F1 2021 Season

hobbers said:
I think Merc have to protest it. But that happens so often when the pack is being backed up on a safety car restart and is never penalised. Lewis was 3-4 car lengths ahead at the safety car line.

Honestly it would be one of the biggest shambles in the sports history to penalise for that. I think unlapping only a certain number of cars is a far more valid complaint but with a less clear outcome if it's in any way upheld.
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Yeah I agree. I think that’s a slam dunk - I just have no clue what the feck happens after that. Masi has made a right mess.
 
What exactly comes of this..... 1 v 1 shootout lap? Nope.

Think it's been said, but it'll go down like a disastrous ref decision. Just about nothing happening. The officials will state they've done well given no ones been injured in this absurd of seasons too.
 
macheda14 said:
So Lewis had lapped every car on the track. Usually when there is a safety car EVERY lapped car is told that they are allowed unlap themselves to go past the safety car and return to track position behind those that have lapped them. OR you don't allow them to unlap themselves and then restart the race with everyone in the same position as they were when the safety car was called out. What was crazy here is Masi the race director decided that only the five cars between Lewis and Max were allowed to unlap themselves AND THEN immediately call in the safety car (the regulations say that if you were to let cars unlap themselves, the safety car pits the lap after the final car has unlapped itself - which would have meant the safety car staying out until the end of the race). This is against all the agreed upon regulations and just meant that Max who had fresh and softer tires was no allowed to get right behind Lewis (when he previously was like 13 seconds behind / had 5 lapped cars to pass).

The only two ways the race should have finished were either:
1, let all the lapped cars unlap themselves and bring the safety car in the following lap, therefore finishing the race under safety car and giving Lewis the WDC
2, Pit the safety car and for the final lap Lewis would have been in front of those five cars and whilst they would have had to get out of the way for Max, it would have taken a lot longer than the 2 seconds Max ended up winning by. Therefore Lewis would have been WDC.
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Cheers! I was struggling to see why both unlapping scenarios (all or none) still meant Lewis would have probably won but this explains it.
 
macheda14 said:
So Lewis had lapped every car on the track. Usually when there is a safety car EVERY lapped car is told that they are allowed unlap themselves to go past the safety car and return to track position behind those that have lapped them. OR you don't allow them to unlap themselves and then restart the race with everyone in the same position as they were when the safety car was called out. What was crazy here is Masi the race director decided that only the five cars between Lewis and Max were allowed to unlap themselves AND THEN immediately call in the safety car (the regulations say that if you were to let cars unlap themselves, the safety car pits the lap after the final car has unlapped itself - which would have meant the safety car staying out until the end of the race). This is against all the agreed upon regulations and just meant that Max who had fresh and softer tires was no allowed to get right behind Lewis (when he previously was like 13 seconds behind / had 5 lapped cars to pass).

The only two ways the race should have finished were either:
1, let all the lapped cars unlap themselves and bring the safety car in the following lap, therefore finishing the race under safety car and giving Lewis the WDC
2, Pit the safety car and for the final lap Lewis would have been in front of those five cars and whilst they would have had to get out of the way for Max, it would have taken a lot longer than the 2 seconds Max ended up winning by. Therefore Lewis would have been WDC.
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That seems to be the essense of it, if Masi wanted to get more racing laps in rather than finish under SC then he simply takes option 2. The decision to only let those 5 cars through can only of been taken to specifically plant Max behind Lewis which shouldn't even come into the mind of the race director.

Merc have a very strong case.
 
Zen said:
What exactly comes of this..... 1 v 1 shootout lap? Nope.

Think it's been said, but it'll go down like a disastrous ref decision. Just about nothing happening. The officials will state they've done well given no ones been injured in this absurd of seasons too.
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Whilst I agree that this will be the outcome, the likening to a bad referee decision is wrong. It’s more akin to a referee starting a match early when the other team haven’t taken the field and they score a goal. This isn’t judgement. It’s purely a disregard to the laws of the sport.
 
Zen said:
What exactly comes of this..... 1 v 1 shootout lap? Nope.

Think it's been said, but it'll go down like a disastrous ref decision. Just about nothing happening. The officials will state they've done well given no ones been injured in this absurd of seasons too.
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nothing will happen because they’ve got what they wanted. they broke the rules to get verstappen an advantage, no chance they change their minds.

it’ll go to court and probably get settled somehow.
 
It was making a terrible call to get an exciting final lap, disregard rules for a bit of theater and deal with the consequences later (which won't change the result of the race).
 
Also on the minutiae of the wording around overtaking under a safety car...

Being alongside and then fractionally ahead for a second is not an overtake. The rules are you cant overtake and the lead car must be ahead at the safety car line.
 
Simbo said:
That seems to be the essense of it, if Masi wanted to get more racing laps in rather than finish under SC then he simply takes option 2. The decision to only let those 5 cars through can only of been taken to specifically plant Max behind Lewis which shouldn't even come into the mind of the race director.

Merc have a very strong case.
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The strange thing is Masi did not have to be so blatant with the race fixing.

