Again as a disclaimer, I don't wish to catch the new strain, I've had the first and was quite badly hit from it, I've recovered fully but also understand a lot haven't, this was purely hypothetical and appreciate the answers guys, thank you
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Again as a disclaimer, I don't wish to catch the new strain, I've had the first and was quite badly hit from it, I've recovered fully but also understand a lot haven't, this was purely hypothetical and appreciate the answers guys, thank you
I saw the data about how many times difference in Switzerland the other day (might of even been you who posted it)
Is this just because of the relative time the booster was given and we will all go back to the same baseline rather then it improving anything in the long term, has enough time even passed to answer this question?
That would be my thoughts anyway it certainly had its place for the vulnerable in this part of the pandemic not so sure it was necessary population wide apart from trying to ease disruption to society.
There could be a valid reason to get a 4th shot when the Omicron specific vaccine is ready to protect against any future nasty variants that come from that. I believe Moderna are in phase III trials and Phizer are aiming for March.
I also saw that Moderna are aiming for a combined COVID-19, influenza and RSV vaccine ready for Autumn next year with each element specifically targeted at what is around at the time (similar to influenza now). I can't see any reason not to do that annually as long as it's not a crazy cost to buy.
I also saw that Moderna are aiming for a combined COVID-19, influenza and RSV vaccine ready for Autumn next year with each element specifically targeted at what is around at the time (similar to influenza now). I can't see any reason not to do that annually as long as it's not a crazy cost to buy.
The trouble is that, it depends on how long ago you were infected, which variant and how powerful was your immune response at the time. We know that people with past infection + vaccination are better protected than those with vaccine alone or infection alone. Boosters also help both groups.
I've not seen data on a twice infected/no vaccine group as yet. In the UK at least they would be rarities, though I guess there are a lot more of them now - so maybe we'll know the answer next winter. That's always going to be an issue really, it's going to be hard to get evidence that's as up to date as the evidence we can get on the vaccinated.
Further shots could be to either keep active antibodies going so we don't have to rely on the slightly delayed reaction of memory cells or because a new vaccine, tweaked for Omicron (or anther new dominant variant), becomes available.
The former will be likely imo until most of the world is hugely vaccinated and we enter some sort of endemic state. The later until new variants stop arising, which is also largely dependent on vaccinating the world.
Looks like the majority of reported side effects aren't real
https://www.theguardian.com/science...eactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
https://www.theguardian.com/science...eactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests
Boostered today after putting it off til we were back in work (get a half day off for it).
Briefed my boss there's a good chance I'll be sick tomorrow, having been sick after both previous doses and just worked through it.
He was fine with that, and told me, because I didn't take the half days for the first and second shots (was sick for 2 days after the second, but again, worked through it) my booster will be recorded as my first shot and I can take 2 more half days whenever suits.
Sweet!
Briefed my boss there's a good chance I'll be sick tomorrow, having been sick after both previous doses and just worked through it.
He was fine with that, and told me, because I didn't take the half days for the first and second shots (was sick for 2 days after the second, but again, worked through it) my booster will be recorded as my first shot and I can take 2 more half days whenever suits.
Sweet!
Received my booster last Sunday. I'm also lucky that I haven't caught the virus so far despite one or two close calls.
In other new, 8 hours after my booster, the arm is totally dead.... looks like I'll be one handed wanking tomorrow.
Anecdotal, but my best friend is a GP. He is not incentivised to vaccinate people (to a degree that would affect his judgement). And he HATES his job right now. I can’t see a world in which he’s happy to administer vaccines instead of treating patients.
No. Happy to be proven wrong. But that’s very wrong I think. Thousands, yes. Hundreds of millions, no.
https://sports.yahoo.com/more-100-million-covid-19-120339141.html
Maybe I can change plural 100.000.000 to singular, at most. You would still be 100-900x wrong. If you meant hundreds of thousands. If you meant thousands, as in 2-9k, you would be 11.111-50.000x wrong. That's actually impressive!
That link is evidence that the world is letting Africa down. Not that Africa is wasting vaccines. WE (the developed world) wasted those vaccines.
Anyway, yep. I meant thousands as in 1000 to 999,999. Not 9000 or less.
