Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel

passing-wind said:
The biggest thing that separates Solskjaer from Tuchel, Klopp and Pep is that they are winners. Tactically it's not worth consideration but if Ole makes all the noise about the players having desire, passion and determination. These are all ingredients he's missing as the manager.
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I think one thing I've noticed is their ability to use "average" players.

And I don't mean them as the players are actually average- it's more that the players can't exactly be called world class or even top class before them getting managed by these managers.

I mean look at Klopp using Henderson, Milner, Origi, Firmino before he was rated, the young midfielder, Chamberlain, widjnaldum, Keita - Good players but no one that would have scared you alot before.

Tuchel is using Hudson odoi, Ruben Loftus cheek, sometimes barkley, Chilwell wasn't playing great for them for some time and has started scoring, Chalobah is another etc.


They are really able to get the best out of some questionable players purely from arguably just their tactics & coaching.
 
Bebestation said:
I think one thing I've noticed is their ability to use "average" players.

And I don't mean them as the players are actually average- it's more that the players can't exactly be called world class or even top class before them getting managed by these managers.

I mean look at Klopp using Henderson, Milner, Origi, Firmino before he was rated, the young midfielder, Chamberlain, widjnaldum, Keita - Good players but no one that would have scared you alot before.

Tuchel is using Hudson odoi, Ruben Loftus cheek, sometimes barkley, Chilwell wasn't playing great for them for some time and has started scoring, Chalobah is another etc.


They are really able to get the best out of some questionable players purely from arguably just their tactics & coaching.
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I think a lot of it is down to truly understanding the player. Everyone has weaknesses, playing them to fully utilize their strengths whilst also balancing the 11 with players that can hide their weakness is the goal.

For Ole I don’t see this happen, ever. It’s like he has decided who his best players are and has no consideration for chemistry. Pogba and Bruno both need a team built around them, they are not very complimentary with each other. You have wide forwards with goals in them but are generally quite selfish. You have one good full back and a technically inept one. There’s no balance and as a result, no defined style.
 
Bebestation said:
I think one thing I've noticed is their ability to use "average" players.

And I don't mean them as the players are actually average- it's more that the players can't exactly be called world class or even top class before them getting managed by these managers.

I mean look at Klopp using Henderson, Milner, Origi, Firmino before he was rated, the young midfielder, Chamberlain, widjnaldum, Keita - Good players but no one that would have scared you alot before.

Tuchel is using Hudson odoi, Ruben Loftus cheek, sometimes barkley, Chilwell wasn't playing great for them for some time and has started scoring, Chalobah is another etc.


They are really able to get the best out of some questionable players purely from arguably just their tactics & coaching.
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To me it seems that Klopp and Tuchel are really good at improving good players while Pep is the best in getting the best out of great players. All three fantastic managers
 
SirReginald said:
I think a lot of it is down to truly understanding the player. Everyone has weaknesses, playing them to fully utilize their strengths whilst also balancing the 11 with players that can hide their weakness is the goal.

For Ole I don’t see this happen, ever. It’s like he has decided who his best players are and has no consideration for chemistry. Pogba and Bruno both need a team built around them, they are not very complimentary with each other. You have wide forwards with goals in them but are generally quite selfish. You have one good full back and a technically inept one. There’s no balance and as a result, no defined style.
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And players knowing a system. You can get lucky with injuries but no team will go all 38 games with the same XI - if you have guys slotting into a defined role across all positions, chances are your level will stay consistent enough to challenge.
 
Bebestation said:
I think one thing I've noticed is their ability to use "average" players.

And I don't mean them as the players are actually average- it's more that the players can't exactly be called world class or even top class before them getting managed by these managers.

I mean look at Klopp using Henderson, Milner, Origi, Firmino before he was rated, the young midfielder, Chamberlain, widjnaldum, Keita - Good players but no one that would have scared you alot before.

Tuchel is using Hudson odoi, Ruben Loftus cheek, sometimes barkley, Chilwell wasn't playing great for them for some time and has started scoring, Chalobah is another etc.


They are really able to get the best out of some questionable players purely from arguably just their tactics & coaching.
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Whilst I agree that Klopp, Pep, Tuchel are very good managers, the things mentioned are not entirely true.

