F1 2021 Season

Infordin said:
Yes. He would have been champion without being the best driver of the season. That is undeserved in my eyes.

He made too many mistakes in the first half of the season and lost too many points as a result.

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At the end of the day, the best driver won the title, and that is uncontested if you look at the driver ratings.

These driver ratings on a race-by-race basis include scores from six different websites:

AMUS.de
Autosport.com
The-Race.com
PlanetF1.com
Crash.net
F1i.com

Five English speaking, one German speaking, no Dutch speaking.

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If that's the case, United should not have won the 99 CL final. Bayern definitely was the better team. Or maybe United should have won the 2005 FA Cup Final when we were by far the better team and yet Arsenal won -- they should have protested?

How many competitions have been won by the underperforming teams/player? But none of them were given free hits to win.

Its just silly trying to rationalise Max's season-long performance into a cheated/tainted win.

Btw they both went into the final race on exactly the same points.
 
My guess is Red Bull lost plenty of followers who could have converted to fans and Mercedes will have the opposite happen, though formula 1 may lose a few casual fans. The interest in next season is likely to increase though isn't it actually? The season of revenge.

My view is that Verstappen was gifted the title and it can't possibly be a sweet victory.
 
The reality is F1 needs Mercedes, not Red Bull. Sure they wanted a Red Bull win this year to retain the sea of orange Max fans that have tuned in, but when he’s done they’ll all be gone. And the 1 season fans will all be gone as soon as it isn’t competitive again. The owners know that long term fans and people involved with the sport aren’t happy about what happened. That’s clear by the sentiment in the paddock.

The best scenario for F1 included 3 key things. A fair fight. A showpiece finish. A Max win. If they got all 3, you keep the 1 season fans. Grow your fan base. And keep the existing fans happy. But they botched up 1 to succeed in 2 and 3.

This is where the balance all changes. You only care about the new fans and spectacle if you’re not pissing someone off who is important. Mercedes are like Ferrari. When the dust settles, F1 simply can’t afford to lose them. Do I think the result will change? No. Should it change? Maybe. But what will definitely happen is whatever else it takes behind the scenes, be it money, be it influence on rules, be it whatever, to keep Mercedes happy.
 
Piratesoup said:
I have never seen more vitriol on red cafe. Are F1-threads always like this?
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I would say there are up to 5 posters who you simply can’t discuss things with. They are literally like children with no ability to be impartial. They turn this thread into a joke at times.

You always have fans on both sides debating incidents. It’s the nature of threads like these where not everyone on the forum generally supports the same team/person. And for everyone else except those 5, you can generally hold a good debate.
 
sglowrider said:
If that's the case, United should not have won the 99 CL final. Bayern definitely was the better team. Or maybe United should have won the 2005 FA Cup Final when we were by far the better team and yet Arsenal won -- they should have protested?

How many competitions have been won by the underperforming teams/player? But none of them were given free hits to win.

Its just silly trying to rationalise Max's season-long performance into a cheated/tainted win.

Btw they both went into the final race on exactly the same points.
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Imagine if all season, Liverpool receive favourable calls while United receive unfavourable calls. United is the better team, but thanks to referees, Liverpool is able to go into the final game of the season level on points with United.

Then, in the final game of the season, United finally receive one favourable call (a penalty that wasn’t one) to win the game and ultimately the title.

Is that title tainted?
 
Abizzz said:
To be honest I don't care too much. People working inside Red Bull are long gone anyway. I'm talking about how it will be remembered in motorsport folklore and RB and this generation of 1 season fans will have no bearing on that.
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F1 season finale was a manufactured farce and risks the sport's future
Michael Masi made a decision which directly shaped the title race
https://www.marca.com/en/f1/2021/12/13/61b78798ca474188408b45ea.html

Most f1 fans from most countries will know it is tainted.
 
Infordin said:
Imagine if all season, Liverpool receive favourable calls while United receive unfavourable calls. United is the better team, but thanks to referees, Liverpool is able to go into the final game of the season level on points with United.

Then, in the final game of the season, United finally receive one favourable call (a penalty that wasn’t one) to win the game and ultimately the title.

Is that title tainted?
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Inaccurate analogy. To correct it, Max received the most favourable calls all season then the biggest favourable call in the final race.

I struggle to see how there is still any debate on this.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
F1 season finale was a manufactured farce and risks the sport's future
Michael Masi made a decision which directly shaped the title race
https://www.marca.com/en/f1/2021/12/13/61b78798ca474188408b45ea.html

Most f1 fans from most countries will know it is tainted.
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Wishful thinking, you live in a bubble.

Use the chrome extension which allows you to see dislikes on YouTube. The Abu Dhabi race received an overwhelmingly positive review.

