collective press/mark.
Energy level and fitness, I don't think Lewan is that much fresher than Ronaldo. It's more about the team set up.
Energy level and fitness, I don't think Lewan is that much fresher than Ronaldo. It's more about the team set up.
Eep, a little ambiguity made it seem like it was about Ole. Guess I should have inferred that it wasn’t. My bad.
And I agree top 4 isn’t the goal, but if the trend is upward, it’s hard to justify a sacking. This may well be the season where it becomes clear he’s taken us as far as he can, though. I’m sure that will cue a lot of told-you-so’s, but a good number of those will have been saying that for years.
Yeah good thing Ole's won so many trophies like those fellows did. Such a similar situation.Next up. Don't criticised Arteta as other managers aren't perfect either!
Bingo. A manager who values quality possession play in the buildup would not have signed AWB and refused to sign CM 4 years into his tenure. You always see managers come to a club and mould it to their ideas as early as they can. If wr haven't done it then it's clear that Ole does not value it as highly as people think. He's signed Daniel James a RW, VDB an attacking midfielder and two CFs in Ronaldo and Cavani in his time (I'm ignoring the signings we desperate needed). So of course he could have signed a CM to help build attacks.
Barring his first two games we've never really played good possesion footy under Ole anyway.
On this thread, there are two things. Ole is not inept at coaching /tactics but
- He is not comparable to his rivals and hence not good enough for our ambitions
- He is too old school which results in us playing 90s football in 2021, just miles worse in terms of quality because he's not actually that good.
I don't think the press would be fully optimal with Ronaldo in the squad.