That is like saying Ole using Greenwood, Fred, McTominay and making it work.

Origi, Chamberlain, Keita have played very few games for Liverpool, also Keita, Ox, Gini were very well rated players, he hasn't done anything special to the,

Same as Tuchel, CHO, RLC were very highly rated youngsters. barkley hardly plays, I dont get how you can give credit to Tuchel for that.
 
Sounds good.

Chelsea Fans - Tuchel is obviously a good manager.

However is there anything you see in small bits that worry you that might turn to bigger problems in the future?

Or is he near perfect as possible so far?
 
Smooth sailing so far, but he is wound a little tight and you never know how long until the seas might get rough. Enjoy the present.
 
Bebestation said:
Sounds good.

Chelsea Fans - Tuchel is obviously a good manager.

However is there anything you see in small bits that worry you that might turn to bigger problems in the future?

Or is he near perfect as possible so far?
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Not a Chelsea fan, but having doubts about their attacking play. I think they often either fail to use their chances (without Lukaku) or fail to create enogh chances (with Lukaku). So far I don't see Tuchel having a definitive answer for this.
 
stefan92 said:
Not a Chelsea fan, but having doubts about their attacking play. I think they often either fail to use their chances (without Lukaku) or fail to create enogh chances (with Lukaku). So far I don't see Tuchel having a definitive answer for this.
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When Lukaku was playing this was said to be a lack of creative CAM - not the easiest position to add on to a 3 man defensive formation either, so maybe that's something to keep an eye on. Mount is more energetic and maybe a better goal scorer than a pure creator aswell? Not sure.

Anyway, Chelsea do look good the way they have alot of youngsters playing up a level like RLC, Chalobah and Hudson Odoi.
 
Bebestation said:
Sounds good.

Chelsea Fans - Tuchel is obviously a good manager.

However is there anything you see in small bits that worry you that might turn to bigger problems in the future?

Or is he near perfect as possible so far?
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He's as near perfect as possible in my opinion. Tactically astute, by all accounts a tremendous man manager, clearly at the forefront of working with the nutrition and medical teams, innovative and clever in training, happy to work with our hierarchy, and self-reflective (at least in terms of accountability when results go awry).

Obviously it being Chelsea this could all change at the drop of a hat and Tuchel has had relationships go off the rails previously, but he seems far more settled now than he has done at any other club to date.

stefan92 said:
Not a Chelsea fan, but having doubts about their attacking play. I think they often either fail to use their chances (without Lukaku) or fail to create enogh chances (with Lukaku). So far I don't see Tuchel having a definitive answer for this.
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This is a fair point to bring up and it's an interesting problem to try to tackle. I do think Tuchel has come up with an answer to this recently in the form of wingback / 10 rotations - we haven't played too many minutes with Lukaku in the team since this has become a feature of our play, and I suspect that getting additional runners in and around him might be an intriguing wrinkle.

Pulisic coming back may also be of benefit - he's probably our best player 1v1 against a defender, and with the wingbacks underlapping he'll find himself in those situations much more often. Overall it adds a lot more unpredictability to our attacking play - we'll see how Lukaku beds in.
 
Top manager, whether you like how he plays or not, at least he has a style and it fits in with the styles Chelsea have used in the past 15 years.

Fair play to Abramovich for being an owner with ambition to win and doing with Lampard what we should be doing now. Champions League winners and top of the premier league, they were comfortably behind us before making a change. Says it all really.
 
For me best about tuchel is his ability to utilise the full squad. Made fringe players too part of the group. Not afraid to take responsibility. More importantly with them in team he is getting results.

Not only made them feel important in the group but also give enough rest to starters as well. Previous managers didn't able to do so. So why I think chelsea just got lucky to have him.
 
Bebestation said:
Sounds good.

Chelsea Fans - Tuchel is obviously a good manager.

However is there anything you see in small bits that worry you that might turn to bigger problems in the future?

Or is he near perfect as possible so far?
Click to expand...

Only thing that's really worried me so far was the City game. They absolutely dominated us and we never even looked like we had a chance of coming away with points. I was very disappointed that he appeared to set up fairly timidly and then didn't manage to adapt.

