Very much so
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yes, especially to give Putin the pretext to use tactical nukes.
Just such a naive post. You’ve created a scenario where people haven’t condemned Iraq and other similar excursions by the west, which is bullshit. You then bring it up in a thread about Ukraine, which is bullshit. Your post implies we have no right to be angry at Russia because of what the west has done, which is bullshit. And you’ve even somehow managed to suggest all these events are somehow comparable, which is bullshit. All while hiding behind a lazy argument and holier than thou attitude, that we are ignorantly berating what’s happening. Which, you guessed it, is also bullshit.I have absolutely no support for Russia at all mate, I don't know why you're blowing up at me
Oh and btw I'm sure Putin and Russia have their own bullshit justification for the invasion, just as the US did, It's just you prefer to believe the West and turn a blind eye on their sins so you can sleep better at night.
War is Evil so is the killing of innocent people no matter who does it. but if you think the condemnation and international backlash/sanctions has been anywhere remotely similar to that faced by the US in their invasion of Iraq you need to give your head a wobble.
That's my worry tbh. The public backing of Ukraine by the West has pushed the boundaries a lot more than ever before (Certainly in my lifetime).
Let's hope the Russians decide to do the right thing like a coup or something or we're all fecked.
Sadam Hussein was an evil dictator, responsible for murder of thousands of his own people. Where war is wrong and nobody wanted to see innocents die, the world is a better place without madmen in charge.
Perhaps they're getting defensive as actually it is pretty annoying to have to wade through. This is a pretty good source of information and discussion on the Ukraine situation and by harping on about Iraq and Indian colonial history and everything else that's made an appearence it becomes tangential.I have absolutely no support for Russia at all mate, I don't know why you're blowing up at me
Oh and btw I'm sure Putin and Russia have their own bullshit justification for the invasion, just as the US did, It's just you prefer to believe the West and turn a blind eye on their sins so you can sleep better at night.
War is Evil so is the killing of innocent people no matter who does it. but if you think the condemnation and international backlash/sanctions has been anywhere remotely similar to that faced by the US in their invasion of Iraq you need to give your head a wobble.
Perhaps if there is an axe to grind on those subjects it should be done elsewhere. How can it be constructive here to criticise people's actions 10 or 20 or 100 years ago. The point is whether they're acting correctly now or not.
Like I said, I don't know about George Bush, but people are trying to hold Tony Blair accountable
It’s weird how the whataboutism pops up again and again. It’s daft, unnecessary, irrelevant, and troll like behavior.
There was (and still is, to some extent) massive protests and loud condemnation when the US invaded Iraq, all over the western world.
I think most people in here loathe Saudi Arabia and condemn what is going on in Yemen, even though we don’t protest in the streets.
But really, do the “what about” guys actually think it’s weird, that when a possible world war event is happening in our very own back yard, our voices become a bit louder?
Is it weird that we (well, the Europeans among us, at least) are more afraid, more invested and more vocal now? Do we have to actively and loudly condemn every single war, war crime, invasion in history, before having an opinion on this?
I’m more afraid and angry if my next door neighbor is robbed at gunpoint, than I am when someone is robbed at gunpoint in Australia. I condemn both actions, but I only get emotionally involved in one of them.
@Mciahel Goodman You calling this a “racist narrative” is not cool. You’re a troll. Simple as. Feck off.
There was (and still is, to some extent) massive protests and loud condemnation when the US invaded Iraq, all over the western world.
I think most people in here loathe Saudi Arabia and condemn what is going on in Yemen, even though we don’t protest in the streets.
But really, do the “what about” guys actually think it’s weird, that when a possible world war event is happening in our very own back yard, our voices become a bit louder?
Is it weird that we (well, the Europeans among us, at least) are more afraid, more invested and more vocal now? Do we have to actively and loudly condemn every single war, war crime, invasion in history, before having an opinion on this?
I’m more afraid and angry if my next door neighbor is robbed at gunpoint, than I am when someone is robbed at gunpoint in Australia. I condemn both actions, but I only get emotionally involved in one of them.
@Mciahel Goodman You calling this a “racist narrative” is not cool. You’re a troll. Simple as. Feck off.
Somebody on twitter said "this war is blurring the lines between conventional and proxy warfare". Usually in a proxy war it's an open secret that bigger powers are involved but they don't say it out loud. Or not that much anyway.
The immense public backing is a very serious threat to Russia. Lethal aid is being sent to Ukraine knowing that Russians are going to get killed with it. How Russia deals with this open backing and how they'll justify potential escalations must have weighed heavily on Western planners' minds I reckon.
People are going to Ukraine to fight for the people too.
The Republican side was hardly a democratic ideal. They were so busy killing each other outside Barcelona they made Franco's job a lot easier. They were also sponsored by a tyrannical dictator. Ukraine has a democratically elected President.
