Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[2mufc0]

The disinformation is that just because strikes happened elsewhere does not mean that they matter less here in Ukraine now. You should be even fecking angrier about what is starting to happen in Kharkiv right now, because it is beginning to look like Russia will consider doing what they did in Syria and turn Kharkiv into another Aleppo.

You are doing the Kremlin’s job for them if you are engaging in whataboutery. They actively want black people, brown people and white people from the West to divide on these issues and not present a united front.

Oh bore off. I've been vocal about Russian aggression for years and it won't stop at Ukraine. I really hope they don't take the same approach they took in Syria as it was really barbaric. The damage they did there was truly emotionally draining.

 

[TheReligion]

It is ridiculous to suggest that policy of indifference and inacting will help us avoid a new World War.

If anything, WW2 teaches us that it is precisely what may lead us into next war. Anyone not remembering well enough should repeat a history lesson on Edvard Beneš and Czechoslovakia in years leading up to WW2, and how European leading countries at that time were way more concerned in appeasing Hitler, hoping that by taking smaller countries around will eventually satisfy him enough.

Yes, the Europe is way more united now, but it is ridiculous to suggest not getting involved further will calm Putin down and cut his ambitions.

People are scared. I get that. I absolutely agree with you though.

Each country needs to stick together both behind the scenes and publicly in order to apply pressure on the Putin regime from every angle.

If it gets to the point where more action than sanctions are needed and supplying weapons, then this is on Putin and as with any bully everyone must step up and stand up for what is right.

Burying heads in the sand won’t work nor will trying to appease him due to fear.

Anyone who has been bullied will know this.

 

[MUFC OK]

Well, Putin is threatening war on the West's way of life.

In times of war, you expel the aggressor's citizens. Some people seem to be struggling to catch up.

Also, the lady in question was clearly very emotional, as anyone would be if their home is being bombed and you're seeing supporting with thoughts and prayers. I know NATO cannot fight but I sure as hell get the sentiment.

Well actually, keeping Russian assets and citizens in the UK may in itself be a nuclear deterrent. I am concerned that Putin is definitely willing to go that far and definitely agree with Johnson regarding no flight zone, and I scarcely ever agree with him.

Completely sympathise with the lady. It's an abhorrent sequence of events and we have to deal with this with tact, but we have to take the threats seriously and not escalate matters.

 

[spiriticon]

China are probably a bit ahead of the US on the despicable scale, I will give you that. Some of you in this thread are going on like this is a movie and it's scaremongering nonsense, fed to people by war mongering governments and institutions that are half the reason shit like this constantly happens in the world.

China doesn't have to go to war to extend it's sphere of influence. It only needs to up its propaganda levels on a scale which beats the West. Win the information war.

With so many Western people failing to see the dangers ahead, it looks like a very easy battle.

 

[Revan]

Failing to understand what is the point of Russia asking the US to withdraw their nuclear arsenal from Europe. While this made sense in the sixties, with ICBMs and SCBMs, what does it change? The US has the capability of throwing thousand of nuclear weapons from the US and oceans, so why it is important that they remove them from Germany, Holland, Belgium, Italy, and Turkey.

Or could it be that Russia really thinks that they can block ICBMs/SCBMs?

 

[sullydnl]

Given the understandable reluctance to directly intervene militarily, I guess the question for anyone who wants to see this end with Putin's downfall is what it will take in terms of sanctions or Russian casualties (either as a result of this invasion or insurgency) for a move against Putin from within Russia to be successful. And would the west have the appetite to maintain the sanctions neccessary to force that for long enough, even after Ukraine is taken.

 

[Smores]

Well if the sanctions don't stop Putin, are you arguing that we don't do anything else and that we should leave him to it?

Depends what you mean by stop, if he takes anywhere beyond Ukraine it'll be war. Otherwise we'll leave him to it, arming a resistance possiblly but that'll be the extent of it.

Why is that surprising? We leave countless dictators to it all the time, some are allies and some we sell them the arms to slaughter innocent civilians.

 

[RedC]

China feeling emboldened (by the West's inability to protect Ukraine) to take Taiwan would be enough to create a similar situation at the other end of the world.

So we are essentially supposed to progress towards nuclear holocaust to try and convince China not to try and take back Taiwan? I'm pretty sure they will do that either way, if they really want to. People genuinely seem to forget this isn't the 1940s anymore. This whole 'we will fight them on the beaches' bravado doesn't really stand the test of time when everyone has nukes.

 

[Varun]

Sanctions will almost certainly be eased even if Ukraine falls. Putin's entire war is based on 'the west will not end the world over Ukraine'. Like feck he's in any doubt that the sanctions that actually hit will be removed if he threatens again.

