Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[Mciahel Goodman]

I don't think it is, as a NFZ would incentivize both sides to avoid conflict. It would also incentivize Putin to change tactics not involving air surpremacy.

But if Putin concedes a NFZ, that makes whatever he's trying to do a lot more difficult. It would be seen as direct interference (an act of war). It's like rolling the dice then as to whether it all escalates to the point where no one wants it to.

It's an absurd comparison.

I agree, I think the Putin/Hitler comparisons are misplaced.

Yeah there are obvious differences, but perhaps the lesson from that incident is that ultimately each side can find an excuse to overlook it/back down, if they feel it’s in their interest. I.e. nuclear war is not inevitable in the event it happens.

Agreed, but the self-economic-suicide of this whole invasion tells me that the Russians are not playing from the same playbook as before.They've basically placed a worldwide embargo on themselves and did it knowingly.

 

[Cardboard elk]

 

[VorZakone]

 

[calodo2003]

Well, shit.

 

[2cents]

Agreed, but the self-economic-suicide of this whole invasions tells me that the Russians are not playing from the same playbook as before.They've basically placed a worldwide embargo on themselves and did it knowingly.

Yeah I’m struggling to understand it. Cool heads definitely needed on the other side.

 

[VorZakone]

God damn, it's gonna get rough.

 

[UncleBob]

But if Putin concedes a NFZ, that makes whatever he's trying to do a lot more difficult. It would be seen as direct interference (an act of war). It's like rolling the dice then as to whether it all escalates to the point where no one wants it to.


I agree, I think the Putin/Hitler comparisons are misplaced.

Agreed, but the self-economic-suicide of this whole invasion tells me that the Russians are not playing from the same playbook as before.They've basically placed a worldwide embargo on themselves and did it knowingly.

christ.

 

[Water Melon]

There have been many occasions where such has been ignored, but have there been any where it was war on the Russian border? This is a different level.

This is a different level for NATO. Syria was pro-Russian with their military base there. Ukraine is being bombed because it is anti Putin and pro-democratic, while many NATO countries border on Ukraine.

 

[Raoul]

But if Putin concedes a NFZ, that makes whatever he's trying to do a lot more difficult.

No shit. That's the entire point.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

christ.

What exactly?

 

[alexthelion]

If a NATO fighter downs a Russian one, or vice versa, that is nuclear war territory in reality not just actuality. Semantics will not matter should this happen.

Not over one plane it wouldn't be.

You really like to play the 'don't do anything to Putin, he'll just fire his nukes card', don't you?

 

[hellhunter]

No shit. That's the entire point.

So why would he agree/respect it?

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

No shit. That's the entire point.

Yes, obviously, but the entire point is it also equals a literal conflict between NATO and Russia. It's fecking insane.

 

[Raoul]

So why would he agree/respect it?

Because he would be risk war with Ukraine (where he's already flopping) and a military that is far more advanced and battle hardened than his own.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Not over one plane it wouldn't be.

You really like to play the 'don't do anything to Putin, he'll just fire his nukes card', don't you?

Yeah, I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to a nuclear conflict being much more likely because some want NATO to intervene directly.

 

[Suv666]

This just highlights how a lot of people view statehood and the responsibility of being a citizen of a given country in the present. People are more than happy to moan about politicians from the comfort of their homes, but less interested putting their lives on the line to protect their country, family, and way of life.

Weird take, I can only be critical if I am ready to die for the nation?

Nationalism has caused more wars than anything in history maybe less than religion buts its up there. World wars have been caused by extreme nationalism. Even in this Ukranian conflict Russian nationalism has played a significant role if you go by Putin's speech.

In times of extreme crisis like the one right now sure one's got to tap into the dark side of our humanity (nationalism being of them) because its a literal kill or be killed situation for the Ukrainians but that shouldn't be our default position. That would just lead to more wars.

 

[shamans]

This is mad. A war reported in real time using twitter. Mental.

I see such comments a lot on here and I don't mean disrespect but do people in Euroe/North America think the rest of the world does not exist? This is not the first War in the world since social media or twitter

 

[Raoul]

Weird take, I can only be critical if I am ready to die for the nation?

Nationalism has caused more wars than anything in history maybe less than religion buts its up there. World wars have been caused by extreme nationalism. Even in this Ukranian conflict Russian nationalism has played a significant role if you go by Putin's speech.

In times of extreme crisis like the one right now sure one's got to tap into the dark side of our humanity (nationalism being of them) because its a literal kill or be killed situation for the Ukrainians but that shouldn't be our default position. That would just lead to more wars.

There are really only maybe two options here. You can fight to preserve the existence of your country or flee. Yes ?

 

[Neo_Mufc]

I ready today that Zelinksy is Jewish yet Putin insults the country is run by neo Nazis

Is this the most stupid thing that has come out of his mouth.

 

[UncleBob]

What exactly?

I agree, I think the Putin/Hitler comparisons are misplaced.