Yes, and no. On the one hand as others have said it gives a pretext for Putin to escalate. On the other, does it change whatever Putin had planned? And he could fabricate that excuse for a plethora of reasons if we didn’t arm Ukraine. The reality is it adds tension yes. But, if Putin is going to escalate, it won’t be because we’ve armed Ukraine. That’s just my take, anyway.
And so what? They going to invade Europe?
Vladimir Putin is a war criminal and Tony Blair just got knighted. Please don't try to equate the rightful criticism of Russia with the indifference towards war crimes Iraq.
I thought the Buran and space program were Russian. Anyway, its too confusing..!
The US was responsible, by the end, for more dead people than Saddam (250k dead kids alone prior to 2003).
As for comparisons to condemnation, people are right. There was mass civil condemnation, but it was all ignored and largely did absolutely nothing (Blair just received a knighthood, no?). There was little to no serious diplomatic condemnation (cessation of trade) or talks of warcrimes except by activists who have also been ignored. Don't even want to talk about Iraq, my point is largely that the media consensus will be understood in months to come as a rather unseemly pretext (and that's the similarity between the two: foreign enlistment, celebrating Molotovs, and crowdfunding weaponry. Can we apply these three principles to Palestine and Yemen, now? No, and rightly so. But all of that is falling by the wayside (it will be understood as absolute idiocy and hypocrisy on the part of the media in the context of history).
Oh please, not that excuse again.
Tbh I thought it was russian too, but it was massive and painted in Ukraine colours so I can see why they smashed it.
Mods need to do a better job in here, constantly off track.
Keep to the topic not whataboutism
I am unsure that it changes anything.
We are talking about Putin who has stated that one of the reasons for this invasion is that the Jewish president is a Nazi.
It gives him an additional tool in his propaganda but he is more than willing to just invent one out of thin air anyway.
The little fat moron is gonna get his war isn't he.
what is he trying to symbolise with the 2 lightening bolts? There’s probably something else more apt and less controversial.
Good point, yes. If he wanted to escalate with the west, there are a number of other reasons he could shit out.
Not invade, no, that would be unwinnable - it might give him the bullshit pretext to use thermobarics in Ukraine or even a tactical nuke, either would put the world on a knife edge. Especially the latter.
I feel like he's a cornered animal, unpredictable and dangerous.
It certainly is racist. Why are nonwhite people in warzones right now (ones we are actively sponsoring) of less value? If you have a better answer, I'll gladly feck off.
That's pretty much what the politicians are trying to peddle.
To be fair, and to be pedantic without challenging the other points you made, successive Governments have made Blair a political pariah. The knighthood was a personal honour bestowed by the monarch which cannot be challenged legally or politically.
A very interesting point. When I try and think how this ends as peacefully as possible, there really isn’t a scenario with wide spread public rejection of what Putin is doing by Russian citizens. I mean, Putin doesn’t care anyway - but if he manages to generate a scenario where Russians buy into what he’s doing and create that seige mentality, that would be a bad omen. I wonder how much things like the west arming Ukraine can be used as propaganda by Putin to change the perceptions of Russian citizens.
Shouldn't laughTony Blair's knighthood is something given by the Queen. I dont know why. I hate the idea and people have objected it but there's nothing the British public can do about it.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-knighthood-britains-honours-system-is-broken
Anyway...I'm off topic. Sorry guys.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-knighthood-britains-honours-system-is-broken
Anyway...I'm off topic. Sorry guys.
Sadly, one of the mods who should be doing exactly this is fuelling such debate.
People know this is a thread about the current Ukraine invasion right?
Search the internet, you will find endless pages of condemnation. I am sure there are threads about it that are very active that you can use to discuss it somewhere, in the meantime people probably want to use the thread about Russia's invasion of Ukraine to discuss Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
It's not for me to question anyone who actually enlists to enter a warzone. Anyone doing that is doing it for something, whatever I think (comparison to Spain being the context). I was more talking about the principle being set by Parliament (can we legally go enlist anywhere now?).
Some people are trying to get information about the russian invasion here, please stop getting of topic. I'm pretty sure you guys can create a "is the west as bad as russia" topic somewhere but this is going sideways after 325 fairly good pages.
It is a fantasy I know, but it’s nice to dream.
‘Realistically’ these countries would never agree to having less than they’d need to cause the apocalypse so 500 seems like a fair amount. They can still kill everyone but in the meantime the running costs of the 6000 they no longer have can go elsewhere.
It’s a pipe dream. I think my main point is how in the hell did we get here in the first place?
Why have measures such as the UN and NATO been put into place to reduce the chances of WW3 but no one figured a maximum nuke count wasn’t a wise idea after two entire cities were levelled by them in 1945?
Personal honours have been awarded by the monarch since the 13th century and Parliament has never bothered to take them away from the King or Queen or regulate their use. Hence why nothing can be done about Blair.
I'll stop now.
Fair play to the EU - really stepped up the last few days.