Shite as it is, even if he takes Ukraine, the only ones who'll suffer after it are the Ukrainians. Rest of the world will move on.

 

[IWat]

China are probably a bit ahead of the US on the despicable scale, I will give you that. Some of you in this thread are going on like this is a movie and it's scaremongering nonsense, fed to people by war mongering governments and institutions that are half the reason shit like this constantly happens in the world.

A bit? They're carrying out what if it isn't already, comes very close to being a genocide against the Uyghurs.
It's a state where restrictions on freedom of speech make Putin look like a cuddly bear.
I'd get thrown in prison for posting this from China on a Chinese website.
And it's going to be a military superpower, if it isn't already.

I don't want to de-rail the thread so I will stop here on China. But a bit? Come on.

 

[TheReligion]

Sanctions will almost certainly be eased even if Ukraine falls. Putin's entire war is based on 'the west will not end the world over Ukraine'. Like feck he's in any doubt that the sanctions that actually hit will be removed if he threatens again.

Shite as it is, even if he takes Ukraine, the only ones who'll suffer after it are the Ukrainians. Rest of the world will move on.

Sanctions won’t end anytime soon and they will get worse for Russia before better

 

[Rightnr]

China are probably a bit ahead of the US on the despicable scale, I will give you that. Some of you in this thread are going on like this is a movie and it's scaremongering nonsense, fed to people by war mongering governments and institutions that are half the reason shit like this constantly happens in the world.

Oh, I see. You have seen the light.

And you must be referring to the warmongering government of Germany.

And if you think we're deluded, look at what the Baltic States are telling you. Much the same they were saying about Russia 10 years ago, they're saying about China. China tried go threaten Lithuania because they didn't like being called out.

In 10 years, we may be discussing China in a similar way but the problem is that for willingly ignorant people they'll need another Ukraine otherwise it'd be Western propaganda all over. Maybe we should quote some posts from two weeks ago to provide some context to those that go on about impossible things that happen.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Yes, I choose to avoid the increasing likelihood that we could cease to exist as a country. Is that really a risk worth taking when it seems likely that Putin will be removed because very few countries in the world now want to deal with Russia in any capacity and he will be seen as responsible for that, and for the collapse of the rouble

Why do you think Putin will be removed? He wasn’t with his previous wars.

The sanctions will cripple Russia into submission or action to remove Putin

Simply aren’t sustainable for it in the medium to long term

The question is, how long do you define medium - long term?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Ukraine attempted to bomb that huge convoy to sh!t yet?

With what exactly?

 

[Sarni]

Well, my point is that I think people are vastly overestimating the chance of Putin getting removed, one way or another.

It's increasingly likely that Ukraine will fall and we'll be stuck in a new normal until Putin kicks the bucket. What if he's alive for another 10, 20 years?

We'll have whole generations growing with this maniac threatening a whole continent.

Now watching Zelensky and BBC seem to have got a bloke off the street to translate. Seriously, I appreciate the emotion but come on...

There's very little chance of him being alive in 5 let alone 10-20. But there's no guarantee his successors are not equally insane.

 

[IWat]

The question is, how long do you define medium - long term?

Weeks/months is my guess. Companies need to start running out of cash reserves etc.

 

[Suv666]

Sanctions will almost certainly be eased even if Ukraine falls. Putin's entire war is based on 'the west will not end the world over Ukraine'. Like feck he's in any doubt that the sanctions that actually hit will be removed if he threatens again.

Shite as it is, even if he takes Ukraine, the only ones who'll suffer after it are the Ukrainians. Rest of the world will move on.

It would be electoral suicide for every EU government if they try to ease or remove the sanctions.

 

[Varun]

Sanctions won’t end anytime soon and they will get worse for Russia before better

Once Putin gets what he wants, he'll come to the negotiations table and the west will ease off the sanctions gradually. Of course it'll be handled with the necessary optics but it'll happen.

If you are letting Ukrainians die because you're scared Putin will go nuclear, you'll 100% let Russians live for the same reason.

 

[Mihai]

With what exactly?

Through molotovs from Polish migs

 

[tomaldinho1]

Failing to understand what is the point of Russia asking the US to withdraw their nuclear arsenal from Europe. While this made sense in the sixties, with ICBMs and SCBMs, what does it change? The US has the capability of throwing thousand of nuclear weapons from the US and oceans, so why it is important that they remove them from Germany, Holland, Belgium, Italy, and Turkey.

Or could it be that Russia really thinks that they can block ICBMs/SCBMs?

Probably more Putin needs a ‘win’ and he can spin it that way.