If a country is so disorganised they can't get vaccines in arms in less than 3 weeks, it is only their own fault. The Kenyan guy is crying that 10 weeks is not enough
But as you are more than 100x wrong in your numbers, I don't really care to waste more time on this with you.If a country is so disorganised they can't get vaccines in arms in less than 3 weeks, it is only their own fault. The Kenyan guy is crying that 10 weeks is not enough
1. Africa is not a country.
2. You’re wrong.
3. I clarified my numbers. I was right.
The so called developed world can’t just ship vaccines ad hoc and blame third world countries for not utilising them. You sound like you’ve never been there. Have you?
The increase in “vaccine risk” between 2nd and 3rd dose is so trivial it’s not worth thinking about. Basically, if you’re one of the unlucky handful of people out of every million that has a serious adverse reaction to the vaccine then that would have already been uncovered after the first two doses.
You’re still wrong though. In that linked article they refer to 100 million doses rejected in December alone. By the end of 2021 the EU had made available 380 million doses, of which only 255 million had been accepted.
All of which means that if the EU decided to stop vaccinating its citizens tomorrow in order to follow the WHO’s request to “vaccinate the world” the main consequence would be an astronomical amount of vaccines ending up in landfill.
There’s a discussion to be had about what more can be done to help developing countries with the infrastructure needed to better vaccinate their citizens but it’s obvious that vaccine supply is not the rate limiting step here.
Also if you get a different booster? People around here who had been Pfizer vaxxed, myself included, got a Moderna booster.
Apart from that I'd also assume that the risk of omicron is still much higher than the risk of a vaccine, even if omicron is somewhat "mild" for a lot of people.
If it’s an either/or decision between vaccine or catching covid then it’s a no brainer. The relative risk of a bad outcome isn’t even in the same ballpark. When community spread is very low that changes things up a bit (because there’s a good chance you will never be exposed to covid) but we’re nowhere near that stage at the moment.
I got AZ for my first two. Next will be one of the mRNA ones, not sure which my clinic has.
So there’s a slightly different risk profile between those classes of vaccines but there is overlap. So if you didn’t have any bother with the first two you’d have to be extraordinarily unlucky for something to go wrong with the next one. Plus AZ protection seems to wane quite dramatically but the combination of AZ with and mRNA booster seems to give excellent protection. Basically, you should get boosted!
This is the key quote in that article:
It is the responsibility of Covax to get vaccines to the poorer nations which is now happening. When vaccines arrived in Europe they were being used within days. If African nations cant organise to do the same in months, that's not the world's fault.
I’m not. African countries are rejecting the vaccines. Not pissing them away.
The ‘developed’ and apparently civilised world is sending vaccines with short shelf life’s, at short notice, to some of the poorest nations on earth.
We treat Africa with such disregard. “They need vaccines, here’s 100m of them” That’s a sound approach if they’re going to Kinshasa or Addis Ababa, but chucking product at a continent where 4 in every 5 people have no internet connection isn’t helpful.
We should be sending structured Aid, supply chain assistance and vaccines with the longest shelf life’s, not the shortest. The truth obviously exists somewhere between Massis over the top number and my massive undersell. I just take exception to these generalisations about Africa. Probably too sensitive.
Respectfully…. Yes it Fcuking is. Many African cities are every bit as developed as London or Paris. But it’s a whopping great big land mass and we’re giving some of the poorest nations on earth, shorter time frames than we work to. It’s madness.
If I remember correctly, only 25% of African women have access to contraception, but 50% want access to it. Various disease outbreaks have had decades long education programs attached to them. But Covid? We send surplus vaccines with short shelf lives. What the feck are we doing? We are failing. It IS our problem.
Again, probably being a little sensitive and puritanical, but there we go.
It's the responsibility of the respective governments in those countries to effectively distribute the vaccines to their population, just as it was the governments of Europe and America. If they have the vaccines and are not doing that, you can't point the finger anywhere else. They've had a year to prepare for this yet they're being caught by surprise at the sudden volume increase. 10 weeks is over 2 months. It's more than enough time to use them. When vaccines first arrived here they were literally going in people's arms the day after they were trucked in.