The vast majority of F1 fans loved the season finale.
 
Infordin said:
Imagine if all season, Liverpool receive favourable calls while United receive unfavourable calls. United is the better team, but thanks to referees, Liverpool is able to go into the final game of the season level on points with United.

Then, in the final game of the season, United finally receive one favourable call (a penalty that wasn’t one) to win the game and ultimately the title.

Is that title tainted?
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A pen outside the box? Yes.
 
Infordin said:
Wishful thinking, you live in a bubble.

Use the chrome extension which allows you to see dislikes on YouTube. The Abu Dhabi race received an overwhelmingly positive review.

The vast majority of F1 fans loved the season finale.
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Must be the Netflix fans
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Inaccurate analogy. To correct it, Max received the most favourable calls all season then the biggest favourable call in the final race.

I struggle to see how there is still any debate on this.
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Max lost 70 points because of Pirelli and Mercedes playing destruction derby in Baku, Silverstone and Hungary.

Lewis still lost :lol:

Then you cry about the 7 points you lost in Abu Dhabi.
 
sglowrider said:
A pen outside the box? Yes.
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The idea that decisions or luck in the final race/game of the season makes a title tainted, but not when it happens in the middle of the season, is an incredibly stupid argument.

Every race is worth equal points.

At the end of the season, Max scored 395.5 points and Lewis 387.5 points.

You can whine about Abu Dhabi, then I will bring up Baku.

At the end of the day, Lewis lost and there’s nothing you can do about it.
 
Infordin said:
Wishful thinking, you live in a bubble.

Use the chrome extension which allows you to see dislikes on YouTube. The Abu Dhabi race received an overwhelmingly positive review.

The vast majority of F1 fans loved the season finale.
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Water tight scientific proof right there :lol:
 
Infordin said:
The idea that decisions or luck in the final race/game of the season makes a title tainted, but not when it happens in the middle of the season, is an incredibly stupid argument.

Every race is worth equal points.

At the end of the season, Max scored 395.5 points and Lewis 387.5 points.

You can whine about Abu Dhabi, then I will bring up Baku.

At the end of the day, Lewis lost and there’s nothing you can do about it.
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Yeah, doesn't change what we all saw happen. Lewis had it until Masi decided otherwise.
 
hellhunter said:
Water tight scientific proof right there :lol:
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I would argue that a sample size of over 300,000 votes is significantly better than whatever evidence Fluctuation has for his claim (which is absolutely nothing).
 
Abizzz said:
Yeah, doesn't change what we all saw happen. Lewis had it until Masi decided otherwise.
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Somehow I'm fairly sure this notion that Max deserved it because he had more points after the final race wouldn't quite stand if Masi didn't decide the race and Lewis won
 
Abizzz said:
Yeah, doesn't change what we all saw happen. Lewis had it until Masi decided otherwise.
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Lewis had the race until the safety car came out.

Max had Lewis on the ropes until Mercedes began playing destruction derby in Silverstone and Hungary.

At the end of the day, neither matters. The only thing that matters is.

395.5
387.5

Whining about how many points your favourite driver should have scored if not for XYZ will get you nowhere.
 
hellhunter said:
Somehow I'm fairly sure this notion that Max deserved it because he had more points after the final race wouldn't quite stand if Masi didn't decide the race and Lewis won
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I guess it depends on youtube likes :lol:
Infordin said:
Lewis had the race until the safety car came out.

Max had Lewis on the ropes until Mercedes began playing destruction derby in Silverstone and Hungary.

At the end of the day, neither matters. The only thing that matters is.

395.5
387.5

Whining about how many points your favourite driver should have scored if not for XYZ will get you nowhere.
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I'm not looking to go anywhere. I'm simply calling it as I saw it and that seems to work you up a bit...
 
Just to clarify all, Infordin is part of the elite group of posters you should firmly not bother engaging with. We learnt this lesson last time, eventually people stopped, and he went away. Sadly he’s back, but the same approach will work.
 
Abizzz said:
I guess it depends on youtube likes :lol:
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If someone wants to make the claim that the majority of people hated what happened in Abu Dhabi, they best bring some actual evidence.

Hamilton fans, especially the English ones, live in a massive bubble.

Most people loved the season finale, you are just a vocal minority.
 
rpitroda said:
Just to clarify all, Infordin is part of the elite group of posters you should firmly not bother engaging with. We learnt this lesson last time, eventually people stopped, and he went away. Sadly he’s back, but the same approach will work.
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Yes, we get it, you don’t want any Verstappen fans posting. You just want a moaning session with fellow Hamilton fans.

It’s OK, you’ll get over it eventually.
 