I know people tend to say 'yeah but it's City' but if we're real title contenders then that isn't acceptable from any team.
 
stefan92 said:
Not a Chelsea fan, but having doubts about their attacking play. I think they often either fail to use their chances (without Lukaku) or fail to create enogh chances (with Lukaku). So far I don't see Tuchel having a definitive answer for this.
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Pretty much this. Don't see this changing this season tbh.
 
UweBein said:
Pretty much this. Don't see this changing this season tbh.
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Same issue as Pep has without a striker - the danger is they will draw too many games. Pool are the one team who will always score goals but their defence looks a bit off this season. Very intriguing start to the year, the frustrating thing is no team is really untouchable and I think City/Pool are still a level beneath where they've been a couple of seasons ago, United should be right amongst them this season.
 
Kentonio said:
Only thing that's really worried me so far was the City game. They absolutely dominated us and we never even looked like we had a chance of coming away with points. I was very disappointed that he appeared to set up fairly timidly and then didn't manage to adapt.

I know people tend to say 'yeah but it's City' but if we're real title contenders then that isn't acceptable from any team.
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On the other hand it would have been absolute madness if Chelsea had beaten City four times in a row, so I would not worry to much about that one game :lol:

However it definitely was a prime example for the theory that Chelsea doesn't create enough with Lukaku playing.
 
stefan92 said:
On the other hand it would have been absolute madness if Chelsea had beaten City four times in a row, so I would not worry to much about that one game :lol:

However it definitely was a prime example for the theory that Chelsea doesn't create enough with Lukaku playing.
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I didn't mind the loss as such, it was just the way it happened. We didn't even look like we were in the game at any point.
 
Kentonio said:
Only thing that's really worried me so far was the City game. They absolutely dominated us and we never even looked like we had a chance of coming away with points. I was very disappointed that he appeared to set up fairly timidly and then didn't manage to adapt.

I know people tend to say 'yeah but it's City' but if we're real title contenders then that isn't acceptable from any team.
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I think we got thrown for a loop by Pep using Foden as a false 9 to drop deep and press the hell out of Jorginho - to my knowledge that's the first time Foden has played that role?

Agreed that it was a concerning performance but for me that seems a one-off - Tuchel certainly has shown the nous to go toe to toe with Pep previously.
 
Kentonio said:
I didn't mind the loss as such, it was just the way it happened. We didn't even look like we were in the game at any point.
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It was after he went too defensive at City that we started seeing the wingbacks becoming a lot more involved in the attack. Perhaps it was necessary so that Tuchel didnt venture too defensively. It was a terrible game to watch as a Chelsea fan.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Thought we were far worse in the 1-3 against City last January to be honest. Agreed though that it was one of the poorer performances of Tuchel's tenure.
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That was what turned me against Lampard, the first half hour or so was utterly outrageous incompetence.
 
Kentonio said:
Only thing that's really worried me so far was the City game. They absolutely dominated us and we never even looked like we had a chance of coming away with points. I was very disappointed that he appeared to set up fairly timidly and then didn't manage to adapt.

I know people tend to say 'yeah but it's City' but if we're real title contenders then that isn't acceptable from any team.
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He just got the team selection horribly wrong.
 
passing-wind said:
The biggest thing that separates Solskjaer from Tuchel, Klopp and Pep is that they are winners. Tactically it's not worth consideration but if Ole makes all the noise about the players having desire, passion and determination. These are all ingredients he's missing as the manager.
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Right. He's too weak willed to even get up from his chair and stand.

Despicable... for 7m a year I'd expect some show of passion to the very least.
 
SirReginald said:
I think a lot of it is down to truly understanding the player. Everyone has weaknesses, playing them to fully utilize their strengths whilst also balancing the 11 with players that can hide their weakness is the goal.

For Ole I don’t see this happen, ever. It’s like he has decided who his best players are and has no consideration for chemistry. Pogba and Bruno both need a team built around them, they are not very complimentary with each other. You have wide forwards with goals in them but are generally quite selfish. You have one good full back and a technically inept one. There’s no balance and as a result, no defined style.
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I think coaching isnt that complicated.

You have a blueprint on how you want to play. And instead of what haverts should do it's what an AM in my team should do.