 

[the hea]

Leaked intelligence report from Estonias Former Chief of Defense

 

[Suv666]

Why is the EU dragging its feet over Swift?
Should have happened already.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I see such comments a lot on here and I don't mean disrespect but do people in Euroe/North America think the rest of the world does not exist? This is not the first War in the world since social media or twitter

Of course they do, but those aren’t in Europe so obviously they won’t get the sort of attention this one has. Plus, a lot of the other countries in which wars rage simply aren’t as advanced nor are spots where twitter is so heavily used in every aspect of society.

 

[JTW95]

Why is the EU dragging its feet over Swift?
Should have happened already.

I guess it's certain countries caring more about keeping their gas prices down rather than saving innocent lives in another country.

 

[dumbo]

I get that it's all grist to the morale boosting mill but isn't circulating this stuff rubbing up a little close to the Geneva Convention with regards to the treatment of prisoners?

 

[Simbo]

May they RiP.

 

[Water Melon]

The fecker has already grabbed lands from neighbour countries, eradicated any sort of opposition in his home country, is now bombing a sovereign country next to him, having already occupied part of it and treating it as an artificial state that should not exist. He has put TOS 1 to be ready eradicate anything, yet we are here thinking that maybe nobody should fight his army, in case his existing opponent fails and citizens die in thousands.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Wow. Quite a series of tweets if true. Come on Ukraine!

 

[Raoul]

I ready today that Zelinksy is Jewish yet Putin insults the country is run by neo Nazis

Is this the most stupid thing that has come out of his mouth.

In Putin's case, its just disinformation for domestic consumption. He used the same narrative 8 years ago when he invaded Crimea and Donbas, under the pretext he was "protecting Russian speakers" from fascists.

 

[shamans]

Of course they do, but those aren’t in Europe so obviously they won’t get the sort of attention this one has. Plus, a lot of the other countries in which wars rage simply aren’t as advanced nor are spots where twitter is so heavily used in every aspect of society.

Twitter may not be as heavily used but the disparity of power between Russia and Ukrain is not much too dissimilar to say ISIS and Turkey. This is more like big bully Russia wrecking Ukraine than a head to head War. Anyway, maybe I follow the news regularly or something.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

Doesn't sound very plausible. More like wishful thinking.

 

[the_cliff]

The fecker has already grabbed lands from neighbour countries, eradicated any sort of opposition in his home country, is now bombing a sovereign country next to him, having already occupied part of it and treating it as an artificial state that should not exist. He has put TOS 1 to be ready eradicate anything, yet we are here thinking that maybe nobody should fight his army, in case his existing opponent fails and citizens die in thousands.

Agreed, but why do you think NATO/The West aren't getting involved ?

 

[calodo2003]

May they RiP.

That’s a hell of a sight.

 

[frostbite]

Yes, obviously, but the entire point is it also equals a literal conflict between NATO and Russia. It's fecking insane.

It seems to me that you really think Putin is batshit crazy. Russia is much weaker than NATO, so it will be suicide for them to do anything against NATO.

You may be right, perhaps Putin is now completely insane. But have you thought that even if Putin is crazy and has no problem killing himself, perhaps the others around him might not be willing to destroy Russia and they might get rid of Putin before he starts using nukes? Nobody loves crazy dictators, not even their lackeys.

 

[Raoul]

spoke with the father of a Russian military man who was captured in Ukraine he learned about what happened to his son from social networks and for a long time could not believe The Ministry of Defense has been silent all this time about the military who could have been captured or died in Ukraine

 

[UncleBob]

Agreed, but why do you think NATO/The West aren't getting involved ?

There's a vast number of reasons, obviously nuclear threat is one of them but hardly top of the list.

 

[the_cliff]

It seems to me that you really think Putin is batshit crazy. Russia is much weaker than NATO, so it will be suicide for them to do anything against NATO.

You may be right, perhaps Putin is now completely insane. But have you thought that even if Putin is crazy and has no problem killing himself, perhaps the others around him might not be willing to destroy Russia and they might get rid of Putin before he starts using nukes? Nobody loves crazy dictators, not even their lackeys.

Add to the fact that the families of said Oligarchs are mostly in Europe anyway. Don't think they'd want a nuke going off wherever their children could be.

 

[2cents]

Leaked intelligence report from Estonias Former Chief of Defense

Don’t see much reason to give credibility to this kind of stuff.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

It seems to me that you really think Putin is batshit crazy. Russia is much weaker than NATO, so it will be suicide for them to do anything against NATO.

You may be right, perhaps Putin is now completely insane. But have you thought that even if Putin is crazy and has no problem killing himself, perhaps the others around him might not be willing to destroy Russia and they might get rid of Putin before he starts using nukes? Nobody loves crazy dictators, not even their lackeys.

I have no idea except the bold has already happened. They have moved against the NATO alliance in terms of expected sanctions and so on. It has already been an economic suicide. So I'm wary because I have no idea how far they're willing to go in the Ukraine. Pretty fecking far if they've factored all this in and are still doing it, is my guess.

 

[Droid_Repairs]

Is this an actual opinion, or some idea of a joke?

Almost certain it's a parody.

He also says: " I'm not going to debate with somebody who did not attend Cambridge University. That would be punching down. "