Erm what? Look, Lewis was leading by 13 seconds or something like that. Their actions reduced that gap as much as possible, and by taking any other action the result would be closer to the result the race was heading towards without all this.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You're using 1 lap in a weird session, where he wasn't actually faster, as an example?
Yup, agreed. There is no perfect measure but I think it is reasonable to make that comparison, as the cars are generally all in equal configurations at that point (max engine mode, no fuel etc).
I won't list out every race but I certainly don't think the Mercedes were materially slower in all the other 10 races. There's a few where they were comfortably quicker and a few where they were comfortably slower. You could perhaps make an argument their car had a narrower working window (word from Mercedes mid-season was that that was true) - off the top of my head, if you take Monaco, Bottas had no trouble getting the Mercedes to work but Lewis had no speed for reasons unknown.
NB - Max only had more poles due to Sprint racing. Mercedes were actually fastest qualifiers at Silverstone and Monza, where Max was awarded pole.
Yeah well that just about summarizes everything. F1 is a joke, everything is so staged it's actually hilarious witnessing all this as someone who only started following the sport in April.
I love it
Yeah, this was really weird to me. Max’s attempted overtake on lap 1 was a desperate lunge which obviously should be penalised (or at best not rewarded). We seem to now be in a position where he’s been doing this “yield or we crash” approach for so long that it’s been normalised. Hopefully they’ll somehow start to clamp down on him now he’s got a world title.
Yeah, what an insane piece of world class performance that was from Max, just shows that he is the greatest racer if not sporstsman of all time being able to pass Lewis in such a pressured moment. Granted, he had fresh softs whilst Lewis had very old hards, but Max needs to be hailed as the second coming of Jesus himself after driving past Lewis on that straight. The way he pushed the pedal all the way in and kept the steering wheel straight whilst passing him is a rare glimpse of what humans are capable of when pushing their abilities to the maximum. It really was the pinnacle of human performance, and we'll never see anything like it ever again. If aliens don't come and visit us now then nothing will bring them.
after the max’s driving performance on that last lap, maybe they are already here…
it begs the question was it masi’s fault or did the aliens (verstappens) do a mind control on him to ensure the odds were forever in their favour?
He lost the start on the better tires, trailed all race and yet somehow came up winner. The more I think of it the more impressive it is really. It's almost as impressive as Juve getting relegated despite winning the championship back when that happened.
Yep. If Hamilton doesn't see him coming and continues on his path Verstappen takes him out and gets a penalty.
People can say "he made the corner" but that isn't really important when you've forced another driver off the track.
Of course it's a great example. Russell should be getting nowhere near a 'superior' driver in a much better car. If Russell was in the Mercedes he smashes Verstappens lap to pieces that day.
People saying the likes or Russell/Leclerc/Norris won't be able to match Verstappen are maybe over rating Verstappen and under rating the other young drivers.
These boys are all top class racers. Give them the better car and they'll win. Look at Leclercs first year at Ferrari, he finished 6 points behind Verstappen in similar cars.
If Ferrari has the best car next year, he wins the title.
It was 1 lap.
If we're using that metric, Latifi smashed Russell's lap to pieces on Saturday so he should be able to compete with Russell and Verstappen aswell.
Leclerc's first year at Ferrari was when the Ferrari had the illegal engine, in no way were those cars similar. That Ferrari blew the Red Bull out the water. Although you could argue that Ferrari's strange strategy calls also cost Leclerc.
As for the bolded you could say the same about Williams and Albon, doesn't make him better than Verstappen either.
I'm sorry but it came down to the last race. If the rules were followed Max wouldn't have won. Therefore should he deserves it? No, in my opinion. Admittedly it is a fine margin and Max had a great season. But the answer from me remains the same.
Just like Hamilton wouldn't have deserved it if the roles were reversed.
neither, both masi and the verstappens are reptilians from another world.
Fair points.
For me though, I think the brake checking should've had a more severe penalty and the last race was a gift in the final laps, so 60/40 Hamilton was the better driver in 2021.
Edit. Forgot to add the half points fiasco giving Max a net 5 point advantage also was it?
Why do you think Max should have won before the last race? I am not sure I agree with that.
18/22 races he finished 1st or 2nd, and the 4 he didn't:
Baku - tyre blew, nothing he could do. Arguably team should have brought him in after what happened with Stroll. Lewis threw away 25 points here given what happened at the restart.
Silverstone - stewards adjudged Lewis was at fault for this (not sure I agree with them) but they don't put any blame on Max for that incident. Lewis gained 25 from this
Hungary - taken out by Bottas, nothing he could do. Mercedes lost Lewis 7 points here (potentially 8 as he would likely have been so far ahead he would have got fastest lap as well) with the non pitstop and Max couldn't have done anything else given half the floor was missing.
