Lavrov is claiming that the west is preparing for war and that leaders of the west is thinking of starting a nuclear war. They are propably implementing Martial Law in Russia soon, and preparing their population for that I think.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
yep you‘ve had some stellar contributions to this thread yourself:
you are really fcking stupid arent you.
And this is before you were schooled before the invasion kicked off by Florida Man.
It might not to you but clearly this conflict has an associated impact on others, you really shouldn't be denying the validity of those feelings/stressors.
I know anything that comes across as anti-west riles some up but a bit of empathy and understanding wouldn't be the worst thing.
personally I don’t think anyone is or was arguing it in terms of ‘objectively’ or that it is shifting focus. It’s possibly to be concerned or care about many atrocities and I don’t think it’s wrong to point out the hypocrisies or personal feelings of certain groups or people. Plus many of the issues and concerns that Muslims face aren’t conflicts that have happened years ago but issues that are still ongoing and are a very real part of daily life. But that’s for another thread and I’d echo @Zlatattack that it’s best to discuss that in another thread.
Do not let anyone guilt you into feeling bad, it's a valid point and the discourse has a place because it Puts into perspective the hypocrisy of being behind fighting a war between other countries, when it's in fact illegal in this country to do so, and an act of terrorism to pick up a weapon on a battlefield anywhere else in the world.
I couldn't hope to get it the way you do of course but I absolutely understand and agree with what you're saying. I hate the way these politicians rip people apart using religion for their gains. What's happening here was well under the current govt infuriates me so much that I don't even feel anything for my country anymore. Even Hindus who hate what's happening can't speak about it openly or in social media so I can totally understand how bad it is for Muslims. It's just that what's happening in Ukraine is happening now and it doesn't feel right to bring other issues into it.
Could be true. Russia didn't throw their most modern tanks at this, they used a few older tanks and lots of lighter armour presumably because they knew Ukraine would be fighting with outdated Soviet era equipment, and they didn't think they would put up much of a fight. They didn't count on all this new equipment being donated that can cut through a BTR like it's cardboard.
Can we leave the what ifs and hypocrisy debate till after Russia gets the feck out of Ukraine?
Yes, it's clear the West hasn't done everything right in the past years, but that doesn't give Russia an excuse to bomb the feck out of civilians.
Yes, it's clear the West hasn't done everything right in the past years, but that doesn't give Russia an excuse to bomb the feck out of civilians.
Who’s saying it gives an excuse for Russia to invade? Has anyone said that?
Insulting another member
If we are not trying to excuse them, then we should leave the meta thinking to after the war, or the other 'Wataboutwhatever" thread.
I addressed all of this in a previous comment. Don't mean this to sound snippy, just that I addressed these points earlier.
Its not an excuse. Its just my understanding of why Russia wanted to invade. I didnt say it was morally correct and defended Russian blatant aggression.
And yes NATO needs to back off. No superpower will like their sphere of influence reduced. US has historically reacted like that so Russia response is very much in line with that.
As far as Ukraine is concerned, i couldn’t care less (in normal time) so my observation is not based on emotion. Both NATO and Russia are responsible for this and Russia should not have invaded and is much larger guilty party. But it was put in a very difficult position with NATO expanding eastward. There are no black and white answer here.
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Nothing new in that. They violate or threaten to violate UK airspace on a regular basis. And have done for many years.
We send our fighter jet up to so called escort them away, eventually.
It is just a game for them to continually test reaction times.
Sweden had the highly capable JAS Gripen fighter jet. So I am sure they are more than capable of maintaining Swedish airspace.
Honestly don’t know what their goal is anymore. Are they actually trying to start war vs NATO already or just acting tough?
Jesus you're really a pain in the ass in every topic, aren't you?
I second that
Agree with this...there is definitely room to care about all the bad stuff in the world. I just don't feel that a thread talking about this specific conflict and the loss of life associated with it is the right one. But that's just my take.
I suspect they'd suffer more in an all out war between Russia and the West which would be one of the main alternatives to economic sanctions.
No, disagree. Some of the incidents that have been raised are 100% related to this conflict and should be discussed as so. The treatment of non-white foreign nationals for one, the foreign fighters joining the Ukrainian resistance etc.