Yep, a lot of short shelf life stuff arriving at short notice and without any logistical support. Plus, we're now so far down the track that most people will have had (or think they've had) covid and motivation levels will be low. Supplies that would have snapped up 6 months ago will seem less important (to individuals and to government healthcare providers) in places where delta and now omicron have raced through the community.
In vaccine rich countries it's easy to see the advantages of vaccines, even in people with past infection, and for people with minimal known risk factors - and even so, not everyone is convinced. In a country that hasn't seen the vaccine impact, people get used to the idea that they can fend for themselves, a kind of "hasn't killed me yet" resignation.
The switch in the US and Europe to more or less mRNA only vaccine strategies probably leaves a mark as well. Logistically easier (and cheaper!) vaccines like AZ, or the inactivated virus ones like Covaxin/Bharat or the Chinese brands can get labelled as second rate options - which is no help to anyone.
That’s the point though, isn’t it?
Getting vaccines into arms in Africa means fixing systemic problems that have persisted for decades despite aid programs pumping vast sums of money into the continent. The nature of this pandemic means you’ve got months to try and sort out those chronic problems.
Translating aid into tangible benefits is a complex and politically sensitive task, as I’m sure you know. You can’t just send in a foreign army to march all over the continent and sort shit out.
Maybe there are some quick fixes? There are people much better qualified than me to have an opinion about that. Whatever, it’s obvious that the first and most urgent problem is finding a way for Africa to make better use of the vaccines already allocated. So whenever the WHO (or assorted Twitter whingers) get outraged about booster programs and say “those doses should be going to Africa instead!” it’s fair to say they’re missing the point.
I've seen a very similar rumour is spread by antivax groups targeting different faiths. So Hindus are told that the vaccine contains cow foetus cells, Muslims are told it contains pig foetus cells and Christians are being told it contains human foetus cells. I'd be very surprised if any of this were true.
What about the deaths?
Much the same with the majority actually being Tory life peers.
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Yes it is. You have to account for why these countries don't have the resources to do it.
This entirely. People acting like it's easy to do just because they're in a place that can do it easily.
Convenient.
If the pharmaceutical companies apply this concept to testing new drugs, then no negative side effects will ever be attributed to their products.
Jaysis, spent most of the day with my skin crawling, not able to eat, absolutely freezing, and totally exhausted after my third dose yesterday.
Each additional shot has given me ever increasing side effects, not that I'm complaining too much, this doesn't come anywhere near being in ICU on a ventilator, so happy enough to suffer it (and call in sick while i do!).
Anecdotally seems there's a bit of a trend of people I know who had Pfizer initially and then modena for the booster being fecked by the booster.
The wife had the exact same doses as me and had no ill effects, the bitch!
Each additional shot has given me ever increasing side effects, not that I'm complaining too much, this doesn't come anywhere near being in ICU on a ventilator, so happy enough to suffer it (and call in sick while i do!).
Anecdotally seems there's a bit of a trend of people I know who had Pfizer initially and then modena for the booster being fecked by the booster.
The wife had the exact same doses as me and had no ill effects, the bitch!
What an odd take. This just demonstrated that lots of the minor reported side effects were imaginary and/or because people were looking for them.
The third shot often has the greatest side effects. Good in a way as it means your immune system is working well.
Bovine cells or biological material is used in vaccine research and the growth medium in vaccine production. The vaccines themselves don't contain bovine material from what I've read.
It doesn't matter really as both give fantastic protection against serious disease.
I’m not sure what your point is here. This isn’t a new phenomenon. It’s been known about for decades. In every placebo controlled study ever reported the subjects in the placebo arm always get a load of side effects.
Yeah, being an alpha, I take it as proof my system is winning the good fight against the shot
I've had the worst side effects of anyone I know to every shot, even the wife thinks I'm milking it at this stage. Added to that I've a pretty extreme, completely irrational, phobia of needles, but feck it, you suffer it (in context), getting the shot yesterday, for some reason was the hardest one so far for me in terms of anxiety. But now I can go see my 79 year old mam next week with a little less worry.
And you can be damn sure I'm ringing in sick tomorrow and taking the dogs out instead if I feel up to it.