Monza - his fault causing that collision (according to stewards, but not sure I fully agree with them on that), but it actually helped him as he didn't lose any points to Lewis when he almost certainly would have done.
The above is why Red Bull claim they have had no luck etc all year. Not sure I agree with that in total but I do believe there wasn't much more Max could have done all season. Unfortunately for Lewis, he made THE big error of the season at Baku where he lost the 25 points - Max didn't make an error anywhere near that magnitude.
I will agree with that, so maybe 52-48 Lewis
The half points was another farce, race should have been null and voided.
I think you are spot in with this assessment.
You forgot to write Max. Corrected that for you.
I'm not really sure what you're arguing against here.
I believe Russell, Norris or Leclerc can challenge Verstappen. If you don't that's your choice. As usual in F1 it's whoever has the best car that makes the extra difference, and then we see the gap between Hamilton/Bottas or Verstappen/Perez.
We will see how close Russell runs Hamilton next year, but I bet he will be closer than Bottas ever was. When Hamilton retires he will have plenty of competition.
Tbh I'm not 100% sure i'm even arguing
I think those 3 have the potential to challenge Verstappen but if it was equal(ish) machinery, similar to Merc/Red Bull this year, that Verstappen would win.
All those 3 mentioned currently have a problem with consistency in races. They're all great qualifiers so clearly have the pace, they just need to string it all together over an entire season. I do rate all 3 of them highly, I'd even include Sainz in that group too.
It does seem as if the FIA are trying to prevent 1 team dominating with the new regs, so hopefully we'll find out over the next 2-4 years.
Really great interview about yesterday's race.
"What it did give is it gave us what we wanted"
Truer words have never been spoken unintentionally.
Personally, I would just be embarrassed to claim that I'd won that race if I were Verstappen.
However you want to argue the case, the fact is, he'd been totally dominated by Hamilton the entire race, couldn't get anywhere near him, and was almost 12 seconds adrift.
Due to a technical decision by the officials, he is gifted the decision.
For me, that's completely hollow, and absolutely no way to "win" any sporting contest.
However you want to argue the case, the fact is, he'd been totally dominated by Hamilton the entire race, couldn't get anywhere near him, and was almost 12 seconds adrift.
Due to a technical decision by the officials, he is gifted the decision.
For me, that's completely hollow, and absolutely no way to "win" any sporting contest.
This makes it very hard for him to plead ignorance. Makes it look more and more like yesterday was a manipulated result.
I'd say not only a clown, but corrupt.
It's a pretty obvious thing to suggest, but he should be investigated for sport betting irregularities.
Definitely a hollow win. Unfortunately for Max, until he wins it properly he will be thought of as a false champion.
That's pretty damning for him.
It's basically going to come down to yes he was wrong to make that decision but as per the rules he's allowed to make wrong decisions.
It won't matter to his fans, but it'll definitely cast a shadow over his win unless he backs it up with another couple.
Correct. What really annoys me about this is how people can't see the difference between this blatant manipulation and marginal calls that have gone one way or another throughout the season.
Whether you are a Max fan, a Lewis fan or a F1 fan, the worst thing that can happen is that deliberate manipulation occurs, and that is clearly and demonstrably what we got yesterday. Unprecedented tactics utilised to guarantee a certain result and a spectacle for the TV cameras.
You know what else is great about yesterday's race?
Lewis goes home knowing he is the true world champion of this year.
Max goes home knowing Lewis completely outraced him in the final races, and he wins only on a technicality and hoax, with questions over whether he is a false champion.
I'm not sure that regulation 15.3 allows him to make wrong decisions. It looks like he can make certain judgement calls but only within the regulations.
On a different note, Paul Di Resta has many reasons, which we all know, to be anti Hamilton.
But to be so blinkered on this obvious hoax makes me wonder if he is also in bed with Red Bull.
Is he a test driver for anyone?
Paul Di Resta would masturbate with Max poster after that race.
I think people are quick to forget that this goes far, far deeper than who the fans want to win, or believe deserved to have won. There are tens of millions of pounds at stake in commercial revenues and prize money. There may be sponsors and suppliers with clauses in their contracts based on winning. Staff that may have been in-line to receive bonuses based on winning.
Sport is big business now, hence why CAS exists. I would be shocked if Masi's implementation/interpretation of the rules held-up in a Court of Law, even with his 'God-clause' get-out
This, literally. Stop with this feeling bad for Max nonsense if the result is changed. Either decision now is unfair to the opposition, as neither of them did anything wrong, it's Masi who has messed up and he's the sole person to blame. Had he followed the rules and not made up his own, Lewis would be the champion and therefore in the (slim) event the decision is changed, it is the correct call.