I just didn’t like how you somehow twisted his opinion, whether you find it relevant or not, to somehow make it out that he was trying to take “advantage” of this situation to make a point and push and agenda and how you labelled it as shameful. I think that’s incredibly dismissive and disrespectful if I’m honest. I’m all fine with you saying it’s not on the topic of this Ukraine situation (although I disagree to some extent - because we are talking about foreign fighters going abroad to fight, which is directly relevant to what’s happening), was just unnecessary (in my view) to take that swipe at the end.
I think this has to do with controlling their own population and protect Putins regime, more than wanting a world war.
This is the guy you are agreeing with.
Yeah I reckon the end game for this might actually be Russia ending up completely isolated with their population largely hating the West, except for the lucky ones who are able to escape. Whatever happens in Ukraine for the rest of war they will spin it regardless.
Admittedly, I didn’t go that far back.
Sure. But there's also comparisons to Kashmir, Palestine, Yemen, Muslims, Christians..etc etc etc
There's another time/thread for that.
The truth is that this is a bigger problem for Europe because it is in Europe. All wars are bad, but some are worse for others.
Why can't people discuss what they want, when they want? I really don't get this view.. It's like a skewed twisted version of something which was once liberal.
Yes there’s a separate thread for that discussion in detail, but it’s usually raised after people notice the double standards in reporting, and the treatment of non-white foreign nationals etc.
NATO is not expanding east. Free and democratic countries are choosing to apply, note that word, apply to join NATO. As well as applying to j the EU in many cases. So why is Putin not choosing to attack the EU. Answer. He knows what the outcome would be. And instead, has chosen to invade Ukraine because he believes it is an easier target. It is typical bullying tactics by someone who so obviously feels completely insecure.
They can, there's a separate thread for it! I read it too and agree with some of it.
I do think it's out of order to use an ongoing humanitarian crisis as a springboard to discuss something else that's not directly relevant in that specific thread, as I think it draws attention away from the central issue. Which is, when all is said and done, killing and destruction on a massive scale. Maybe shameful was a little strong, but I do think it's out of order. The poster in question agreed it's one for another thread, though, and I also said that I wasn't trying to minimize the significance of some of the double standards in reporting etc.
Is he struggling to remember what they've been saying in the past. They've been threatening with nuclear weapons since they started the invasion and now he's going on about how it's the west talking about nuclear war.
I been a pos to assholes in this thread. Anyone I have assaulted has deserved it. I don't give a shit anymore. Redcafe is a terrible place nowadays. The fact that you were best newbie promoted is a testament to it. The mods let anyone spread any lies and anti-vax bs and conspiracy theories as much as possible. They let hansifickmich troll the United forum. They let Russian trolls spread their bs, heck one of the mods is a russian troll pos.
There is nothing good about redcafe anymore after SteveJ and Olly have left and Hectic taking a break, mockney or brwned not writing much. I don't give a shit if I am banned. If I see an asshole in this thread I will call them out if I want to.
I read that Lavrov allegedly tried to resign in the past but was refused. If true, maybe it'd be interesting to get him to defect. Probably too optimistic, mind.
The way his war in Ukraine goes and considering that the economy is already tumbling, I doubt he could pull that off even if he wanted to. They can't even get the logistics in Ukraine right.
I'm not an expert by any means but so far this war hasn't left the impression that Europe has to be afraid of a conventional attack by Russia. It's the nuclear threat that's frightening but if it comes to this, all is lost anyway.
I think Putin has already bitten off more than he can chew and we just have to watch how he chokes on it. And in the end not back Russia too much into a corner so that they still have too much to lose to do anything stupid.
Is he struggling to remember what they've been saying in the past. They've been threatening with nuclear weapons since they started the invasion and now he's going on about how it's the west talking about nuclear war.
They are not even trying to have a coherent communication. It'd be pretty cartoonish if it wasn't so real.
Most likely propoganda, he doesn't really seem like he'd be resigning over this does he. Foreign secretaries world over tend to be absent any ethics, they're more than happy to spin and lie.