Infordin said:
If someone wants to make the claim that the majority of people hated what happened in Abu Dhabi, they best bring some actual evidence.

Hamilton fans, especially the English ones, live in a massive bubble.

Most people loved the season finale, you are just a vocal minority.
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What does that matter?

Go watch big brother or something if you want to see a popularity contest.
 
Infordin said:
Wishful thinking, you live in a bubble.

Use the chrome extension which allows you to see dislikes on YouTube. The Abu Dhabi race received an overwhelmingly positive review.

The vast majority of F1 fans loved the season finale.
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If your were appalled by the finish the first time, you are not going to watch it again on YouTube. Max fans absolutely would though.

I've not seen the highlights, but I bet they brushed over all the farcial elements.
 
Infordin said:
Yes, we get it, you don’t want any Verstappen fans posting. You just want a moaning session with fellow Hamilton fans.

It’s OK, you’ll get over it eventually.
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Plenty of Max fans I’d happily engage with and do. Just not you. And ironic that you think I’m a Hamilton fan.
 
Manny said:
If your were appalled by the finish the first time, you are not going to watch it again on YouTube. Max fans absolutely would though.
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Canada 2019 received over 50% downvotes.

Abu Dhabi 2021 received just 5% downvotes.
 
NK86 said:
First, it's not a "disaster". Second, it's supposed to be a spectacle (not at the expense of integrity of the event of course) else why does any professional sports even exist.

Masi said that all teams had earlier discussed and decided that they didn't want to end races under SC where it was possible to avoid it. It was possible to have a racing lap but Masi absolutely botched it by not letting the lapped cars unlap themselves one lap earlier. The feck up started there.

I agree that it should have been all cars a lap earlier. Same result but none of this outpour of emotion which we are seeing now. It actually broke some of the posters it seems :lol:
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It is a bloody 'disaster'. Some maybe wanted sports entertainment, but I wanted to watch good sport. Its what keeps me glued to the season rather than just reading results on BBC Sports page. I also casually follow WWE and I get a plenty dose of dramatic sports entertainment and 'spectacles' there.

If Masi fecked up, he fecked up. He can't break the rules to correct it later. If a football ref misses a pen in the first half, he misses it. Can he reset the game 0-0 and give the missed pen to the team in the last 5 min of the game? I have never seen that happen. It makes it a farce.

I've had to explain what happened to so many friends and colleagues who don't follow the sport but heard what happened since Sunday. I'm getting tired of saying: 'I think we witnessed something that we shouldn't have witnessed on live TV'. I certainly didn't want to see that. I think my mood would have been better had I missed the race and read the results on BBC.
 
Redlambs said:
If I bother with next year's thread, I think I'm going to have to use it for the first time.

Then again, I probably won't be taking much interesting in this "sport" again.
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I started using it for the first time yesterday after thinking I wouldn't need to. I can see me getting a bit trigger happy with it from now on :lol:

It is interesting to see where F1 goes from here. It feels like it's all just going to be swept under the carpet though and not mentioned again
 
sewey89 said:
The ignore button is fantastic.
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Yep. Imagine how sad your life must be that you’ve nothing else to do except bring straw man arguments to a racing sport thread… on a football forum… for a team you don’t even support… which is based in another country from the team you support? He probably gets a huge thrill from it, and yeah, he does manage to rile some people up, so potentially considered a success, but when the dust settles… the poor lads real world hasn’t changed. Or perhaps he just can’t stand it that his champion, deserving or not, will always have that cloud over his first championship.
 
Infordin said:
Whining about how many points your favourite driver should have scored if not for XYZ will get you nowhere.
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ironic as that's all I see you doing about Baku, Istanbul and Silverstone :lol:

If you're going to use all of those as points, why not talk about Spa? it's amazing how you always seem to forget that completely free win also.

At the end of the day Max was 4 laps away from losing, then the FIA decided to crown Max the champion.

I'm sure their Netflix ratings will be as high as they wish.
 
hellhunter said:
Eagerly awaiting what lunatic metric will be wheeled out next to justify this farce :lol:
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Once again missing the point, astonishing.

All I ask is for some evidence that “most people saw this race as a farce”.

Go ahead, give me evidence.
 
Adam-Utd said:
ironic as that's all I see you doing about Baku, Istanbul and Silverstone :lol:
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Once again missing the point. Amazing, it’s like I’m talking to brick walls here.

I only bring up those incidents because I find it pathetic how Hamilton fans moan about this 14 point swing, while simultaneously ignoring all the crap Verstappen had to deal with this year.

If you lot didn’t cry so much about Abu Dhabi, I wouldn’t bring up the other incidents this year. Simple.
 
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