 

[Rightnr]

There's very little chance of him being alive in 5 let alone 10-20. But there's no guarantee his successors are not equally insane.

I tend to agree but having policy based on hopes is not a good strategy.

Also, even if the next guy is the same except for military policy, I don't see things going back to the previous status quo. We've seen a tectonic shift over the past week.

It's a bit like Brexit, you won't get the same great terms once you have left once. There'll be a negotiation.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Weeks/months is my guess. Companies need to run out of cash reserves etc.

I’d say it’s more months, while there economy took a massive hit, There is trade opportunities in the Middle East and Asia. We are only really 5 days into this.

 

[Smithy89]

With what exactly?

Fair point, i didn't mean to take out the full thing obviously. But i can't imagine they're just going to let it get close to Kyiv.

 

[Varun]

Once Putin gets what he wants, he'll come to the negotiations table and the west will ease off the sanctions gradually. Of course it'll be handled with the necessary optics but it'll happen.

If you are letting Ukrainians die because you're scared Putin will go nuclear, you'll 100% let Russians live for the same reason.

@Suv666

To add to this, needs must really when it comes to selling something to the average Joe. If Ukrainians dying isn't worth the nuke threat can be sold, this is much easier because it's the Russian civilians at stake.

As i said, it'll be done with the right optics but there's very little chance Russians are thrown to the dogs long term once Putin has what he wants and comes to the negotiations table. Push comes to shove, he'll threaten attacking another nation or nukes again

 

[Bepi]

Oh, I see. You have seen the light.

And you must be referring to the warmongering government of Germany.

And if you think we're deluded, look at what the Baltic States are telling you. Much the same they were saying about Russia 10 years ago, they're saying about China. China tried go threaten Lithuania because they didn't like being called out.

In 10 years, we may be discussing China in a similar way but the problem is that for willingly ignorant people they'll need another Ukraine otherwise it'd be Western propaganda all over. Maybe we should quote some posts from two weeks ago to provide some context to those that go on about impossible things that happen.

If Putin has agreed his move with Xi, after years and years spent dividing the Western democracies from within (through extensive disinformation acts and by funding puppet politicians to sow discord), we may well have China moving to Taiwan in a few weeks or months as a double whammy to NATO / US UK / EU… a concerted way to redefine the geopolitical spheres of influence for the years to come. Are we expecting NATO to nuke both, in case?

 

[spiriticon]

Seriously if Putin really wins politically in this war, then I give up.

Next time Putin invades again (probably Baltics), i'll just continue eating my smashed avoacado on toast because I know we'll do feck all anyway.

 

[RedC]

A bit? They're carrying out what if it isn't already, comes very close to being a genocide against the Uyghurs.
It's a state where restrictions on freedom of speech make Putin look like a cuddly bear.
I'd get thrown in prison for posting this from China on a Chinese website.
And it's going to be a military superpower, if it isn't already.

I don't want to de-rail the thread so I will stop here on China. But a bit? Come on.

I was being facetious, my point is that everyone's 'enemy' is evil and does despicable things, you can imagine what the Chinese public is told about the US government. All major governments are varying degrees of evil to a point(places like China and Russia clearly worse than most, I don't think that even needs saying), but this whole notion of Russia must be stopped in Ukraine by any means necessary or else it will lead to the end of western civilisation is simply crazy, it's like something from a propaganda poster 100 years ago.

 

[IWat]

I’d say it’s more months, while there economy took a massive hit, There is trade opportunities in the Middle East and Asia. We are only really 5 days into this.

Yeah it depends on the company. Ones with higher levels of exports and already precarious financial positions will be the 1st dominos.

Most companies want to maximise their trade, if it was that easy for them to mob up a load more business in the ME and Asia, they'd have already done it I hope.

 

[Water Melon]

The majority

Once Putin gets what he wants, he'll come to the negotiations table and the west will ease off the sanctions gradually. Of course it'll be handled with the necessary optics but it'll happen.

If you are letting Ukrainians die because you're scared Putin will go nuclear, you'll 100% let Russians live for the same reason.

Sanctions will be softened significantly. Russian economy is pretty dead, and in the next couple of weeks it will go kaboom. By that time Zelenskyy could be dead already and Ukraine will be "demilitarized". When it gets worse Russia will play natural gas and wheat cards. Then they will start talking about Russia's citizens suffering because of their dictator and some of the sanctions will be lifted. The botox face will remain in charge of Russia.

 

[Revan]

There's very little chance of him being alive in 5 let alone 10-20. But there's no guarantee his successors are not equally insane.

Come on. He will be 73 in 5 years. More likely than not, he will be alive.