That way any player replaced or injured or rotated still know what they should be doing. And they'll be drillled and trained with that blue print in mind.

The more solid your blueprint the less reliant you are on individual player and anyone can seamlessly slot in, not because the manager is a genius but because he employ a simply solution.

From there you can simply tweak the team here and there accordingly but the bulk of the tactics remains the same.
 
Rajiztar said:
For me best about tuchel is his ability to utilise the full squad. Made fringe players too part of the group. Not afraid to take responsibility. More importantly with them in team he is getting results.

Not only made them feel important in the group but also give enough rest to starters as well. Previous managers didn't able to do so. So why I think chelsea just got lucky to have him.
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Agreed.
I like what he did with Alonso and Chilwell, rotating and got both of them playing well. Would be interesting which one he trust more in big matches. But competition for places have benefitted them.
 
Stadjer said:
Yes but at that time Tuchel was a average (at best) German hipster manager who was failing/failed at psg... atleast thats what i was reading here.
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No point reading anything on here that has anything to do from outside the UK. Most and by most i mean 90%, dont watch anything bar the premier league. And a large majority of them only watch united games. They know fairly little
 
reelworld said:
Agreed.
I like what he did with Alonso and Chilwell, rotating and got both of them playing well. Would be interesting which one he trust more in big matches. But competition for places have benefitted them.
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Yes.So why I am bit more confident about this season s festive schedule. He shuffled the pack and give game time to full squad. So tiredness will not become an issue in my opinion during this festive period.

Hopefully we will get full healthy squad after this international break with Lukaku mount pulisic kovacic and Werner coming back will elevate us into top gear during this festive period.
 
Chilwell on his frank chat with Tuchel at the start of the season.

“I was so eager to get back playing football, it was maybe coming across that I wanted it a bit too much.

“Me and (Tuchel) had a very honest conversation where he did say to me: ‘You know, I feel like mentally at the moment in training you’re pushing a bit too much to get in the team. We love you here, we know the qualities you possess just relax a little bit, you’re going to get back in’.

“It was brilliant to hear and then it was just about being patient and making sure I was ready so that when I was called upon to play, I could do my best. When you’ve got a manager that talks to you on a personal level [who] tells you the honest truth about what you need to do to get back on the team, of course it’s going to help you and give you a bit of clarity.”
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Apparently chelsea agreed to sign 23 yr old left footed Hungary international center back Attila szalai from fenehrbahce for 25 mn euros.

Look like rudiger Christensen Silva situations forced chelsea look into options and came up with szalai as solution.No idea who he is but atleti and Seville linked with him.Will join the squad from January if rumour is correct.
 
Sounds like Rudiger is off.
I’d expect Silva and Christensen to stay.
 
Bizarre having both our CBs both going out of contract in the summer and this not being resolved yet. Must be something weird happening, because its really not normal for the club to let things like this happen.
 
Kentonio said:
Bizarre having both our CBs both going out of contract in the summer and this not being resolved yet. Must be something weird happening, because its really not normal for the club to let things like this happen.
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Club won't bend wage structure for Rudiger, it's a sensible move for our medium and long term stability. If we give in to his demands, others will all expect the same.

Just need to look at Ramos, Messi, Bale etc to see what can go wrong giving huge contracts to guys nudging 30. Also see Willian.

Hopefully we'll renew Christensen, he's fair bit younger so it's a different ball game. Seems like his agent is trying some tricks at the last minute. Hopefully resolved soon.
 
Mb194dc said:
Club won't bend wage structure for Rudiger, it's a sensible move for our medium and long term stability. If we give in to his demands, others will all expect the same.

Just need to look at Ramos, Messi, Bale etc to see what can go wrong giving huge contracts to guys nudging 30. Also see Willian.

Hopefully we'll renew Christensen, he's fair bit younger so it's a different ball game. Seems like his agent is trying some tricks at the last minute. Hopefully resolved soon.
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With Cristensen, it sounds like it's a contract length issue. Chelsea have offered, and it seems like his agent is pushing for just 3 years.
 
shahzy said:
No point reading anything on here that has anything to do from outside the UK. Most and by most i mean 90%, dont watch anything bar the premier league. And a large majority of them only watch united games. They know fairly little
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Whereas you, on the other hand...
 
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