Even with 4 back markers in front, Max would have a great chance to take Lewis before the end of the lap. The back markers were obliged to move the hell out of the way.
 
altodevil said:
You are watching the wrong sport then. In F1 it is very rare that the best driver wins. Best team, sure.
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Yeah, actually quite sickening todays outcome. Funny how the FIA can twist the rules to decide whichever outcome they’d like. Enough F1 for me, it’s a joke.
 
Zen said:
What exactly comes of this..... 1 v 1 shootout lap? Nope.

Think it's been said, but it'll go down like a disastrous ref decision. Just about nothing happening. The officials will state they've done well given no ones been injured in this absurd of seasons too.
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I think if that's the case, Mercedes will go down the legal route as they've clearly broken their rules.

If it were mid-way through the race, you could argue they put their hands up but say half the race was still to go.

But given it was the last lap and had they stuck to the rules, Lewis would be the winner. Hence they have to give it to Lewis - I don't see another optoin
 
Simbo said:
That seems to be the essense of it, if Masi wanted to get more racing laps in rather than finish under SC then he simply takes option 2. The decision to only let those 5 cars through can only of been taken to specifically plant Max behind Lewis which shouldn't even come into the mind of the race director.

Merc have a very strong case.
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Exactly, why not go one car more and have the 3 podium cars unlapped, give sainz his fair chance, then why stop there and let fourth get unlapped to give them chance of a podium. The way they just set it up for second to have a clear run at a guy on 40 lap tires was just amazing, I still can’t believe it.

It was such a shambolic decision it’s laughable!
 
horsechoker said:
I don't watch F1 but is today's finish like this?

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More like this

guardiola-two.gif
 
Listening to Masi he sounds like someone from a tv program or a film that I know but I just cannot place it.
 
Simbo said:
That seems to be the essense of it, if Masi wanted to get more racing laps in rather than finish under SC then he simply takes option 2. The decision to only let those 5 cars through can only of been taken to specifically plant Max behind Lewis which shouldn't even come into the mind of the race director.

Merc have a very strong case.
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Masi's quote of saying ''This is Motor racing'' looks utterly ridiculous now with what happened in Spa. Was that Motor Racing Michael? WAS IT!!!!??!!! Don't let the door hit you on the way out
 
Thought I’d let the dust settle but still not sure what to make of it all. You can argue both would have been worthy champions and you could argue no one deserves to lose out in that way. Happy to see Lewis taking it with some grace though.

F1 has always been a cruel sport and probably always will be. The rules definitely need looking at though and the following of them needs to be more consistent.

Still, I was a neutral going into this and I am £100 up so not a bad day. I feel some affiliation to Red Bull and it is nice to see a new champion as well.

Anyway it’s F1’s version of silly season now. Who’s looking forward to the new car/livery reveals?! :drool:
 
Asger said:
I’m sure by tomorrow they will give it to Hamilton.
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They need to sort this out by Thursday as the driver is supposed to be officially crowned at the Gala but I reckon this is going to CAS.
 
horsechoker said:
Chelsea's offside goal that won them the title in 2009?
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There's no football comparison I can think of. It would be like a team winning 5-0 and the officials deciding to send four players off from the winning team and making it next goal winner.
 
rpitroda said:
Whilst I agree that this will be the outcome, the likening to a bad referee decision is wrong. It’s more akin to a referee starting a match early when the other team haven’t taken the field and they score a goal. This isn’t judgement. It’s purely a disregard to the laws of the sport.
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This, the have completely ignored the rules of the sport to create a final moment of drama, especially presenting the 'sport' closer to a WWE PPV than and actual sport.

I know Massi is the chosen one so I don't see the FIA making him the fall guy. I do think there is an outside change and a penalty which would therefore change the result. The fact it is being debated in this way by the heads of the sport just shows what an actual decision it was. The race should have just ended with the safety car if everyone could unlap themselves.
 
hellhunter said:
A bit surprised why overturning the race, applying the proper rules, would be seen as more of a farce than having the result stand with completely made up rules.
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While I take the point, you said it yourself....
Applying the proper rules.
That is the point.
You simply cannot have a sport like F1 with it inherent dangers operated by officials who make up the rules to suit their own agenda.
 
They have to repeat the race. That's the only way. Its void.
 
As they are saying know on Sky they really need to tighten up the regs for next year as much as they can - that's been evident for some months imo.
 
hobbers said:
Also on the minutiae of the wording around overtaking under a safety car...

Being alongside and then fractionally ahead for a second is not an overtake. The rules are you cant overtake and the lead car must be ahead at the safety car line.
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In a sport decided by thousandths of a second, it absolutely matters.
 
It's a lot harder to overturn a judge's decision (than penalise a driver/team for breaking the rules) and I can see this going to CAS.

If it does, CAS don't give a toss about "getting a result on the track", it's rules. But I'm not sure what decision they can come to that changes the result, because I'm not sure they'll say "if they'd let the other cars unlap, the race would be over and Hamilton wins" because they can think it would've happened but don't KNOW it.
 
The Cat said:
As they are saying know on Sky they really need to tighten up the regs for next year as much as they can - that's been evident for some months imo.
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They need to make it easier on themselves to govern. The car defending on the inside HAS to give a cars width. No more pushing/forcing others off track. Its been abused.
 
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