 

[Raoul]

Gifting stuff like airplanes to Ukraine is literally borderline declaring war yourself. Giving weapons is treading close enough but seriously, part of the effort should also be to deescalate.

you’ll be giving the mad man a reason on a plate to go legitimise his actions against everyone.

War is already happening now and will escalate further soon.

Once Putin gets what he wants, he'll come to the negotiations table and the west will ease off the sanctions gradually. Of course it'll be handled with the necessary optics but it'll happen.

If you are letting Ukrainians die because you're scared Putin will go nuclear, you'll 100% let Russians live for the same reason.

The sanction will remain in place indefinitely to weaken Putin at home , which is why they were enacted in the first place.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Through molotovs from Polish migs

The Ukrainian airforce is tiny, and would need a substantial number to even bother trying to up against Russia’s Air Force. I’d say Ukrane will keep any aircraft they receive for defence rather than offence.

 

[VorZakone]

Seriously if Putin really wins politically in this war, then I give up.

Next time Putin invades again (probably Baltics), i'll just continue eating my smashed avoacado on toast because I know we'll do feck all anyway.

Baltics are NATO though.

 

[Bepi]

I was being facetious, my point is that everyone's 'enemy' is evil and does despicable things, you can imagine what the Chinese public is told about the US government. All major governments are varying degrees of evil to a point(places like China and Russia clearly worse than most, I don't think that even needs saying), but this whole notion of Russia must be stopped in Ukraine by any means necessary or else it will lead to the end of western civilisation is simply crazy, it's like something from a propaganda poster 100 years ago.

Facetious my ar*e, at this stage: if you are not writing from Mars right now, you are clearly taking a part… which is perfectly legit, mind, whichever it is… yet a bit obnoxious over here at such a critical time for Ukraine first, for Europe later.

 

[Varun]

War is already happening now and will escalate further soon.



The sanction will remain in place indefinitely to weaken Putin at home , which is why they were enacted in the first place.

I disagree for the reasons I mentioned but yeah, let's see how it pans out.

 

[Revan]

The sanction will remain in place indefinitely to weaken Putin at home , which is why they were enacted in the first place.

That worked very well with Castro in Cuba, Chavez/Maduro in Venezuela, Kim in Korea, Khamenei in Iran and Sadam in Iraq.

They also did not have nukes. Well, Kim has some but not many and they are small.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

It’s depressing. I’ve unfortunately spiralled in to reading about this constantly and now I’m doing things like checking for bunkers in my immediate area or even more drastic, looking to leave the UK immediately. I work from home, as does my wife, so a move to somewhere remote for a couple of months is just about within possibility.

I know the above is absolutely stupid but thought I’d post it for anyone else going through the same so you know you’re not alone.

You're looking to leave the UK? A tad dramatic don't you think? The UK is under no threat whatsoever from Putin.

 

[do.ob]

So we are essentially supposed to progress towards nuclear holocaust to try and convince China not to try and take back Taiwan? I'm pretty sure they will do that either way, if they really want to. People genuinely seem to forget this isn't the 1940s anymore. This whole 'we will fight them on the beaches' bravado doesn't really stand the test of time when everyone has nukes.

We're progressing toward a conflict either way. Putin has gotten away with infiltrating our democratic systems, assassinating people on our grounds with chemical weapons, taking pieces of various countries and now he's razing Ukraine for daring to reach out to West. Appeasement has clearly failed and the Finns apparently reconsidering Nato membership as well as Germany re-arming itself is already proof that this realization has made it into policy. If the West doesn't put up a firm reaction now, that puts him into place at least to some degree, Putin will just come back for more later. I'm not saying that it has to be full on war, but it can't be that the West cowers before him every time he say nuclear either.

 

[UncleBob]

That worked very well with Castro in Cuba, Chavez/Maduro in Venezuela, Kim in Korea, Khamenei in Iran and Sadam in Iraq.

They also did not have nukes. Well, Kim has some but not many and they are small.

Not sure how either of these are comparable to Russia

 

[ShoePolish]

Given the understandable reluctance to directly intervene militarily, I guess the question for anyone who wants to see this end with Putin's downfall is what it will take in terms of sanctions or Russian casualties (either as a result of this invasion or insurgency) for a move against Putin from within Russia to be successful. And would the west have the appetite to maintain the sanctions neccessary to force that for long enough, even after Ukraine is taken.

Probably another bloody revolution is needed, with somebody from the inside creating a coalition that people can get behind. Seems unlikely though, as he's got opposition already jailed or dead, and common folk who are not afraid to speak out, quickly put down. Police is behind him and not afraid to get their hands dirty.